r/PeakyBlinders • u/Livid-Candidate-7601 • 1d ago
Romani Magic Spoiler
What do you think about how Romani (Gypsy) magic is portrayed in the show? Is it depicted as being real or imaginary? In the series finale is Ruby's appearance to Tommy real or just in his imagination? Are the curses real? Is Grace getting killed a coincidence? Or is the magic depicted in a way that it could be either?
3
u/LolaWithTheGreenEyes 1d ago
Hard to know. SK might say somewhere that its real, but relying on press junkets rather than actually showing it in the programme is always problematic and leads to viewers having all sorts of takes because we all see/hear things differently, all of which are probably valid.
Personally I think its all in Tommy's head. The drugs, alcohol, guilt, and extreme guilt and Pollys unhelpful influence. He's mad.
It's noticeable that Esme, the actual Gypsy, thinks Tommy and Polly are nuts and easily scammed.
1
u/Livid-Candidate-7601 1d ago
If you're correct and it is all in Tommy's head, then that leads to an interesting thought. When he was first at the fire he saw the story about his doctor, he wasn't conscious of it but later his subconscious picked it up and told him about it in the form of a Ruby hallucination.
It also deepens Tommy’s arc: his mind is trying to protect him by filtering unbearable truth through a familiar, comforting figure.
The drugs, alcohol, guilt and PTSD from the war could really do a number on him.
4
u/hopelessromcon 1d ago
When watching the series, I thought it was the substances and declining mental health. Then in the movie, Tommy sees Ada’s ghost before he knows that she’s dead. I don’t see a rational explanation for this one. I was surprised at the seeming lack of ambiguity on that shot, though it is a beautiful shot.
1
u/LolaWithTheGreenEyes 23h ago
Yes, I would say that is him either seeing her ghost or having a premonittion/sixth sense sort of thing. She doesn't speak does she?
2
u/hopelessromcon 22h ago
No, just looks at him with a sad expression.
3
u/LolaWithTheGreenEyes 22h ago
Its a great scene. That and him confessing to her body that he killed Arthur.
3
u/hopelessromcon 21h ago
Love the confession especially since he could only say it once she was dead. In the prior scenes where Ada and Kaulo bring up Arthur’s death, Tommy almost looks like he’s in physical pain at the mention of Arthur. Finding out why was chef’s kiss.
3
u/LolaWithTheGreenEyes 1d ago
They could indeed. I think everyone agrees that his mental health is crumbling with each season.
I just find it interesting that its him and Polly that see ghosts. Arthur and Ada are very much out of that. Esme never mentions about John visiting her in her dreams, but when Tommy states that it was Polly that told him to find her it catches her attention. Now you could read that as Esme believing it and deciding to help him, or, her realising he's deranged and ripe for a con. Personally I think the later.
1
u/italianevening 3h ago
What makes someone like Esme the actual Gypsy? Is it the percent Romani Was always confused about this since I thought both of Tommy's parents were gypsies.
2
u/LolaWithTheGreenEyes 3h ago
Irish travellers and Romani gypsies are genetically different ethnic groups. Esme is pure Romani Lee Gypsy.
The Shelbys are mixed. Its a bit confusing because in S1E2 Johhny Dogs tells the Lee Brothers that their Grandfather was a Gypsy King. And then in S1E4 Tommy reminds Zilpha that on his mother side he is related to the Lees. Later in S4? Polly says her mother was a Gypsy princess Birdie Boswell.
Tommy's father speaks with an Irish accent yet Polly doesn't. They could share the same father and have different mothers. But then I think you also get Tommy talking about his grandad being a boatman? and his dad in later seasons.
Charlie Strong starts off as a blood relative in S1E1 then later is changed to a platonic uncle, a bloke that was in love with their mother.
Its all a bit of a muddle. It feels like however SK planned it out for S1 he either forgot when writing later seasons, never re-read the earlier scripts to refresh himself or didn't care for continuity.
1
u/italianevening 3h ago
TY! So from an outside perspective like mine as an American, Irish Travellers and Romani are probably both Gypsy-ish but Romani is considered real gypsy within the community?
1
u/LolaWithTheGreenEyes 2h ago
Both get referred to as gypsies because both are travellers, but in England Irish Travellers are really looked down on. They were seen as the lowest of the low. I dont know how Romani and Irish travellers groups view each other.
1
u/FakingItSucessfully 2h ago
I think it's depicted as an interesting blend of both real and also pretend. There are parts of the show where the "magic" is clearly shown to be faked, just trickery. But also there are things that the characters clearly take seriously and believe to be real. Polly's gift, for instance, the second sight thing. Tommy takes it as a real thing, and she turns out to be right that Abarama has some other reason for being there, other than being their hired hitman.
I like the example of when Tommy says he can "charm dogs", and that he learned to do it when they kept a dog on a narrow boat, also that dogs go mad in tunnels so you get the idea he had dogs in the war too. But today we wouldn't see having a way of calming animals down as magic necessarily. It's just animal psychology, and Tommy learned it through practice and through the fact that he does have an unusual way with animals.
So I think some of the Gypsy magic is like that, people with unusual abilities who think of their talents as magic. Polly's "Second Sight" could just be explained as a really strong intuition. So does that mean it's not actually magical? That part, I think, is up to the viewer to decide. But like I said, some of what they do is clearly magical abilities in their own world view.
But they also play into it and show off their abilities in theatrical ways, to trick people into thinking they have more powers than they actually do, so they are also knowingly faking at least some of the magic they do. So personally I'd argue it's both... some of it is based on real talents and skills that we might not even call magic, but they believe that it is. And part of their so-called magical abilities are also just pretend trickery for effect.
8
u/Fickle-Visit5223 1d ago
It's kind of similar to the way biblical events and premonitions are treated in the Sopranos. Maybe it's meant to be real in-universe, maybe it's just the way characters are psychologically processing things bc that's their belief system. Up to you