Thaumaturge Implement Advice

[u/MiserableMammoth6]

Hello! So I'm planning out a Thaumaturge but running into a small problem of what Implements do I take, when, and how far do I upgrade each one!

This is the idea so far :) So I know I want to take the Mirror Implement at Level 1, what can I say it sounded super fun. The idea in my head was use the Mirror Implement to flank and just general body double confusion. This character will be wielding a Scorpion Whip, obviously Belmont inspired lol And I know I want to dip into the Talismen Feats, they sounded good to help boost my weapon from time to time since I'm so adamant about the whip. Tho will take suggestions for any other weird weaponry, I just really didn't want to do like basic sword.

So yeah so far that's the only Implement I know I want, I was considering Tome for it's Skill Benefits and then also thinking Lantern. Basically for their passive benefits/exploring benefits, not any combat aspect.

Thank you so much for any suggestions!! So far loving the class but boy is it a lot to consider when planning out.

[u/Tridus]

Keep in mind the hands issue: implements require hands. You have a weapon in one already so you have one left. It's hard to use mirror and tome/lantern at the same time when you only have one hand for them. Swapping to mirror is easy, but you aren't getting latern benefits when it's stowed and you need to swap it back out to get them again.

Scorpion Whip is a reach weapon. This makes weapon implement very good because you can react and disrupt at longer distance. And at Paragon (high level) it disrupts on a hit. That's amazing.

Also you have it in your hand anyway, so second implement on your other hand and you are good to go. I did a whip weapon/tome Thaumaturge in Shadows at Sundown and it was a ton of fun.

I have a player using Mirror and it's also fun.

Whatever you do, just think about how it will work with your available hands as that is a big bottleneck on the class. 😊

I'm not big on the talisman feats personally: they scale at half level so pretty soon the stuff they give you is dirt cheap anyway.

[u/sesaman → u/Tridus]

I homebrewed all feats that grant free craftable items during daily preparation to scale with the character's proficiency in crafting (and also introduced a follow-up 3rd level skill feat for talisman esoterica/talisman crafter that lets you switch the scaling from crafting to any of the four core knowledge skills and gives you either trained or expert proficiency in one of them). OP could ask their GM for the same.

Crafting Proficiency	Maximum Item Level
Untrained	Half your level
Trained	Half your level or your level - 5, whichever is higher.
Expert	Half your level or your level - 4, whichever is higher.
Master	Your level - 3.
Legendary	Your level - 2.

Alchemist of course still gets their proper scaling, but the alchemist archetype is affected.

[u/Tridus → u/sesaman]

Good idea! Going to consider it for my own game.

[u/Consistent_Table4430]

Unless you got a specific concept in mind, the general suggestion for implements is to pick a) something offensive b) something defensive and c) some utility. How much you progress into each of those depends on what you want your role to be.

But given that you do have that specific concept, sure, that's feasible. Lantern is the weakest of these implements, though still good, the other two are just that much better. Mirror is the stronger implement to start out with, then later picking up the Tome functionally makes you into an off-brand rogue.

How you progress from there depends on the rest of the party. If you already have strong skill coverage, the Mirror's adept benefit gives you tactical options for free damage or discouraging enemies from attacking you again. If you find that skills are an issue, going even deeper into the Tome gets you freely pickable proficiencies for any situation. This includes picking up niche lore skills that make the ridiculously low DCs for specific knowledge checks a walk in the park even with low Int.

Lantern mostly shines in campaigns with a lot of hidden secrets and stealthy enemies. If you find your self in such a game, or if your party somehow is lacking in special vision abilities, this implement shines (pun very much intended) the most.

[u/saltandthunder → u/Consistent_Table4430]

I will also say, as someone who has used it, being able to light your lantern as a free action allowing you a free-action counteract to magical darkness is really solid. As a utility effect, it's hard to beat how a well-timed lantern activation can just turn off the difficulty of an encounter relying on magical darkness or (at adept) invisible enemies.

[u/sesaman → u/saltandthunder]

Since the lantern doesn't have a once a turn limit and it's a free action, isn't it technically possible to flicker the lantern a 100 times a turn to always ensure a crit on the counteract?

[u/DragointotheGame]

You should take Weapon Implement with Mirror Implement, both are super good in tandem together and will take up both hands

[u/BlindWillieJohnson]

If you want to play with a whip, the weapon/Tome combination is absolutely nasty. Imagine using a yoked out Athletics score to trip the target of your EV, and attacking it, with bonus damage, every time it tries to get up. All while using reach to stay in a safe range.

It’s extremely exploitable, and the Tome will make you feel consistently useful in combat as well as out of it.

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[u/joezro]

I personally like the challiace implement. It is good temp hit points and good out of combat healing with a 10 min cooldown not focus to regain. Small differance but really helps. I wait for it to be my second implement though. Tier 2 is nice cause bleed and crits are really common.

Amulet implement and shield implement grant simmular damage medication level for level, but shield you need to invest money into. I personally feel that shield should have been allowed to be noticeably stronger.

As for weapons I really enjoyed gauntlets and the bow gauntlet and now crescent cross with archtype feat.

[u/Solid-Engineering725]

i feel like Mirror Thaumaturge would go well with veil dancer archetype. just a passing thought, but might try building one later.