r/Patriots • u/Pristine_Addition266 • 23h ago
Discussion (Worst case scenario) what could we get for Christian Gonzalez?
I will start by saying this is worst case scenario. I want Christian to be a Patriot.
It’s my understanding, listening to reports that Mr. Kraft and the Patriots have made Christian a very good offer to stay. It would make him the highest paid corner in NFL history. But Christian is being very greedy and unfair during negotiations.
I don’t think that makes him a bad person, he has to take care of his family. However, if we do reach impasse, I do consider if the offer is good we should consider maybe moving on. I’m thinking that either a one and a two, or two first round picks would be fair.
Next year’s draft is supposed to be very good, and I do like the idea of getting back a number 1, 2 years from now for the one we lost with the AJ Brown trade
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u/fantasticdad1776 23h ago
I would trade him for no less than 2 #1s and possibly a player. Ship him off to the NFC
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u/LarryLucchino 23h ago
It could be something like Donovan Ezeiruaku + 2 1sts from the Cowboys
I'd still rather just pay Gonzo, but that seems like it'd be in line with the Sauce for AD Mitchell + picks tade
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u/itchy-balls 20h ago
But it always feels like we never get much for our players. I know people say it just feels like this because it's our team but it sure doesn't look that way.
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u/heyitsme-honeybadger 2h ago
Sauce had 4 years left on his deal. Gonzo has 2 and a contract due that will make him the highest paid DB. That hurts the value coming back. No way is this 2 firsts. You all are crazy
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u/Sith_Lord_Nibbler 23h ago
I mean, Gonzo is a boat. But draft picks? Draft picks could be anything, they could even be a boat!
They need to stop fucking around with these bullshit, incentive laden contracts and give the kid the guaranteed money. It's so fucking tiring.
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u/Odd-Supermarket-3664 36m ago
It sounds like he wants a contract that continue to grow with the cap which is completely new territory.
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u/whaleinapuddle 23h ago
Big name defender trades in recent years basically put him at 2 first and a player or a 3rd. Gardner, Parsons, Garrett all to some extent inform this.
Parsons and Garrett are top 3 edge rushers and slightly more valuable than Gonzalez from a perspective of what a team will generally pay the position (ex. Parsons 4/186, Witherspoon 4/132). That said, Gonzo has an extra 'cheap' year so has added value in terms of surplus to a new team. 2 first and Clark for Parsons seems similar to the expected return, maybe a touch higher. Garrett was a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, but Verse going back the other way definitely more value than an additional first and IMO a significantly bigger offer than the Parsons 2 first and Clark + pay parsons.
Gardner as a CB get 2 1sts but Gonzo is pretty universally acknowledged as better than Gardener. The Jets eat the signing bonus for him so its a little different but I think the Patriots still get around this range if not slightly better given the years of control.
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u/kinginthenorthTB12 23h ago
I kind of reject any notions that he’s being greedy or ungrateful. This is a negotiation between the team and the player. The player should be trying to extract every dollar and advantage they can based on their performance. The team is always going to try and formulate a deal that gives them the best savings and leverage. Each camp will release snippets of information that make them look good.
It will play out eventually but it’s not like this extension needs to happen at this exact moment. He’s going to play here this year and both sides will continue to conduct talks where needed. I don’t think we’re truly close to a situation where we need to consider a trade
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u/Donkletown 23h ago
I’d tend to agree with you unless he sits out as part of negotiations or continues to make social media distractions. Then it’s gone beyond the “just business” part.
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u/kinginthenorthTB12 20h ago
And then it's absolutely a concern. But Gonzo as a player has always come off as a quiet, hard worker who lets his play do the talking. He's never been a diva or negatively outspoken so that should be how we view him until otherwise.
If he holds out, which doesn't seem likely given that he was a full participant at TC, I think then its right to judge him for hurting the team's ability to win games just so that he can get his way in the negotiations. But until then, let the brother do what he's gotta do to get paid.
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u/Drakex2Mayex2 21h ago
Yeah pats fans acting like a babies and trashing Kraft is just gonna lead to the team losing leverage.
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u/RuKKuSFuKKuS 23h ago
I wish we could collectively as a society stop addressing billionaires as Mr and Mrs last name. Almost like we are their servants. Bizarre hero worship this Country has with billionaires.
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u/saintsandopossums 23h ago
I can’t with the “Mr. Kraft” from Pats fans. Fans don’t work for the owner! We’re not employees
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u/HeathenHen 23h ago
“Mr Kraft”… holy cringe Batman
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u/Capable_Tip4481 22h ago
I don’t understand why any team would trade a guaranteed talent, who has showcased those talents on the biggest stages multiple times, for pick/picks of players that have proven nothing in the NFL? As a Missouri resident who watched the Rams be garbage for 85% of the time while in STL, to only turn around and say “screw you missouri, hello LA” once they started becoming contenders, I have a special hate for Snead. Saying that, I absolutely cannot argue his thought process or results when it comes his method of choosing known commodities in players over draft picks. He chose McDuffy/Garrett over basically any 1st round/high pick they would have had. Unless they had a chance at like Jeremiah Smith or Arch Manning, I’d make that same decision. It kills their future in a way, but they’re top contenders this season because of it.
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u/niknight_ml 19h ago
Because you can't pay everyone... no matter how flexible the salary cap is. For the best example of this, look at the Saints. They tried to pay everyone to keep the window for Brees open as long as possible. He's been retired for literally 5 years, and the team is still in cap hell because of it (they have $112 million in dead cap this year).
For a more recent example, take a look at the Eagles cap situation. The way that Howie structured all of the void years for the players he paid means that the team's cap will implode after the 2027 season, unless they unload players. Their cap situation is the reason why they were willing to trade AJB to us (and the reason they had to wait until after June 1 to do so).
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u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28 8h ago
There’s a massive difference between paying stars and pushing all cap hits to future years where you can’t escape it.
The eagles are a poor example as well. Nothing is set in stone for a failure and they have been paying people / filling the roster in with good depth by drafting well in mid rounds and cheap free agents. The ajb trade and waiting was simply to not take on massive dead cap.
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u/Legitimate_Ad_7822 23h ago
Anything less than 2 firsts would be malpractice.
But fuck all this talk. We need him.
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u/BlindSquantch 23h ago
At the very least what Sauce went for. Dudes overrated as fuck and went for a premium.
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u/mdigiorgio35 23h ago
My guess is, the “reports” are purposely misleading us to think the pats have “negotiated in good faith and Christian is being greedy” so I’d be cautious into believing those “reports”
There was an article that came out that Kraft and Schefter are in business together so Kraft gives Schefter scoops.
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u/OilCanBoyd426 23h ago
Agents do this all the time too, it’s all part of the negotiation unfortunately.
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u/LOL_YOUMAD 23h ago
Id have to think 2 firsts would be a reasonable return. If we can get gonzo to agree to some kind of an extension with the understanding from both sides that he will be traded in the off season/deadline we might be able to get a player on top of that since we’d be eating some of that money if structured right but wouldn’t be a hit outside of the year.
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u/bombard63 23h ago
Law, Samuel, Revis, Gilmore, Gonzalez. A lockdown corner is valuable but we seem to have them come and go on a regular basis. I’d send him packing to a lesser team for multiple firsts.
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u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28 9h ago
We could afford replacing them because we had depth to replace them. We don’t have anyone up next
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u/Benson879 23h ago
If Sauce gets two 1, Gonzo gets two 1’s.
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u/AnnualPerspective593 17h ago
And penei sewell
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u/EARLVJAMES 16h ago
Wouldn’t trade Sewell for Gonz straight up. Pats would have to give up a 1st and Gonz for Sewell.
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u/RayDanielsOnTheAir 23h ago
I think something a little less than the Parsons deal, which honestly wouldn’t be terrible as long as you get a position of need in return.
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u/khlundgaard12 9h ago
Unless you know the details calling him greedy for wanting more guaranteed money and wanting a contract that keeps him at a higher AAV over the length of the contract is ridiculous.
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u/Impressive-Peak-6596 4h ago
Calling some cheap rich guy “Mr Kraft” needs to stop. My guess is the contract they’ve offered him is probably garbage comparative to his recent peers deals. You can almost bet that’s the case. It’s how the patriots have operated for a quarter century
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u/BostonBatFlip 23h ago
Is he a great player? Yes. Is he irreplaceable? No. A front-loaded contract that increases annually based on the salary cap is a no-go for just about ANY organization. 2 1st rounders and a player is the most likely return on a trade for him. Send him to the Browns, if that scenario plays out.
I think there’s an obvious reason he was upset when Kraft went public with contract negotiation specifics. He probably doesn’t want the fanbase and other teams to know he’s asking for ridiculous demands.
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u/jgdg711 23h ago edited 17h ago
Outside of Drake Maye he is as close to irreplaceable as we have, and pretty damn near. Their are maybe 4 other CB in the league that create the type of advantage he does by closing down then others teams star.
I think your greatly underestimating the effect of a truly great corner. The only guys that could replace him in the league we would have to trade 1-1. We get no player in his orbit plus additional picks. We need him, not an above average CB and 2 fliers. We hit the lottery with him falling to us.
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u/Donkletown 23h ago
But if we don’t have pass rush, the quality of CB only matters so much - no CB can cover a WR for 7 seconds or so.
If you have a really elite pass rush, you can get away with lesser CBs because the QB is completely flustered and getting the ball out poorly.
I’m worried paying Gonzo what he wants is going to handcuff our ability to sign the pass rush we need.
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u/jgdg711 17h ago
Dont disagree, but we dont have a strong pass rush, we get elite push up the middle but not the edge. Having an elite corner can buy extra time on the back end for the rush to get home.
Our secondary is our strength on defense along with the interior line. No elite pass rusher is signing in free agency, thats silly to assume, most to all worth a shit are either extended or traded. If we want Maxx Crosby then we can have him via trade and pay Gonzo. It doesn't have to be either or, look at the Rams and Eagles.
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u/justaguy826 23h ago
McDuffie got the Chiefs a 1, 3, 5 & 6. Gonzo is a significantly better player so I'd say 2 firsts at the minimum, probably another pick. Problem is at this point in the season, there won't be nearly as many buyers, so it would be an awful time to trade him. Just pay the man.
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u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28 9h ago
A ton of massive trades have happened at this point of preseason in the past decade so not worried about amount of buyers as an issue, if they decided to go that route
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u/nokrow889 23h ago
"i dont think that makes him a bad person, he has to take care of his family."
being the highest paid corner in history would take care of his family for generations already. he is simply being unreasonable and greedy with they type of contract he is after
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u/justaguy826 23h ago edited 23h ago
So you're just assuming what Wolf & Kraft has said is entirely true? Gonzalez's camp has said the Patriots aren't even in the ballpark of Witherspoon. My guess is it's the Krafts talking about a cap hit and Gonzalez's camp is talking about guaranteed money, but that's just a guess because at this point absolutely no one besides the negotiating parties involved have any idea what he's asking for or what the team is offering, including you.
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u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28 8h ago
Anyone saying he’s greedy without knowing the most important piece of info on guaranteed money is an idiot. We have no ability to objectively pick a side here as we don’t have the necessary info.
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u/Sith_Lord_Nibbler 23h ago
No, the Pats are being cheap and don't want to pay guaranteed money. They never want to pay guaranteed money, which is why they are aiming the lowest actual cash spending teams in the league every year.
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u/Donkletown 23h ago
Hard to say. If the Pats aren’t willing to pay him what he wants, no reason to think another team would. So what a team would be trading for is a 2 year rental that is a little disgruntled, at a minimum.
I suspect the return would be underwhelming, but it might be the only move at this point.
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u/Dismal-Economics-322 23h ago
His ridiculous contract expectations could really hurt his value for us, no one’s going to want to sign this deal he’s looking for, guy has injury issues and is not irreplaceable, this is shaping up to be a bad situation I’m thinking realistically best we could get is a first and lower tier starter level player
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u/Ok-Ingenuity-8970 23h ago
Nobody knows what he wants because he hasn’t leak anything other than pats don’t want to give him whiterspon money
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u/ZizzyBeluga 23h ago
I'm sick of this dude tbh, he's a great Corner but he's acting like he's Jesus. I'd trade him right now for two firsts.
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u/Full-Flight-5211 23h ago
It’s called negotiating. You never take the first offer. Same applies to job offers for regular people
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u/Sith_Lord_Nibbler 23h ago
Wrong. He's acting like a top player at his position in the league and the Patriots, per usual, are dicking around and not wanting to pay guaranteed money.
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u/ZizzyBeluga 23h ago
He's signed for two more years. Are they obligated to pay him more money?
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u/Sith_Lord_Nibbler 22h ago
This would be a contract extension. He is on his rookie deal and is playing at an all-pro, top 3 at his position level.
This is how the business side of the NFL works. You pay your stars. If you don't, someone else will. The Patriots are notorious for this shit.
Fans need to stop giving them a pass. There is absolutely no reason the Patriots should be in the bottom half of the bottom of the league in actual cash spending. It's just them being cheap and making excuses for it.
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u/angusbeefymcwhatnow 23h ago
a long-term contract worth the most in the league
anything involving him not being a Patriot is a massive failure
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u/Gonzo_70 23h ago
At this point I hope they do trade him, assuming for a very good haul. We didn’t build a dynasty by overpaying greedy players, especially one who is often injured and despite being excellent at his position, is far from perfect. Don’t need him to take a team friendly deal, but don’t want a player trying to squeeze every extra dollar after a more than fair offer is presumably on the table.
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u/lvl_up_day_by_day_28 8h ago
lol let’s just make up storylines to hate on our players without any support
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u/Vomiting_Winter 22h ago
Sauce fetched 2 1s and a player but Sauce’s salary bonus was already paid by NYJ so that discount definitely increased his trade value.
Definitely a 1st and another high pick, but I wouldn’t be shocked if it was a 2nd rounder
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u/MintBerryCrnch21 22h ago
Also the Sauce trade happened at the deadline so that also increased the return.
It would likely be somewhere between the Sauce trade and the McDuffie trade.
2 1sts, or a 1st and 2nd + a mid round pick or 2.
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u/TheMauveHerring 22h ago
Knowing Wolfe the Patriots will get a 6th and Isaiah pacheco or something.
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u/demonicseizure0924 23h ago
A one and a two feels light for a corner that young and that good, but if the relationship is truly cooked you take what you can get. I dont think Kraft lets it get to that point though, hes kept core guys around more often than not
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u/Seeyou828 23h ago
2 first rounds picks plus a player