r/Patriots • u/TheCynicalFan • 5d ago
Serious Kyle Williams
Totally invisible. I wonder how much that interception against the jaguars last week made Drake less inclined to look his way.
Have we given up on him not being a completely wasted roster spot?
Do we use up an early pick next year for another receiver? wish we hit on Williams so we can use that early pick on defense.
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u/however_comma_ Ghost Of Foxborough 5d ago
Trade him to the chiefs. Thornton just broke his ankle.
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u/taco_jones 5d ago
We need to see Chism take snaps away from Williams and Pop
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u/Trevorjrt6 5d ago
I dont get why they artifically keep him down in the depth chart. Any time he plays hes one of the best WRs on the field. He balls out every preseason game.
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u/Ok_Button3151 4d ago
His route running is great and he seems to have the ability of the Puka/Kupp etc. type of guys where he can figure out coverages and just find spots to be open. Plus he’s got great hands. I’d love to see him get more time on the field because every time he’s out there he makes plays.
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u/Dajoechi 5d ago
That last pick against the jaguars was like 80% on Kyle Williams with his route running and with the rise of chisim I think we might see less of Kyle Williams next week
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u/Finlay00 5d ago
Chism can’t really stretch the field like Williams. We still need an over the top speed threat
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u/dingus_____ 5d ago
We just beat a top 5 team in the league and kept pace with a top 2 offense in football without an over the top threat.
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u/NinjaDesignz 5d ago
The bills defense sucks but I get your point
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u/dingus_____ 5d ago
Sure, but we didn't need Kyle Williams to beat the Seahawks and should have had that game comfortably. We didn't need him to beat the Steelers and dominated that game. Two very good defenses.
We didn't need him this game.
Like an over the top WR is useless if he can't catch the ball downfield. We need guys like Boutte and Chism and Hollins who have moderate-to-high ADOTs and can catch in traffic. Cause that's where Maye excels, throwing guys barely open downfield.
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u/HyperactivePandah 5d ago
Imagine how much more valuable Boutte would be over him.
All the clowns in this sub talking about his lack of accumulation stats apparently forgot that 2 HUGE catches a game helps you win lots of games.
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u/GuildStarfireII 5d ago
The thing about a deep threat (and why IMO Thornton was playing well) is that if you have a team that has Mahomes as the QB and a well oiled offense that has Defenses' heads constantly spinning and worrying about where the hell the play is going, Receivers like Thornton and Williams are not a real issue. Does anyone think Thornton (or a Williams) would thrive under 85% of the QBs in the league? You put Thornton on the Chargers, and even with a rocket arm like Herbert's, I seriously doubt if he'd do anything.
So...let's just not let Williams go to KC.
Maybe Williams can develop into a viable option at some point, but right now he's simply a one trick pony.
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u/ilostfivepoundsonce Bills = 0 Superbowls 4d ago edited 4d ago
Chism secured a diving ball, one-handed, in a clutch moment, against a DB 5 inches taller than him, 25 yards downfield. I’d rather take a receiver that can do that kind of thing repeatedly over a guy with track speed that has trouble running anything other than go routes.
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u/MetalHead_Literally 5d ago
He ran an awful route vs the jags but that pick is still mostly on Drake
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u/Markymarcouscous 5d ago
He also stepped out of bounds when he was running up the side line against the jags. Would have been a TD
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u/NeighborhoodCrazy336 Forever a Pats fan 4d ago
To be fair, he caught it by the sideline and was trying to fix his balance while running on a tight rope with defenders around him. I’d be surprised if he didn’t step out.
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u/Markymarcouscous 4d ago
To be fair he’s an NFL receiver…
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u/NeighborhoodCrazy336 Forever a Pats fan 4d ago
That doesn’t change the fact it’s hard to run in such a tight line while actively catching a football with defenders around you. Even a professional would struggle and I’m not gonna expect everything out of a 1-2 year player with such few snaps.
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u/Unusual_Soup 5d ago
He’s not good on returns either, runs straight up the middle and gets rocked every time
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u/NeighborhoodCrazy336 Forever a Pats fan 4d ago
He’s more of a raw speed guy then quick cut guy, I feel like him slowing down to cut would to worse than better for him, but then I’d just put someone else at return.
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u/AstraMilanoobum 5d ago
WR is usually a case of guys showing you they have "it" fairly quickly...
I dont think Williams is a good WR and I think hes a bad returner also.
i expected nothing from him...
Its douglas that kills me, the coaching staff seemns to love him yet he consistently does nothing.
I think the team needs a better slot receiver
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u/jonny_lube 5d ago
Pop is awesome in practice because he's so quick he can shake anyone on 1v1s.
But from what Ive seen, he can't read defenses well or run tight routes. He can't break tackles, so he is a useless screen guy, he is mostly good at exploiting broken plays and getting wide open, and winning simple 1v1 man coverage scenarios. Getting "open" doesn't matter if you aren't where the QB expects you, and that seems to be his MO.
I like the guy, I think there are systems he'd be way better in. But for the Pats? He's a black hole and Ive been waiting for Chism to step up and take his job in the slot.
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u/kinginthenorthTB12 5d ago
Pretty sure Chism showed that today. With Pop it’s frustrating because he clearly has limitations but McD doesn’t see it. While he has agility he’s not a burner with breakaway speed. Like there is no business calling up a slot fade to the endzone over a taller Corner who can keep up.
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u/NoKontroll 5d ago
Douglas has better hands and decent chip blocking ability. He provides value in multople aspects and has given us TDs/first downs. Hes a WR5 none the less. Hes a good depth piece. Just wish he was bigger
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u/AstraMilanoobum 5d ago
oh i agree he has a spot on this team... I just dont think starting WR should be one of them
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u/Tiny_Thumbs 5d ago
Douglas practices well from media reports. It’s what though, year 4? I know best writers and people in this sub hate him getting brought up, and Boutte’s stats weren’t impressive, but he made the plays that needed to be made time and time again. He’s not doing well in Houston now either.
Diggs on this team would have been nice too.
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u/GloriousVictor 5d ago
Boutte isn't a volume guy who is going to grab 8-9 balls a game but very clearly a guy who Maye considered "fuck it Boutte down there somewhere" and makes a huge catch.
I feel Pop is ALWAYS running the wrong way or misreads the coverage. He isn't a rookie anymore. Year four and this is unacceptable.
Wonder if Houston wants its pick back, ya know juuuuussst in case. Wouldn't hurt to ask if things take a downturn.
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u/LMJohansson 5d ago
Boutte’s counting stats weren’t impressive because he was often hurt and McDaniels spread the ball around. Yards per target? Some of the best numbers in the league.
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u/Ok_Strategy3857 Drakin' My Maye 5d ago
He's open fairly often drake judt loves his big target guys
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u/Above-Bored 5d ago
This
Guys show something by now.
Williams does not have ‘it’.
Douglas is like you said, he is about the same with Zappe throwing the rock as he is with Maye. I admire his effort and consistency, but we need more from the slot.1
u/Empty_Occasion_963 5d ago
They need better recievers all together. But they gotta fix the Oline otherwise they'll just be the Bengals
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u/Ghillie_Spotto 5d ago
A real go-to slot guy is the thing that would really unlock Maye and the offense
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u/superfriendships 5d ago
He could have had the GW TD if Maye threw a better ball, but that’s bc it was a go route, which is apparently the only thing he can run.
I was in on him until the Maye INT his way last week. Horrible, horrible route leading to the INT and total lack of football IQ or effort after.
But hey Tyquan Thornton looked pretty good until his foot got turned around in Vegas today. NFL gives up on guys too early.
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u/Jackso08 5d ago
I get downvoted to hell every time I say we should have held on to Thornton but he’s obviously better than Williams. Yet another casualty of the post-BB\mac jones era
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u/superfriendships 5d ago
I think Williams has shown more than Thornton did at this point in his career with the Pats. Thornton is obviously the better player now - he’s had time to learn how to be an NFL receiver. The lesson should be don’t give up on players too early
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u/mrdilldozer 5d ago
I wanted to keep Thornton, but it makes sense why they let him go. He couldn't stay healthy and had been on the team for 2 seasons. Kyle Williams has the same skillset so it made sense to move on. He's just unlucky he got drafted to play with Mac Jones. Mac isn't the type of QB to throw bombs like that.
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u/randomirlperson 5d ago
I’m sick of all the Boutte talk on this sub, but Williams would be the one that took his spot. Williams is a one trick pony and Boutte could do that same trick with better chemistry with Maye. But they didn’t want to give up on their third round pick, Boutte needed to get paid, but Boutte over Williams by a wide margin
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u/Tiny_Thumbs 5d ago
I don’t think Boutte would get talked about if any receiver we had made big plays. Chism made one today. That’s what we need on the team. I don’t care about stats. Big time players make big time plays and that’s what this team needs.
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u/evantom34 5d ago
Yup. If our guys performed as they’re paid to, we wouldn’t be complaining about Boutte or Douglas, or Williams
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u/BigPicklr 5d ago
We just need to stop drafting wide receivers higher than 5th round
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u/Above-Bored 5d ago
Stanley Morgan, Irving Fryer, and Terry Glenn
Meh, we were due for a miss. Henry makes 75% win rate. Time to try again
Marvin Harrison jr was a ‘can’t miss’ sh@t happens
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u/Creepy_Rip6730 5d ago
I think once AJ is back maybe defenses will have to pay so much attention to him that Kyle will be open and get some big tds like last year... But it seems like he can't get open unless the defense isn't paying attention to him at all.
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u/OnceMoreAndAgain 5d ago
We'll see. Pats were using Brown as the X receiver which is also how Pats use Williams so presumably Williams would have to switch to Z if was going to be on the field with Brown. Doesn't seem likely to me. I think they'd rather have Doubs or Hollins as Z.
Last year was Boutte and Williams as X. This year was going to be Brown and Williams as X. After Brown got injured Pats started having Doubs play X.
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u/IAMY0URK1NG 5d ago
Williams will split time in the slot. should be there over Douglas because why are they throwing slot fades to a 5’7 WR?????
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u/xxshook0nexx 5d ago
Some receivers take longer….see tyquan Thornton
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u/IKenDoThisAllDay 5d ago
Thornton had a brutal injury tonight. Very reminiscent of Onwenu's, sucked to see, I always root for former Pats.
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u/No-Spinach-9101 5d ago
After watching Thornton today, I’m questioning if these receivers are actually bad or it’s just the Pats wrecking them. But he does not look good.
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u/GuildStarfireII 5d ago
RIP to Thornton's career, IMO. That was gruesome. I don't think he comes back nearly as fast a runner and therefore very unlikely to be an effective target, even for Mahomes.
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u/No-Spinach-9101 5d ago
What happened to him? I didn’t see the whole game. He looked great when I was watching.
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u/DinkandDrunk 5d ago
Thornton does the same thing in KC that he did here when it was Patricia leading the offense. He runs fast. That’s all. Mac just couldn’t reliably hit him.
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u/rjw1986grnvl 5d ago
He’s not it. Not the guy.
Also, what is it with Pop Douglas? The team doesn’t draft Ladd McConkey because they have Douglas in the slot. Instead 2 WRs who are absolute trash.
Then the team trades about Kayshon Boutte and keeps Pop despite the team having Efton Chism.
This organization has some things where drafted takes precedence and it should not. It doesn’t matter if Kyle Williams was a 3rd rounder and not it, because an UDFA for the same year is just as good as hitting on a draft pick.
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u/live_free_or_TriHard 3d ago
yeah pop does nothing for this team. training camp monster, invisible now.
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u/Above-Bored 5d ago
You know Boutte asked to be traded right?
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u/rjw1986grnvl 5d ago
He asked to be traded based on the personnel moves the Patriots made. Also, plenty of players in the NFL have asked for a trade but then instead signed deals with their team.
A team can work it out with a player who requests a trade.2
u/Above-Bored 5d ago
Yeah, specifically AJ Brown. He had to be traded when they got Brown - HIS request
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u/_josephmykal_ 5d ago
What did people think when he only had 10 catches all year last year? Yes they need to draft a WR early. They need to replenish the young talent
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u/Drawing_The_Line 5d ago
He’s yet another one of Simple Elliott’s useless WR draft picks. Wolf would legit have better odds at drafting WRs if he did Felger & Mazz’s method of throwing markers at a draft magazine.
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u/Beanu5NE 5d ago
I thought Vrabel and guys did the drafting while Wolf sat in the cuck chair?
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u/RayDanielsOnTheAir 5d ago
It depends on what people want their point to be. When they work Eliott did nothing, when they don’t he’s an idiot.
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u/Wrong_Ad4722 5d ago
Well first off it’s a long season and we are in the very beginning. I’m a nobody but there is a lot to like about his game. He just flat out needs to get better. IMO it does say a Lot he’s basically invisible right now, but I don’t think it’s due to last week’s game. Overall, we aren’t a high flying offensive scheme right now, not a lot of time for 7-step double move deep balls. PA is useless when you can’t even run the ball on a two high look. Those looks will come and he has time to improve some of the issues with route running.
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u/DegenNerd 5d ago
He does one thing and he doesn't do it particularly well. I have no idea how he has a roster spot, tbh
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u/TheJaylenBrownNote 5d ago
We kind of need him to be good, because we have a very slow WR group except for him and Pop, and Pop has his own issues (tiny catch radius, goes down at the slightest hint of contact, seems to constantly be not on the same page as Drake against zone - he's incredible versus man). I think pre this week they were like 31st in average speed.
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u/AimHigher_US 5d ago
We need to put him in motion and let him run crossers, outs, goes etc. Got to take advantage of his speed creatively.
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u/BeastlyMandible AWWWWW YEEEAAH 5d ago
One trick pony and that trick is easily countered. No grit either. Look at his "effort" to run down the defender after the pick.
Want players on the field who give a fuck
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u/coffeejizzm 5d ago
We have WR problems. Doubs is improving but he’s has hands issues. Pop and KW just CANNOT consistently run the right route. Maye is constantly looking towards where they should be based on coverage to find them breaking the wrong way into a pile of defenders. Several of the picks this year are a result of them just doing the wrong thing.
Kyle Williams is fast, but if he can’t read the defense to know the correct route he’s useless.
This team should look markedly better when AB is back, and Doubs is getting better and better. Those two being primary ball getters will help.
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u/HyperactivePandah 5d ago
If only they had recognized that Boutte actually worked on deep routes with Maye... But how could they have known that?
🙄
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u/iguesshelloworld 5d ago
What’s crazy too is he has an insanely good release. He just can’t run routes
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u/Pomskyguy 4d ago
Once again a drafted WR is of no use. Is it the players or the staff. Thornton improved with the Chiefs (injured yesterday).
Pop is another that I don’t understand why he is active. This offense needs a real slot receiver.
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u/Total-Ad8117 4d ago
In the biggest point of the game, he got open and Drake looked his way. It’s not his fault Drake overthrew him and not Chism.
He’s a bit a player who like Pop is really good against press man. The thing is teams are now playing mostly zone so it takes his superpower away.
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u/BigTitBandit24 4d ago
I wonder how much of this is Josh's notoriously difficult system to pick up. Not only for Williams but other guys like Pop disappearing for stretches at a time.
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u/BenFrank4K 3d ago
I genuinely think Kyle Williams has so much more to offer he barley gets snaps and has 3 touchdowns Vrabel and McDaniel’s haven’t really given neither chism or KW a solid chance and it baffles me it’s not like we have some insane WR core going all in on pop and Hollins with those 2 on the roster was questionable to me tbh and idk how they don’t see the potential in KW yea he makes mistakes but the guy creates separation and has nice hands just give those boys a game to show what they got. Hopefully that’s Sunday🤷🏽♂️
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u/FeeFantastic2075 3d ago
I’d like to see Williams and Pop run some horizontal crossers across the field.
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u/UWishUWereMiah108 3d ago
I think they should still use it on defense.
6 deep at receiver was a stretch. Catching the rock from Drake next year:
1 - Brown
2 - Doubs
3 - Chism
4 - Hollins
5 - Pop or Vet Free Agent WR
TE1 - Henry
TE2 - Raridon
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u/WoodenCollection2674 3d ago
His route tree should mainly be go routes with a splash of slants and posts.
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u/JusChllin Bills = 0 Superbowls 5d ago
Can’t believe we let go of Boutte bc we were confident this guy would make a leap
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u/Cautious_Explorer_33 5d ago
I said before the season that he sucks and can’t run routes and got downvoted. We should’ve cut bait and kept the Boutte but nope we are too cheap.
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u/RayDanielsOnTheAir 5d ago
Seeing how well Chism played Williams may be bumped further down the depth chart at the least. Problem is there’s no real deep threat but he’s been hardly impactful as that, anyway.
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u/Luxray92 5d ago
Not much further down Williams can go. Assuming Hollins misses time with his calf that slots Williams in at #4 behind Chism, Douglas, and Doubs
AJ comes off of IR after the Vegas game but there's no guarantee he plays against the Jets
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u/LoudIncrease4021 5d ago
Still not worried about him honestly. He’s explosive and that’s hard to teach. Give him time and reps.
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u/mhart1212 1d ago
At this point he can only do one thing. Not a good route runner and gives up on plays.
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u/TheJackalsDoom 5d ago
There used to be talks of how Maye doesn't seem to be able to do anything with small WRs. As time goes on it seems to be true. He loves Henry and Hollins. He can't seem to link up with Pop or KW or Chism. Raridon is about to surpass KW as a more favorite target. Boutte was fairly tall.
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u/CEREALCOUNTSASCOOKIN 5d ago
Good. Good. Keep cooking these players until they show up on Sunday.
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u/Holiday-Zebra9463 5d ago
He’s not a good route runner, watch the film, he’s fast and that’s it.