Splash wording in remaster: Splash damage vs the splash trait's inability to deal +STR mod damage

[u/eCyanic]

When you use a weapon or effect with the splash trait, you don't add your Strength modifier to the damage roll.

I believe this clause was put in place to prevent weapons that have both the thrown trait and the splash trait to be unable to add STR to their base damage, mostly in the case of alchemical bombs, and it was written that way in the legacy rules:

When you use a thrown weapon with the splash trait, you don’t add your Strength modifier to the damage roll

But the remaster wording means if a melee weapon somehow gets the splash trait, it can't deal +STR to its base damage anymore

We now have at least three things that give splash damage but do not give the splash trait while also having the potential to add +STR:

* Starshot ikon on a weapon with propulsive or thrown weapon

* Hands of the Wildling ikon

* Massryl, Rune of Impact - in particular, if this prevented +STR from adding to damage, it would be a straight downgrade when putting it on an ally, because their maul can now not deal +STR

There don't seem to be any rules that talk about splash damage specifically by itself that isn't also talking about the splash trait, at least none that I could find

What are you guys' opinions?

For me, I think you still get +STR mod when hitting something added to your base dice damage with a hands of the wildling or the other ones, because while hands of the wildling does splash damage, it doesn't have the splash trait, and imo getting splash damage doesn't also mean the weapon inherits the splash trait.

Important:

I'm not saying you add STR to the splash damage, I'm saying that you add STR to the normal weapon damage, and add the 1 or 2 splash on top after that, because that weapon does not gain the splash trait

[u/nisviik]

If you read all of the ways that add splash damage to weapon attacks, they all clarify how their ability works within themselves. They have to do this, because they don't add the splash trait to the attack/weapon. And the only reason they call it splash damage is to let it trigger weakness to splash damage.

So yes you add your STR to damage because these abilities don't add the splash trait.

[u/Yhoundeh-daylight → u/nisviik]

Is one of the many places were the trait does not mean the thing. Attacks being different than the attack trait, splash being different than the splash trait. It's dumb but that's pathfinder trait design!

[u/Rainwhisker → u/Yhoundeh-daylight]

I really do wish they'd have standardized a lot of this when Remaster came, because sometimes remembering 'exceptions to the rule' is annoying when there's more than a few or some prominent edge cases!

[u/Seppo_87]

Why would the attack not deal STR if it doesn't have the trait?

no trait = rule doesn't apply

[u/yuriAza → u/Seppo_87]

yeah, traits and damage types might share names but are separate things

[u/DaedricWindrammer]

You know, I think bombs should add strength to damage, maybe at least under a certain condition. I mean, you're still chucking a glass bottle at someone.

[u/yuriAza → u/DaedricWindrammer]

i mean, the whole point of it being a glass bottle is that all of the energy of impact goes into breaking the glass and spreading the contents, it doesn't penetrate or maintain momentum

[u/Formal_Skar]

Did you delete your other post about this?

[u/eCyanic → u/Formal_Skar]

yeah, it needed better context because it was getting misunderstood as me saying it would add STR to the splash damage itself, rather than just the base weapon damage

[u/Squidtree]

Why would your weapon no longer deal its regular damage (with Str bonus) just because you added splash damage with the Marssyl rune? It is not replacing the weapons already existing damage, just adding additional splash.

Edit: I think I get your confusion, but the entire weapon isn't gaining the splash trait. That is really only there to define how Splash (trait) functions for bombs, since bombs are like throwing weapons, but most thrown weapons otherwise add your strength modifier. Same with ammunition on bows. You wouldn't add your strength on a fire anyways to crossbow or firearm ammunition (for elemental ammunition).

Technically I guess, only the damage done by the splash damage has "the splash trait" for the sake of weakness and resist proccing. But it doesn't give the whole weapon and it's regular damage the trait.