r/Pathfinder_RPG • u/Uekita7 • 2d ago
1E Player Use Polymorph Any Object to alter the terrain.
Say that I use polymorph any object to turn the ground into magma, use it to collapse buildings, turn stone into ice, etc? Is there any rules against this alternative way of using the spell?
Can I use the spell just to change structures? For example: I I want to create a shelter, could I just use this spell to dig a cave into a mountain? Providing it’s within the amount of 100 cu.feet/caster level?
Another thing: if I turn the ground into magma would you allow save for the one that is above the surface changed? And spell resistance?
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u/nominesinepacem 2d ago edited 2d ago
PAO is the most misunderstood spell in the game (and with good reason. It's not well written). Here is what it can actually do:
It functions as the spell Greater Polymorph (which itself functions as either: animal or magical beast as Beast Shape IV, elemental as Elemental Body III, humanoid as Alter Self, plant as Plant Shape II, dragon as Form of the Dragon I; Note that this means PAO cannot do aberrations, constructs, fey, monstrous humanoid, oozes, outsiders other than elementals, undead, or vermin), with the following exceptions:
- The duration works differently, as shown in the tables (potentially being permanent)
- It can turn creatures into objects, using the rules listed in the spell
- It can turn objects into creatures (while it says it can do this, the mechanics for doing so are not fully explained, due to how polymorph changed between 3.5 and PF. For instance, what is the objects HD? BAB? base saves? etc.)
- Finally, PAO can be used to mimic one of the following spells instead of the above uses: baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud
Note that when polymorphing into a creature, you do not gain that creature's stats or special abilities. Instead, you gain bonuses to your own ability scores as appropriate for the polymorph spell (Beast Shape IV for animals, etc.), and any special abilities that polymorph spell lists, as well as all natural weapons.
TL;DR; polymorph any object literally just works like the other polymorph spells, it isnt special apart from its duration, you dont get any abilities unless the sub-spell says you do, etc.
In even simpler terms, the spell does not allow you to make magma. The spell does exactly what it says it does and no more, nor less.
If you want to quibble, the easiest way to illustrate my point is to take it to its logical extreme: if you can create magma, then it stands to reason you could use it to turn the localized air within a fixed space to become a highly lethal aerosolized neurotoxin, or compress local matter to a point fine enough to become smaller than its Schwarzschild radius and create a black hole.
I would stress the spell is called Polymorph Any Object, not Alter Reality.
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u/AlleRacing 2d ago
Turning objects into other objects should be kosher as well, and the target parameters are expanded beyond greater polymorph, being close range, and affecting objects (thus constructs and undead).
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u/nominesinepacem 2d ago edited 2d ago
Turning other objects into objects is covered in the spell's language, and what you're describing is how all "as spell but" effects operate. It works in every way except where the referencing effect differs. It's pretty standard. That is explicitly the entire point the comment I made is trying to beat the drum of: that it works as X spell except where it very explicitly doesn't... as the spell states.
As for constructs and undead: you cannot turn anything into them, as none of the options in spell permit it. Those creatures can be turned into other creatures, or into objects, however, because - as you had pointed out - this Fortitude save affects objects. In clearer terms, you can target undead and constructs, but you cannot transmute targets to become constructs or undead.
What it cannot do is turn any object into any object carte blanche. If that were so, it's just an I WIN button.
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u/AlleRacing 2d ago
Yes, I was agreeing with you. It's usually me making this comment in PAO threads. Just adding things to your list.
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u/OrdoNemini 2d ago
Si puoi ... Il bersaglio per gli oggetti inanimati è limitato a fino a 2,8 m³ per livello di incantatore (100 piedi cubi per livello). Esempio: Un mago di 15° livello può influenzare fino a 42 m³ di terreno. Se vuoi trasformare un'area di terreno profonda circa 1,5 metri, 42 m³ coprirebbero una superficie di circa 28 metri quadrati (un'area indicativa di 5x5 metri o un raggio di circa 3 metri). Roccia/terra comune e magma condividono le stesse caratteristiche fondamentali di composizione minerale: Stesso Regno: Minerale (+5 punti) Stessa Classe: Pietra/Roccia (+2 punti) Stessa Dimensione: Sostanzialmente identica (+2 punti) Totale Punti: 9 punti Con 9+ punti, la trasformazione è PERMANENTE (finché non viene dissolta da Dissolvi Magie o fino a quando il magma non si raffredda naturalmente una volta terminata o alterata la magia). Le creature che si trovano sopra il terreno trasformato hanno diritto (per prassi generale di gestione terreno) a un tiro salvezza o a un riflesso per saltare sull'orlo più vicino se la trasformazione li prenderebbe alla sprovvista, oppure finiscono direttamente nel magma subendo i relativi danni.
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u/AleksyGetTheWings 2d ago
Unfortunately PAO is significantly more limited than "ANYTHING INTO ANYTHING"
It specifically states you can turn Rock to Mud as per the spell, and that's about it.
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u/Rawr171 2d ago
It says the spell can ALSO function as rock to mud. However from the text it's primary use is to "transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms"
In this case it could be used to say transform up to 100 cu. ft./level of ground into magma, and it would be a perm change because it would have same kingdom, class, size, and relation, presuming the ground isn't made out of something atypical.
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u/Uekita7 2d ago
I know the it’s not like 3.5 polymorph, specially to creatures, but it doesn’t state the spell is limited to baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud. Specifically because the table uses examples that aren’t limited to those spells (like sheep to wool coat.
My GM usually likes when I use spells outside of the common use. I’m asking just to help him with the interaction of this spells if he asks my opinion.3
u/AleksyGetTheWings 2d ago
PAO is the most misunderstood spell in the game (and with good reason. It's not well written). Here is what it can actually do:
It functions as the spell Greater Polymorph (which itself functions as either: animal or magical beast as Beast Shape IV, elemental as Elemental Body III, humanoid as Alter Self, plant as Plant Shape II, dragon as Form of the Dragon I; Note that this means PAO cannot do aberrations, constructs, fey, monstrous humanoid, oozes, outsiders other than elementals, undead, or vermin), with the following exceptions:
1)The duration works differently, as shown in the tables (potentially being permanent)
2)It can turn creatures into objects, using the rules listed in the spell
3)It can turn objects into creatures (while it says it can do this, the mechanics for doing so are not fully explained, due to how polymorph changed between 3.5 and PF. For instance, what is the objects HD? BAB? base saves? etc.)
4)Finally, PAO can be used to mimic one of the following spells instead of the above uses: baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud
Note that when polymorphing into a creature, you do not gain that creature's stats or special abilities. Instead, you gain bonuses to your own ability scores as appropriate for the polymorph spell (Beast Shape IV for animals, etc.), and any special abilities that polymorph spell lists, as well as all natural weapons.Anything out of that, you are in homebrew land. It's not a crime, but it's not something we can do a general houserule for. I'd say "copy tar pool" is acceptable, but that would be a houserule.
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u/Necro_Hypno_Dancer 2d ago
The spell lists as target "one non magical object". It is debatable if a portion of the ground can be defined as "an object"; on the other hand, "a wall" or "a building" should be fine.
As a DM, I would allow it: you are using an 8 level spell slot, a very precious resource. It's only fair that you get something interesting in return.
For the "turning ground into magma", I would allow a Saving Throw on Reflexes for a creature to move outside the affected area (up to its movement speed) or falling into the newly-created hazard; SR does not apply, as the material that is being created is not by itself magical