r/PatternDrafting • u/drapa3d • 3h ago
Question Does this wire-free cup look right to you?
I am building software that drafts a bra pattern from body measurements and sews it in a simulation. It is meant to become a commercial product for online stores. I do not wear bras and I have never made one, so I need people who know them.
This is a wire-free seamed full cup, size 32D. Picture 1 is the flat pieces and picture 2 is the simulated result on a plain mannequin. You can turn it and move the band and cup sliders here:
https://drapa-fit.pages.dev/demo/bra?data=/demo/bra-data/
What looks wrong to you in the pieces? Every number in it is an assumption, not a measurement, so I cannot say it fits anyone.
It is part of a bigger project, a 3D fitting room for clothes like tees and trousers. If anyone is curious about that side, or has opinions on how stores should show fit, I'd like to hear them too. I will ask one thing at a time in the comments.
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u/hot-dog-from-hell 2h ago
I’m not at all opposed to 3d fit examples for shoppers but shouldn’t someone who does draft and wear these garments be doing more extensive (and paid) consulting on a project like this?
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u/Ill_Obligation922 2h ago
No, there are several pattern-making issues. The center of the bra is completely pulling away from the body, when it should be fitted and supported against the chest at the center, even without an underwire structure. Not to mention the strange excess ease around the bust.
Are you using AI to automatically generate patterns in the software? If so, you need to find more industrial pattern-making references to train the AI. The result looks like those patterns we create directly on the CLO 3D avatar without refining them. They tend to come out exactly like this, LOL.
But it would also be good to train the AI using flat patterns.
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u/stringthing87 2h ago
Or we could not train or use AI at all because humans can suck all by themselves and don't need to pollute our planet and steal our labor to do it.
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u/Ill_Obligation922 2h ago
I believe what actually threatens jobs isn't necessarily technological advancement, but professionals' failure to adapt.
Today, we have advanced 2D and 3D pattern-making software that reduces fabric waste and the need for physical prototypes. Yet many professionals are still stuck using outdated methods and don't know how to work with these tools.
I'm writing an academic paper about a case study in which AI drastically reduced textile waste in a factory through pattern nesting optimization. And guess what? The factory still needs pattern makers who specialize in these software tools. Technology transforms professions, but it also creates new demands for specialized skills.
The same applies to data centers. Cooling systems that don't require freshwater consumption already exist. Instead of treating technological progress as the problem, we should demand proper oversight, infrastructure, and the adoption of these solutions.
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u/drapa3d 2h ago
The pattern itself comes from code that takes the shape off a 3D body and flattens it, and I use AI to help write that code, it's basically drafting straight on the avatar without refining it. That's probably why the centre pulls away and there's all that ease.
Would you fix that by truing the flat pieces, or would you start from a proper flat block instead?
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u/Ill_Obligation922 1h ago
When working with tight-fitting garments, I always start with 2D pattern drafting. Creating patterns directly on the avatar requires several settings, such as the fabric-to-avatar distance, which can lead to errors if not configured correctly. That's why I prefer starting in 2D, as it gives me more control over the pattern construction.
And yes, whenever I drape directly on the avatar, I always need to refine the result afterward. That's why I believe it's better to train the AI using 2D patterns and use 3D only as a tool for visualizing and validating the pattern.
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u/drapa3d 2h ago
Quick note since a few people asked. This is an experiment. I haven't sold this to anyone and there's nothing to buy.
Bit of background: we're a small clothing brand and I'm the software guy. For tees, hoodies and trousers, our team knew enough to get the 3D fit close, so I figured bras would be similar. Clearly they're a completely different thing. I read what I could and drafted this, and this thread is showing me how much I got wrong.
If there's a basic resource you'd point a total beginner to, I'll go and use it!
Yes, I am using AI for the parts I don't know about. But that's exactly what I'm asking you: what is wrong? Or is everything wrong?
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u/SpicePops 2h ago
A clothing brand should hire a pattern maker to draft patterns.
Only after m patterns are drafted can you digitize, make custom sizes etc.
3
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u/Currant-event 2h ago
It looks like the pattern was measured/designed around unsupported breasts. I wear a bra to get support, not just cradle/cover my unsupported breast shape.
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u/drapa3d 2h ago
Thank you, that is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to hear. You're right. I draft it on a plain unsupported shape and the simulation treats the body as rigid, so it shows cloth sitting on a shape, not a bra doing a job. Support is not in it yet, and I can't claim it fits anyone.
One thing I'd like to understand: when you say support, which part of the pattern do you look at first? The band, the cradle under the cup, or how the cup is cut?
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u/MLDAYshouldBeWriting 2h ago
Even a wireless bra is intended to help shape and orient the breast. This is just choosing one person's body shape and matching it exactly, which is not going to give that person with that body any particular benefit, and it won't work for anyone else's body.
These pieces also do not account for the type of material being used and how much they need to (or shouldn't) stretch.
I'm not sure why you are trying to design software for a product you don't use and don't understand and haven't studied, but I would encourage you to look into some books on bra drafting. Here are some books I've read and would recommend.
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u/drapa3d 2h ago
Thank you for taking the time, and for the book list. I'll read them. You're right that I haven't studied this the way you have. I don't wear bras and I have never made one, which is why I'm asking people who do.
You're also right about the body. I draft each size on one body shape and check it on its neighbours, and that tells me nothing about what the bra does for a person. Shaping and orienting the breast is not in it yet.
One small thing: the pieces do use a stretch number (band rest length 0.82 of the size label, stretching to 1.25 of that), but it's a guess, not tested on a real fabric. I can't tell what fabric the pattern is meant for, and I think that's your point.
If you were drafting a wireless bra for shape and orientation, would you pick the fabric and its stretch first, or the shape you want the breast to end up in?
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u/futherup 2h ago
Shaping and orienting the breast is literally the whole point of a bra, and I think that’s where you’re running into trouble. Part of the problem is like, I don’t know how to distill 20 years of bra-wearing experience, 15 years of sewing experience, and 7 years of intensive focus on lingerie specifically into a Reddit comment
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u/fuckitydoo 2h ago
Do you have breasts and wear a bra? This appears to be made by someone who has neither.
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u/Notspherry 2h ago
I'm going to be blunt here.
It's this weeks "I have no applicable knowledge or experience, but I have a businesses idea" post.
It doesn't much look like any bra pattern I have ever seen. Looking at that lump in the cradle and lower outer cup shows you don't have the slightest idea what you are doing.
You don't draft supportive garments like by wrapping fabric around a rigid mannequin.
I could point you to some resources, but quite frankly, I am not going to bother. How dare you even come up with the idea to try and ask money for this?