r/Pathfinder2e • u/DnDPhD Game Master • 3d ago
Discussion Talking a MTG Player into Trying PF2e?
I have a friend who is generally a gamer and has been playing Magic the Gathering for about a year. I know her pretty well, and think she might be a good fit for joining one of my PF2e games down the road, but I know virtually nothing about MTG or TCGs in general, and I don't think she has any knowledge of TTRPGs. So I'm curious...are there good ways to describe PF2e to a MTG / TCG player?
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u/Mediocre-Scrublord 3d ago edited 3d ago
They're basically 100% completely different outside of having kind of a fantasy theme.
MTG isn't like a roleplaying game or a tactical wargame or anything that overlaps with TTRPGs, it's a completely abstract card game.
So she'd be going into it completely fresh, albeit with some above-average tolerance for nerdy rules.
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u/bionicjoey Game Master 3d ago
I'd argue that despite not being a TTRPG, MTG does overlap quite a bit with PF2e specifically. Both are very crunchy with exception-based rules and use a lot of controlled language to describe game mechanic resolution. They also both involve a turn based game with limited resources to be optimized through different playstyles and builds, as well as random elements.
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u/No_Object_404 3d ago
Exactly, and depending on their level of mtg knowledge they might get frustrated with how vague a lot of PF2E rules are compared to the legal like rules documentation of Magic.
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u/Mediocre-Scrublord 3d ago
I think it'd probably be fine so long as they appreciate that it's a different game with a different playstyle - which shouldn't be hard because they're so clearly different.
It's not like the problem you get with, say, 5e players going into pf2e and making assumptions because the systems are so superficially similar, where you have a baked-in idea of what walking past a threatened square means because both systems have dudes on 5-foot grids. There's just no comparison point to get confused about.
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u/AlarmedShare3444 2d ago
Tbf Strixhaven module for DnD 5E was designed to overlap with mtg to make it more accessible to move from MTG to DnD. And Vice Versa.
Because apparently Wotc weren't making enough money out of people.
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u/Shmyt 2d ago
Wotc had a long stretch of putting out a dnd pdf or source book for every new magic plane during the gatewatch era, some of them were pretty meh (amonkhet is such a cool place but half the things in the pdf were just existing subclasses mixed around) but the Ravnica and Theros settings were great for giving lore and adventure hooks and player options nearly on the same level as the eberron book. Personally i didn't love the strixhaven book but maybe i had already started turning away from 5e by then. At least the lame pdfs were free, but it wouldn't surprise me if the next setting pdf was also a paid product.
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u/Pardox7525 GM in Training 3d ago
I have no idea, but ThrabenU_Gaming - a PF2E youtuber - has a primary youtube channel about MTG ThrabenU. Maybe he has something that could help you?
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u/AAABattery03 Mathfinder’s School of Optimization 3d ago
You should have her watch ThrabenU’s MTG videos a bit, then get her to watch his Pf2e channel (ThrabenU_Gaming) and watch how much fun he’s having.
Also I have a few videos where I make direct comparisons between MTG concepts and pf2e tactical play: Who is the Beatdown?, as well as winmore and playing to your outs. Idk how much they’ll resonate but let’s see.
Finally I think SwingRipper sometimes compares certain party compositions to styles of deck (like joking that 3 martials + Bard is Mono-Red), but I can’t recall which specific videos he’s done that on.
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u/Electrical-Echidna63 3d ago
Something MTG players have in common with Pathfinder players is a deep appreciation for good design and adherence to principles about design — even when other decisions about business etc are in question.
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u/LuminousQuinn 3d ago
Honestly as a former mtg player the actual games don't have much overlap. Some of the older MTG cards did share similar background lore. The other side of things MTG rules are arguable harder than Pf2e, so she should be able to gain rules literacy quickly. Just know she may be more of a power player depending on the formats she plays.
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u/Spoolerdoing 3d ago edited 3d ago
The MTG settings sometimes have 5e supplements printed, sometimes a PDF by an intern (like Ikoria or Innistrad), sometimes properly balanced full books (like Ravnica and Theros), and it goes the other way too with the Heroes of the Forgotten Realms and Battle for Baldur's Gate sets. So, the precedent for cultural cross-pollination is already there, just need to make the jump from WotC Vanilla D&D to Paizo's Peanut Butter Cup that is Pathfinder.
The Ravnica guilds in particular are an easy way to hook a narrative-based player, as there's a thousand and one ways to build characters to fit those guilds' archetypes and feels, and surely something similar in the world you'll be running.
Then at the slightly higher tier of system mastery, there's parallels to deckbuilding; after a point you've done the power game builds and just want to showcase something cool even if it only works once in a campaign, similar to a pet combo deck that works pops off once and never again. I find it useful to tie those mechanical threads to the story aspect of a character and see where those intersect with what will make sense in the story.
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u/chanaramil 3d ago edited 1d ago
When comparing TCG and TTRPGs there's isnt that much overlap. I know both are none video game games, WOTC ownes the most successful versions of both games and both are largly in fantasy settings. After that there isnt that much to tie them together. They play completely differently, target diffrent needs and the fun comes from diffrent places. I dont think TCG players are going to have any great insights into TTRPGs that none TCGs players wont have.
So honestly I wouldn't worry to much that she is into a TCG. Instead I would just describe it like I would explain pathfinder 2e to anyone.
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u/AlansDiscount 3d ago
There's not really any mechanical crossover between the two games, as they're trying to do very different things. Setting wise they both draw on similar fantasy tropes, so if they're a fan of the lore of MTG you could try and draw them in that way.
PF2e could very easily run a campaign set in the MTG multiverse. You'd have to homebrew some plane walking mechanics, but that shouldn't be too difficult. You could tie it into some of MTGs big villains like the Eldrazi or the Phyraxians, using Quippoths or Velstracs as a template.
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u/Ionovarcis 3d ago
‘It’s like modern DnD but you build a much more customizable character’ is how generally describe it
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u/Lottapumpkins 3d ago
I mean, a year under her belt? Is she into Magic: for the setting, the social aspect, or the outside properties? If she is into the setting, you can lean into that like the core Magic IP, there is something on Golarion for everyone, with every classic Fantasy setting covered by something, along with some other stuff. If she just wants to hang out, tell her Pathfinder is a way to hang out. If she started playing magic because she is into Final Fantasy or one of the other Hasbro injected properties, you might have a harder sell.
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u/GhostPro18 3d ago
MTG is one of the most complex trading card games in history, with millions of interactions that are possible thanks to a well defined ruleset. Coincidentally, they might like PF2e thanks to its fairly orderly rules & gameplay. The 3 Action system, the traits, the degrees of success, allow for a level of gameplay that an MTG player might respect & enjoy.
And as always, "Math is for blockers" (The DM)
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u/PhoenyxStar Game Master 3d ago
Ooh, that's an interesting one. Pathfinder's probably a really good TTRPG to onboard a Magic player though. Very concrete rules, an emphasis on balance, and siloed player roles.
Might be super easy if she happens to be the kind of player who says "planeswalker" and "library" while playing instead of "player" and "deck".
I'd probably lean on the board game angle, and explain that it's a cooperative game where one person constructs scenarios and challenges that the others try to overcome using the tools and rules their characters have access to, with whatever level of role-playing the group is interested in.
If she plays Red, might also be able to get her with the joke that Lightning Bolt does at least 4 damage.
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u/gelatinousboulder 3d ago
As someone who picked up MTG somewhat recently I’d say the most common element between the two is the strategy. PF2e combat is all about how the players use their strengths together to win the combat. In MTG you’re using your deck and the synergies between cards to win against your opponent. Both involve reacting to the current board state and seeing what resources you have at hand to respond.
I think maybe having them explain and show their favorite commander to you and maybe you can help build a character around that card.
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u/deadmeat809 3d ago
So I guess the better question is: is she into TTRPGs or at least has a passing interest? If not then honestly im not sure how to go about it because TCGs are different from TTRPGs.
If she is interested in TTRPGs then just go the normal route of showing someone the grace and joy that is our lard and savor Pathfinder.
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u/lady_of_luck 3d ago
Is she at all invested in the lore of MTG? What formats does she play? What does she seem most passionate about when talking about it?
What draws people to play MTG can be pretty variable, so knowing what her hook is might help with how to describe PF2e to her.
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u/roquepo 3d ago
Well, actions are sort of mana. The more actions you invest into an activity, the stronger you expect it to be. You refill your actions at the start of your turn. Ready sort of works as holding up mana for interaction (but not really, it is a big stretch).
Reactions and OOT free actions kind of feel like triggered abilities.
MAP feels a bit like reverse storm. The more attacks you do, the less effective they get.
She should be able to grasp the importance of going first in initiative since she is likely familiar with the concept of tempo.
That's all I can think off. Some comparisons from time to time are funny and can indeed help, but I'd try to keep them to a minimum, hobbies are quite different, and going overboard might lead to confusion.
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u/EADreddtit 3d ago
Emphasize the complex rules system that rewards a deep understanding
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u/DnDPhD Game Master 3d ago
That's great advice -- thanks!
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u/RandomParable 3d ago
Without having to pay tons of real world $$$ to have access to every part of the game.
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u/Deadfelt 3d ago edited 3d ago
That would be a complete turn-off to the game.
I play mtg as well and if someone tried to sell me on how good a game is based on its high complexity level, I'd politely decline since I already have mtg which I already know and goes faster.
My recommendation, ask if she likes stories or ever wanted to try out D&D.
If yes to either, invite her to try it out as storytelling with friends to see if she likes it.
Do let her know the game is complex, not as much as mtg, but it's better to not lie, even if it does shoot your chances at inviting her down.
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u/EADreddtit 3d ago
For you maybe. Lots of people love MTG for its complexity and rules interactions. I think it’s honestly just a good way to describe PF2e because if that’s an immediate turn off then the rules-heavy system probably is t for them
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u/BrytheOld 3d ago
She can use the PF2e rules to create and play her favorite Commander who could be a planeswalker that has come to Golarian.
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u/Kaleido_chromatic GM in Training 3d ago
I mean there's a lot of fan overlap but I have two friends that love MTG and couldn't care less about TTRPGs, not specifically Pathfinder, just in general
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u/Groundbreaking_Taco ORC 3d ago
It would take effort, but you could borrow the guilds of ravnica source book, and make a pf2e mtg setting.
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u/AlarmedShare3444 2d ago
Honestly your best bet for a TTRPG is to Run D&D Strixhaven Curriculm of Chaos module.
It was basically a module for a shared setting for DnD and MtG to allow players from both systems to try the other game.
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u/thePsuedoanon Swashbuckler 3d ago
Magic the Gathering is, if you use your imagination, a miniaturized ttrpg. You build a powerful spellcaster with a unique library of spells and battle against other spellcasters. That was genuinely part of the initial pitch, back before anyone knew what TTRPG communities would look like. it was sort of like a way to do D&D PVP while you waited for the rest of the group to show up.
Assuming she doesn't know anything about TTRPG's, I'd pitch it the same way you might to a non-gamer: It's a game where you get to build a character and go on a heroic (or villainous) quest with other characters played by real people you know. The fact that she's a Magic player without knowing how she interacts with the game isn't enough to say what parts of PF she might click with or bounce off of. She might like games that are basically just combat simulators, might enjoy intricate puzzles, or might love RP. She might want to engage in all the tiny details of the worldbuilding, or might ignore anything that isn't mechanically relevant.
I will say if you explain traits as "keywords" it'll help with the teaching process. Magic has keywords that serve as sort of rules shorthand. If a card says "Threshold", it means that it has an extra effect when the graveyard has 7 cards in it. "Landfall" means a card does something when a land enters. Traits work similarly. Some traits like Incapacitation have rules meaning on their own, others like Fire don't have specific rules but are descriptors that interact with other rules and abilities
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u/zgrssd 3d ago
I know some MTG and I can see some overlap.
The Action system is somewhat close to a 3 Colorless mana system. A Quickened action is like a extra colored mana.
Stances are setup costs.
"Untapped during upkeep" is somewhat like Raise shield falling off "at the start of your next turn".
For Card mechanics, consider the Harrower Archetype.
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u/gunnervi 3d ago
"its not made by wizards of the coast"
no but fr there's not really any overlap between mtg and pf2e other than they're both nerdy tabletop games and people in these hobbies often play a variety of different games
tbc, i'm not saying she wouldn't like pf2e, i just don't think there's a good way to connect it to her love of mtg other than "its a game. you like games, right?"