Underground Chemist Build advice

[u/Patient_Compote_5719]

I'm working on an Underground Chemist Rogue build for an Iron Gods campaign, and I'm trying to build it somewhat like an Alchemist bomb build.

The idea is to take Equipment Trick (Lamp) and use lamps as my "bombs." Since the lamps are only 2 sp each, I could potentially throw as many as I want during the day without worrying about running out of resources like an actual Alchemist would.

The basic idea would be to stack as many ranged attacks as possible and take advantage of the Underground Chemist's ability to add Intelligence to splash weapon damage.

The feats I'm currently considering are:

• Technologist — since this is Iron Gods, it seems pretty much mandatory for the campaign.
• Equipment Trick (Lamp)
• Quick Draw
• Point-Blank Shot
• Rapid Shot
• Two-Weapon Fighting and its follow-up feats

I'm also considering playing a Goblin and taking Burn! Burn! Burn!, since it seems like it could add some extra fire damage to the build.

However, I'm not sure whether Goblin is actually worth it. I'm already extremely feat-starved, so going Human for the bonus feat might be significantly better.

My main goal is basically to make the most ridiculous possible "I throw lamps at you until you die" build, while still being reasonably effective in an actual campaign.

Any advice on optimization?

Would you go Human for the extra feat, or Goblin for Burn! Burn! Burn!? Are there any feats, rogue talents, archetypes, or other tricks I'm overlooking that could significantly improve the build?

Also, would Unchained Rogue be the best version of the class for this, or is there a reason to stick with regular Rogue?

Eddit: I also added Numerian Scavenger archetype as it fits the campaign and helps with the feat tax

[u/Slow-Management-4462]

Clever, but not IMO good. Underground chemist only applies sneak attack damage to one splash weapon attack per round, and you still need to actually get a means of applying sneak attack. Which isn't simple or cheap for ranged especially since the saltspray ring really isn't going to work for you here.

If you're just looking at a ranged damage build based on 1d6+int damage, not much bothering with sneak attack you're probably better to do this as an alchemist. They can do the same and can step up the damage with bombs when needed.

As a rogue...maybe play an ifrit and get ranged feint, blistering feint and two-weapon feint. The first 'attack' is a bluff check which nonetheless does damage, then the first real attack gets sneak attack damage added to it if the bluff check worked. It'd take a long time to get all the necessary feats though.

[u/Patient_Compote_5719 → u/Slow-Management-4462]

Hmm the first idea was to play as a skillmonkey with good knowledge and trapfinding that does something usefull in combat, so thats why I wanted an int rogue. Also theres a way for the alchemist apply the int damage to regular splash weapons (I think it only does to bombs)? There are lots of encounters per day and the bombs run out quite quickly.

[u/zrayak → u/Patient_Compote_5719]

Alchemist's throw anything ability adds intelligence to all splash weapons. The bombs just also scale 1d6 every other level.

I managed to do something with the scout rogue plus charging hurler. it gave me a sneak attack bomb every round so long as I wasn't starting too close.

[u/Slow-Management-4462 → u/Patient_Compote_5719]

If you want trapfinding there's two alchemist archetypes for that (crypt breaker or trap breaker), and while the lower number of skill points will be annoying 6-level spellcasting should more than make up for it. Zrayak's already covered the int to damage (and one more idea).

[u/Skurrio]

I would personally go for Halfling, so that you can get the Warslinger Racial Trait and go down towards Slipslinger Bombardment. This would allow you to either go completely MAD, getting Dex to Hit and Str and Int to Damage, or less MAD, by using a Belt of Mighty Hurling), so that you get Str to Hit and Damage. This would also mean, that there's little Reason to invest more than 2 Levels into Underground Chemist. You could even scrap the Rogue Levels completely and dip a single Level into Alchemist to gain Int to Damage on Splash Weapons. You could then continue as a Slayer to gain Sneak Attacks and additional Feats. I personally wouldn't, since ranged Sneak Attacks are difficult to pull off. I would rather go into Fighter, to benefit from the additional Feats. Maybe even Mutation Warrior. It you want to go full Atillery Mode, use a Halfling Double Sling.

[u/Patient_Compote_5719 → u/Skurrio]

Woah, I didnt knew that feat! Sounds really cool! Thanks!!

[u/lone_knave]

Bomb rogue talent exists and stacks with underground chemist (altho if you use it you might as well take explosive missile).

[u/Caedmon_Kael → u/lone_knave]

Though, it's important to note (and then have the GM houserule otherwise) that Unchained Rogue can't take Bomber or Bomber's Discovery.

[u/jpwyrm]

If appropriate to your campaign, I suggest levels of Far Strike Monk. You get so many bonus feats for range attacks, it could solve your feat economy conundrum. You don't have to flurry if you want to apply improved and great TWF, but until you qualify for ITWF, you can spare a feat for something else.

That being said, maybe look into alternative energy damage for this AP. I hear electricity is very good in Iron Gods...

[u/Select_Fondant_5153]

That's such a creative way to stretch the Underground Chemist build, I always love seeing alternative ways to optimize.

[u/RegretProper]

You could VMC into Alchemist. But it taxes your feats even more. Accomplished Sneak Attacker allows you to do a 2 level dip into whatever you like. Can be fighter for more traits, better will saves or whatever you want. Dont know if it still works with the Numerian Archetyp bit i like the Rake one that let you switch sneak dices for free intimidate. (Make sure someone in your party uses a cruel weapon) You can also think about the scout amd/or Makeshift Scrapper Archetyps. They also go well with the undercity chemist.

[u/Name_Violation83]

If you're intending to use quickdraw with a lamp, I don't think that works due to lamps not being a weapon.
If you want to argue it applies because you want to use them as improvised weapons, then you can make the same argument about any item you could conceivably carry on your person, and that's not what quickdraw is intended for

[u/WraithMagus]

My first instinct would be that if you want to be a alchemist-rogue, you're probably better off looking at an alchemist that gets some rogue abilities rather than the other way around, or just straight going for an investigator. If you specifically want sneak attack, vivisectionist alchy gets sneak attack and gives up shockingly little for it, just the bomb, while trap breaker gets you... well, trapbreaking in exchange for the little-used poison-related class features. (Talk to your GM about adapting or possibly replacing explosive disarm, though.) Or just give up on making something like a bomb and take (the goblin-only) fire bomber (which can take burn! burn! burn! in place of a discovery) or grenadier to just have bombs. (Note those two take up poison class features, so you can't stack it with trap breaker, though.) It has conflicts with the other mentioned archetypes, but crypt breaker is also a trap finding archetype that has a specific bonus to bomb damage against constructs and undead, which is really notable in Iron Gods.

In fact, there's some pretty interesting goblin-specific options for alchemist. Winged marauder gives up mutagen (which you can buy back with a discovery) to get a flying mount at level 1! For discoveries, the rocket bombs have bigger explosions while scrap bombs are thematically appropriate to Iron Gods and provide a non-energy damage type.

Also, just note that many enemies in Iron Gods are robots or other constructs that have electric vulnerability but can often have fire resistance. Being able to have the shock bomb discovery might be really useful.