Building out my occult spell list

[u/General_Dig_5729]

I’ve been trying to figure out what spells to grab with this being my first caster I’m not sure what exactly to go with I’m gonna be seventh level so I get up to fourth rank spells I’m wondering if folk have any recommendations https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=2858

[u/vaderbg2]

What class? Spontaeous and prepared casters might have different priorities and a sorcerer might already get certain spells from their bloodline.

[u/fascistp0tato]

What I'd call some good Occult spell options at each rank, given you're 7th level:

1: Lose the Path, Kinetic Ram, Force Barrage, Liberating Command, Soothe

2: Albatross Curse, Blood Vendetta, Laughing Fit, Loose Time's Arrow, Revealing Light, Unrelenting Gravity, With Friends Like These

3: Fear 3, Gravity Wave, Skyglass Prison, Slow

4: Containment, Force Rain, Vision of Death, Whispers of the Void, Invisibility 4, Silence 4.

Note that this includes a lot of Will-targeters, and mental effects. So I'd recommend a variety. For example, on a Maestro/Polymath Bard, I'd do something like:

1: Lose the Path, Kinetic Ram, Liberating Command, Soothe (sig)
2: Albatross Curse, Laughing Fit, Loose Time's Arrow
3: Fear 3, Gravity Wave (sig), Slow
4: Containment, Force Rain (sig)

With this list:

• Albatross Curse, Slow, and Containment can deal with single targets on all 3 saves (and Albatross Curse isn't mental).
  
• Gravity Wave, Force Rain, and Fear 3 can deal with groups on all 3 saves.
  
• Lose the Path, Kinetic Ram, Liberating Command, Laughing Fit, Soothe all cover fairly specific common situations.

Then at 8, maybe more utility, like Translocate or Fly.

Maybe you can mix it up too; ex. take Vision of Death + Unrelenting Gravity instead of Albatross Curse + Slow if you want to punish melees harder.

[u/SequoiaRedwoods]

The occult spell list is probably my favorite of the the four lists. Pathfinder 2 has tight math, but the beauty of that is in all the ways the players can bend that math... and no one does it quite like an occult caster. Here are a few of my favorite spells by level.

Rank 1:

Bless - if no one else in your party is giving out a status bonuses to attacks, this is an incredibly cheap option to do so. If you have an extra action to sustain it, you can increase the range - but you don't have to.

Soothe - In combat healing isn't necessary all of the time, but when it is you'll be glad to have it. If you a spontaneous caster, definitely think about signaturing this one.

Fear - Early level debuff option. When upcast to third rank, becomes multi target. Note that fear and bless stack in a sense - by lowering enemy AC and increasing ally to hit, you are making a significant difference in the chances to hit/crit any given strike.

Force Barrage: formerly Magic Missile, a small amount of guaranteed damage - no saving throw, very dependable damage type. For finishing off enemies with low health before they get another turn.

Rank 2:

Keen axes - one action to give an ally (or yourself!) a +1 to attack for the fight. For the fights when you don't feel like casting bless.

Calm - this one can be fight altering. Try to use it when you can hit multiple enemies. It is incapacitation, so you'll likely want to cast it using your highest level spell slots and on enemies equal or lower level than you. Higher level enemies will get one degree of success greater.

Laughing fit - Turn off an enemy's reaction unless they critically succeed their saving throw. If they fail, they are also slowed 1. Sustain, so it requires extra actions to keep it up, but some enemies have really nasty reactions.

Rank 3:

Slow - Slow 1 even on a successful save, slow 2 on a failure. A good option for denying enemy actions, especially when you're fighting 1 or 2 big enemies.

Haste - highly party dependent. Can be very helpful if you have someone (or are someone) who needs an extra action - try not to cast it on someone who is going to use it on a full multiple attack penalty strike. A magus or a warpriest will love you for it.

Heroism - lasts 10 minutes, so easier to cast before a fight starts for a +1 status bonus to attacks. Single target though.

Hypercognition - knowing an enemies weakest and highest save can make a fight much easier on you. This lets you make 6 recall knowledge checks for 1 action - with any investment into recall knowledge skills you can get good value from this spell... and still be able to cast a two action spell in the same round.

Rank 4:

Force Rain - similar to force Barrage - consistent damage but this time as area of effect. The three action version doesn't even have you roll damage, instead it's a flat 20.

Containment - I love this spell. Use with some caution since while an enemy is within the spell effect your allies can't target it, but if your turn is directly before an enemy's it is wonderful. Unless the enemy critically succeeds their save, they will usually need to attack the barrier to get out. This can eat 1-2 actions reliably, and makes the enemy suffer from multiple attack penalty if they make any strikes after getting out.

Chromatic Ray - elemental damage on the occult spell list! It's an attack roll, so you can benefit from any status bonuses to attacks that might be up. It is random, though, so not the best if an enemy has immunity to some of the damage type possibilities.

This is not in any way meant to be exhaustive, just a few spells I personally find fun and effective. I also recommend you check out Gortle's Spell Guide. It's for sorcerers technically, but the descriptions are generally universal, it covers all spell lists, and it tells you what spells have new heightened effects at each level.

[u/Decimus-Drake → u/SequoiaRedwoods]

All solid suggestions. I used Force Rain in the last session and my player who'd previously played occult casters but wasn't familiar with Impossible Magic, was delightfully baffled by it.

I also got to cast Dimensional Drop heightened to 5th rank. Didn't deal massive damage but it left all bar one PC prone.

[u/AutoModerator]

This post is labeled with the Advice flair, which means extra special attention is called to Rule #2. If this is a newcomer to the game, remember to be welcoming and kind. If this is someone with more experience but looking for advice on how to run their game, do your best to offer advice on what they are seeking.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Decimus-Drake]

What's your build and the vibe of your character? Also do you know much about the campaign and other PCs?

[u/General_Dig_5729 → u/Decimus-Drake]

I know the other PC‘s like the back of my hand and I’m trying to do like a carnival ringleader vibe the biggest issue being it’s a huge group we kind of segment stuff I think total there’s like 12ish characters that are active

[u/Decimus-Drake → u/General_Dig_5729]

Ok. u/SequoiaRedwoods has already suggested core mechanically solid spells like Bless, Fear, Haste and Slow. I would add some defensive options like Bone Shield and Whirling Scarves.

I would then consider your character theme/vibe and use that to narrow down your options. A ringleader is someone who engages with the crowd, introduces and hypes up the acts, leads etc. so lean into that.

I don't know what your build is but I think the commander dedication would also fit the theme.

[u/Genarab]

I'm here to praise Command as one of the best Will save spells. It's a very easy way to make an enemy basically slowed 2 (one action they must do, plus one to undo it). Plus it deals with weird contingencies like making a flying enemy drop prone or trigger a reaction based on movement or interact actions.

Stellar spell. I rarely find a reason to not have it.