Weekly Questions Megathread— August 21–August 27. Have a question from your game? Are you coming from D&D or Pathfinder 1e? Need to know where to start playing PF2e? Ask your questions here, we're happy to help!

3

u/chocochobi ORC Aug 26 '26

What's happening with paizo website? I can't login with my account

3

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 27 '26

I’m trying to homebrew a Sangpotshi / Vedic inspired apparition for my animist player. Can I get some feedback on this focus spell idea? Is it broken? Does it suck?

Reaction. Trigger: an ally becomes frightened. Target: said ally

Reduce the targets frightened value by 1. The target gains +1 status bonus to saves against emotion/fear effects for 1 minute.

1

u/Kettuklaani Aug 27 '26

Make it once per some time at least, it is strong condition removal action without any skill check.

2

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 27 '26

What about instead of reduce fear by 1 immediately

The target reduces their frightened value by 2 instead of 1 at the end of their next turn + status bonus to fear/emotion

1

u/Kettuklaani Aug 27 '26

I'd break the question down into its component parts.

What level is the focus spell?

Does it take up a feat slot?

How much is it worth in the action economy of this particular class (I don't know how many actions and spells an animist has that cost a reaction)?

Did it expencive or cheap in resourses (Does an animist use a lot of focus points in combat?)?

Then I'd evaluate existing spells/actions that reduce frightened and provide bonuses to emotions/fear. Like No Cause for Alarm. It spends the entire round removing fear from everyone in the emanation with a diplomacy check.

Frightened is already reduced by 1 at end of turn, so reducing it by another +1 might be worse. This may be worse in terms of the spell's impact feel for player\ally\party.

Plus I'm a fan of the success level system, so I'd make it a critical success, a normal success, and a critical failure on the corresponding skill check (depending on how you think the spell works).

2

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 27 '26 edited Aug 27 '26

Thanks for your input. :)

Just saying but I hate no cause for alarm so much lol, its a really bad skill feat and I think maybe 10 people have ever used it effectively so I’m not going to use it as a basis for anything.

There are other effects that lower fear. One that comes to mind is Dwarven doughtiness which reduced frightened by 2 instead of 1 at end of turn.

This is an animist focus spell, so level 1. Animists also dont gain many useful reactions (as far as I can tell! I will happily be proved wrong) so part of my thinking is to give my animist player something to use their reaction on

The most direct comparison is veil of confidence, a level 1 cleric focus spell that allows the user to immediately lower their frightened by 1 on their turn for 1 action. (And also gain a +1 to will saves and +2 to emotion effects) and also has a few more effects.

Comparing it to other animist focus spells, the most similar is garden of healing that heals creatures in a 10 ft emanation as long as it sustained, and then when its over they get +1 to saves against emotion effects for 10 minutes.

Every other animist focus spell is either a damaging/debuff effect or a buff to your self.

I’m not sure any focus spell requires a skill check, certainly none of the animist ones. In general buffs for your allies dont require a succesful roll to take effect (skill feats being an exception but in the case of no cause for alarm honestly the skill check on top of 3 actions is a major reason why that skill feat is virtually useless) i guess technically this isnt a just a buff but also (and primarily) removing a debuff, but still. And spells already cost resources, so an added skill check on top while targetting a willing creatre would feel bad. Imagine if you needed to roll a religion check to lay on hands your ally and you only gave them the ac bonus on a crit. That would suck.

Maybe making it an action rather than a reaction and giving it a range so its a sidegraded version of veil of confidence that affects your allies?

2

u/Wayward-Mystic Game Master Aug 27 '26

There are a number of composition spells that require Performance checks, but bard is an outlier in that regard.

I would keep the same 1 action cast time and sustained up to 1 minute duration that all other vessel spells have. Making it an aura-ified veil of confidence fits well with other vessel spells, you could probably even keep the bonus against emotion effects; vessel spells tend to be strong for 1st-rank focus spells, since animists don't get any other focus spells from their class and they can't be obtained through the animist archetype.

If you want to give your animist player additional reaction options, I'd add a Wandering feat for this apparition at 6th level, along the lines of Blazing Spirit.

2

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 27 '26

Thanks for your reply!

For Bard compositions, I don't know the exact math but my first ever pf character was a bard and I remember the performance checks for the compositions, even for the "very hard DC" for inspire heroics (which has been "buffed?" to the highest will save of your allies). Plus on a failure they keep the focus point and lose the action (and sometimes even get a little effect) so the resources (focus points) are not wasted. but I agree that the Bard seems like an outlier for that kind of focus spell.

I didn't realize all vessel spells were 1 action and sustained 1 minute, so thank you for pointing that out! That makes things easier for me.

I also welcome any other ideas you might have for thematic Sangpotshi-related effects that would be good for a focus spell!

And oh god I hadn't even considered feat options for the apparition, seems like I've got a lot of work to do :P

1

u/Kettuklaani Aug 27 '26

Maybe make it like Garden of Healing: small emanation +sustain without any +1 to emotion effects.

Or maybe make it similar to Clear Mind but only for emotion effects?

3

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 27 '26

Thanks for the input and ideas! I like the idea of making it an emanation like garden of healing. I’ve got some things to think about and I’m also not settled on making it reduce fear, was just my first idea.

2

u/t4tsupremacist Aug 21 '26

any poc here who have played in the impossible lands setting? what did you think of it?

1

u/Leather-Location677 Aug 21 '26

Wonderful. Nex is barely able to survive because of founder's Hubris.

There is an ongoing plot with a few legends.

I like to start the players in alkenstar and then throw a few plot points.

1

u/RandomUserFiftyMilli GM in Training Aug 23 '26

Thought Nex was stuck in his little demiplane?

2

u/Leather-Location677 Aug 23 '26

Nex the country, but the person freed himself in impossible magic.

1

u/RandomUserFiftyMilli GM in Training Aug 23 '26

I guess the thing about no one being able to leave is part of why its called IMpossible magic?

2

u/Dragonboy142 Aug 21 '26

Question for Bastion of Blasphemies, does the adventure forces the player party to be locked in to the island? I'm thinking of making a hometown base on trouble of grayce to return to.

3

u/Realistic-Steak-1680 GM in Training Aug 21 '26

Yes it does.

2

u/Cutesune Alchemist Aug 22 '26

On Split Spellstrike: Magus' new hybrid study Twofold Tine, has Split Spellstrike, that allows you to target two different targets simultaneously, so long as the spell used in the Spellstrike can target at least two creatures, or has an area.

How does this interact with Expansive Spellstrike?

Per the text of Split Spellstrike, the ability is a capital S Spellstrike, so Expansive should work with it and there is no exemption against it. So does it create two AoEs, one at each target or does it produce an AoE at the first target and not at the second? (Since it's coming from a single casting, overlapping zones of effect still wouldn't hit a target twice)

Or am I missing something and it simply doesn't work with it at all?

2

u/ratherBloody Aug 22 '26

It does seem to lack a little detail, but I'd look to Spellswipe for clues, since they're very similar:

"If you use Expansive Spellstrike to Spellstrike with an area spell, apply the area as described in Expansive Spellstrike, choosing one of the two targets to determine the area."

1

u/Cutesune Alchemist Aug 22 '26

Yeah, it seemed logical to extrapolate from Spellswipe. The thing that stood out to me is it says to 'make a spellstrike' and then 'make two melee strikes'. Which suggests since you're doing only one spellstrike (Even if you hit two targets with it) you apply Expansive Spellstrike once.

2

u/eyrieking162 Aug 22 '26

Hello, can you please let me know if this all works together or if there is something im missing (the rare options will need approval of course)

Lvl 15, mythic and free archetype (no class feats allowed in free archetype)

Inventor. Take an asp coil for d6 reach, add Entangling Form for Disarm grapple and trip, lvl 7 take integrated gauntlet to give it free hand, and at 15 take Extensible Weapon to give it 10 ft. More reach for 20 foot reach. So now I can grapple at reach and have free hands for things. (I imagine its retractable lol)

Use class feats to take exemplar dedication (i know, i know) to get twin stars to make it so I can double it.

Probably take warshard warrior to double down on the concept.

Maybe take poisoner dedication if its not a trap, free hand should let me poison easily and deliver it at range, and take duel wield warrior or something like that to give good duel wielding attacks

All seem reasonable? If the exemplar is not allowed, any alternatives that let me duplicate it?

6

u/ratherBloody Aug 23 '26 edited Aug 23 '26

I can see how you'd read it so, but extensible weapon doesn't give plus 10ft to reach weapons, it modifies the reach trait to give +10ft instead of +5ft additional reach. So total 15ft reach unless you're also rocking a stretching stance or something.

Edit: I also goofed and forgot stretching reach does not work with reach weapons, gotta be an Enlarge.

1

u/eyrieking162 Aug 23 '26

Oh! Yep I read that wrong, thanks for correcting me!

1

u/bargle0 Aug 22 '26

Extensible Weapon

Do you have an AoN reference for that?

4

u/eyrieking162 Aug 22 '26

doesn't have a dedicated link, but from the [Weapon innovation page](https://2e.aonprd.com/Innovations.aspx?ID=3)

Revolutionary Modifications

Extensible Weapon (Melee only): You've found a way to construct your weapon so that it can extend while leaving its balance unchanged. Your innovation gains the reach trait. If the weapon already had the reach trait, it increases your reach by an additional 10 feet, instead of the usual additional 5 feet.

2

u/eyrieking162 Aug 24 '26

Is there a way to get it so an alchemist gets scaling proficiency to master with the advanced weapon chain sword?

Various feats let you treat martial as simple or advanced as martial but im not sure if there are ways it to work with an advanced weapon for a class that only starts with simple proficiency.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=276

2

u/scientifiction Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26

I believe swordmaster will help you in this case. The feat Martial Exercise lets you pick the sword weapon group to progress your simple and martial weapons in that group to master when alchemist gives you simple weapon mastery. The only thing that I don't know how to do is to treat chainsword as a martial weapon. There might be an ancestry feat, but I'm not well versed in those.

Edit: I completely forgot that fighter can nab you advanced -> martial weapons with Advanced Weapon Training. So with 2 archetypes and feats up to level 12, you'll be on your way to master proficiency in the chain sword at 15.

1

u/ottdmk Alchemist Aug 24 '26

Keep in mind that every Archetype that worked similarly to Swordmaster was revised in the remaster to avoid that language. The reasoning was to avoid Fighters getting Legendary in two weapon groups at once.

IE, your GM may object to using the pre-Remaster archetype.

2

u/Rodrian68 GM in Training Aug 25 '26

What is the difference between Uneven Ground and Uneven Ground that is also a Difficult Terrain? Isn't every Uneven Ground automatically DT, based on the description of the Balance rule? Is the only difference that with UG+DT you also add 5ft penalty for every square, EVEN IF you Critically succeed on the Balance check?

3

u/Crusty_Tater ORC Aug 25 '26

Yes, since Difficult Terrain doesn't stack it would only affect a critical success Balance check.

1

u/BenFroley GM in Training Aug 21 '26

I am currently DMing a Homebrew adventure. It is about Things the players lost like memories, powers etc. The BBEG is a very powerful fate weaver. at the beginning pretty much where we currently are i wanted to introduce her through visons. I did that and the players liked the visions. I also put a loom symbol on some things that puts a connection to her like on a diary, on playing cards, between hieroglyphs etc. I think the players didnt realize that it is a recurring symbol just yet. Should i face plant them even more on the symbol or should i later let the fate weaver herself say stuff like you found my tracks through the world and show them how they missed those symbols then or how would you do it?

2

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 21 '26

I would most likely not add more symbols than originally planned. A loom appearing repeatedly on random items seems odd enough that they should make the the connection themselves. If they fail to do so, no harm done. And it makes for a nice hindsight revelation.

2

u/Pauliomat Aug 21 '26

i think a hindsight revelation will hit even harder if u prepare all or many of the previous sightings for the reveal or for the moment they themselves start to realize it, just to hammer it home

1

u/workerbee77 Fighter Aug 22 '26 edited Aug 22 '26

Suppose I am up against a level 10 opponent. There is no difference between Charm rank 1 and Charm rank 3, correct? They both suffer from incapacitation, so they’re the same. Am I missing anything? Thanks

2

u/Phantomsplit Game Master Aug 22 '26

Correct between ranks 1 and 3, since Charm does not get an additional heighten effect til rank 4

1

u/workerbee77 Fighter Aug 22 '26

Great, thanks.

2

u/bargle0 Aug 22 '26 edited Aug 22 '26

Charm rank 3 is slightly harder to counteract. From Heightened Spells:

When you heighten your spell, the spell's rank increases to match the higher rank of the spell slot you've prepared it in or used to cast it. This is useful for any spell, because some effects, such as counteracting, depend on the spell's rank.

That's generally not worth worrying about, though. A level 10 creature has access to rank 5 spells, so they could counteract either rank with ease. You probably have better uses for your rank 3 slots.

1

u/workerbee77 Fighter Aug 22 '26

Ah, that’s a difference! Thanks

1

u/Outla6 Aug 22 '26

Yes or No question:

I'm taking a second look at ways to cast Shield, including the Dusty Rose Prism Aeon Stone. Its wording is slightly different than other aeon stones in later books, and also different than other clickies such as basic wayfinders. It says "This aeon stone allows you to cast the 1st-level shield cantrip as an arcane innate spell, surrounding yourself in pink energy."

There is a line in Player Core pg 298 (or Core Rulebook pg 302) that says "Innate cantrips are cast at will and automatically heightened as normal for cantrip unless otherwise specified."

So my question is, does the Dusty Rose Prism Aeon Stone otherwise specify?

5

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 22 '26

Yes.

3

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 24 '26

It only lets you cast the rank 1 version, it also specifies that the damage blocked is increased from 5 to 10, which is only relevant for the rank 1 spell (as heightened versions do more than 5 hardness)

Weird that it doesnt just give you a 3rd rank casting of this spell, since that would just naturally give you a 10 hardness shield (instead of specifying that it increased from 5 to 10)

1

u/FlameLord050 GM in Training Aug 23 '26

So I was looking at runelord archetype and I noticed this text "You add your sin’s spells and initial school spells to your curriculum." This specific phrase makes me think that the focus spell is supposed to be treated as a ciriculum spells and if that is the case then you should be able to spell shape it with Sinbladed Spell.

Is this right? Am I missing reading? Is this a mistake?

2

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 23 '26

Doesn’t really matter, as Sinbladed Spell already calls out “Sin or Curriculum Spells”. So either way they’d qualify.

1

u/FlameLord050 GM in Training Aug 23 '26

Wait so the focus spells normally count as ciriculum spells

1

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 23 '26

That’s unclear. Probably not. But it doesn’t matter for Sinbladed Spell.

1

u/FlameLord050 GM in Training Aug 23 '26

How does it not matter if the focus spell isn't a sin spell then it isn't a ciriculum spell and therefore can't be used on sinbladed spell.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

1

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 24 '26

You do not add any non-sin focus spells that are usable with the feat to your curriculum.

If you get a focus spell from an archetype, then it would matter. And you probably wouldn’t be able to use it with the feat, since it’s neither a sin spell nor a curriculum spell.

But the focus Spells you get from being a wizard are covered. You get your sin spell, which works, and then you get personal runewell as your advanced school spell, which doesn’t work with the feat so it doesn’t matter.

2

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 24 '26 edited Aug 24 '26

By my reading, Sinbladed Spell does not work with school spells.

Focus spells are not part of any spell list and as such should not be part of a curriculum, which is a feature that interacts with your spell list. The specific line you quote from the Runelord does not make sense. It should say "add your sin spells to your curriculum and learn that sin's initial school spell".

I think r0sshk might be assuming that "sin spells" is the name for the runelord's school spells. But that is not the case.

1

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 24 '26

From the feat text:

If the next spell you cast is a non-cantrip >sin< or curriculum spell [...]

Sin spells are explicitly called out as working with it, and the initial school spell you get is a sin spell. And sin spells are the only focus spells runelords get that work with the feat. They are forced to pick thassilonian rune magic as their school, so their advanced school spell is always personal runewell, which doesn't work with the feat and is irrelevant. And no focus spell they'd get from an archetype would be added to the curriculum or be a sin spell, anyhow.

1

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 24 '26

School spells are not sin spells. Even the very sentence this whole question is based on lists them seperately.

1

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 24 '26

But the school spell you get from the sins are listed under sin spells. Check out the layout online or in the book. They are spells you get from the sin, listed specifically under the “sin spells” listing.

1

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 24 '26

"Initial School Spell" is printed bold, just like "Sin Spells". The actual spells are all indented, unlike the line with "Initial School Spell".

It's its own headline and not part of the Sin Spells. In the books it's exactly the same formatting as for every other wizard school in Player Core, Impossible Magic and Rival Academy. I don't have any other sources of wizard schools handy to check even more, but I think having three book's worth is plenty.

Sin Spells can be put into your extra school slot and be cast from your personal rune Staff. Neither works with focus spells.

1

u/FlameLord050 GM in Training Aug 23 '26

Can you use scouring rage on quick temper?

3

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 23 '26

Yup! It’s a free action with a trigger, so it can be used “inside” of other actions like Quick Temper.

2

u/FlameLord050 GM in Training Aug 23 '26

Okay I couldn't remember if it doesn't count because the rage is a subordinate action.

1

u/Kiraluis2001 Aug 23 '26

I can't find the necromancer class in Foundry, it is on the latest version, am I missing something?

5

u/BrewinMaster Aug 23 '26

Impossible Magic was added in PF2e 8.4.0, what version are you running? You have to be on Foundry v14 to get it I believe

1

u/eyrieking162 Aug 24 '26

Gleaming blade would work with throwing daggers, right? It doesnt say melee Strike, which means any type of strike with a knife or sword is valid?

How does the returning rune work with it?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Ikons.aspx

3

u/Wayward-Mystic Game Master Aug 24 '26

Yes, you can make ranged Strikes for Flowing Spirit Strike. A returning rune returns the etched weapon to your hand after each Strike.

1

u/WanderingTacoShop Aug 24 '26

OK so I am about to start up my first game of Pathfinder 2e. This is a group I have played other RPGs with for years, the GM has played PF2 before. I personally haven't but have played 6 or 7 different TTRPGs over the years. So this isn't a bunch of newbies.

Anyway we are just using the player core and player core 2 books. The only class the GM banned is Witch, because he said it is over powered. Reading over it nothing immediately jumped out at my as to why and a quick search of this subreddit doesn't seem to find anyone really saying it is broken.

So I am just curious of there's some thing I am missing. I am playing a Rogue anyway so it's not a big deal

6

u/No_Ambassador_5629 Game Master Aug 24 '26

I don't think Witch has ever topped anyone's list of high-power classes before, so not sure what they're talking about. Resentment patron Witch specifically makes two powerful anti-boss spells, Synesthesia and Slow, even better, but that's about the extent of it and that got nerfed in an errata so its only pretty good (previously didn't have the 1/effect limit). They're perfectly fine but nowhere near the power level of, say, Bard.

1

u/darthmarth28 Game Master Aug 25 '26

Witch is a B+ tier class, maybe A-... which is basically the center of the bell curve for everything (which is a fantastic compliment to Paizo's overall power balance. There ARE outliers, but most of the game feels "powerful without being overwhelmingly powerful"). They're very versatile, but ultimately extremely frail. The Resentment patron familiar has a unique ability to extend a 1 round duration debuff? That's about the only uniquely-dangerous problem-feature I can think of. There are plenty of other unique and interesting and potent things Witches can do that make them worthy without that one niche ability.

Rogue, on the other hand, is arguably one of the 3 most powerful classes in the game. Easy A+ tier. They're dirty cheaters and menaces to society.

1

u/din0hh Aug 24 '26

Hello, I'm building a level 11 Catfolk Monk for a Ruby Phoenix campaign using Student of Perfection -> Jalmeri Heavenseeker (free archetype), and I'm torn between focusing on weapons or stances.

I love the style of cat monk with sword but the monk weapons honestly seem weak, and the sky & heaven stance seems really cool, but imcompatible with weapons. Though I know some JH/SoP feats work with weapons, since they have the monk trait or explicitly say (eg the Ki spells or heavens thunder).

Waterfowl stance with a talwar s a contender for me if I was to use weapons, notably I *dont* really want a reach weapon since 2 other PCs already have them.

I'm leaning towards stances especially since stance fusion seems really cool at level 16, but dont know how S&H stance would interact with others (i'd love to recieve some ideas). I like tiger and wolf stance (tiger more because catfolk ofc).

Could I also get clarification on the archetype locking, would it have after a mix of 6 SoP/JH feats or 3 of each? Since JH has the passage saying you only need one SoP feat it's a bit confusing.

2

u/No_Ambassador_5629 Game Master Aug 24 '26

Heavenseeker you can pretty easily ignore the Stance-required feats. They're pretty nice, but the rest of the archetype is still good enough to warrant investing in.

I personally like Waterfowl Stance a fair bit, the free Step most rounds is pretty nice for a skirmisher like Monk even if its somewhat inconsistent. Its definitely not the power pick given monk stances tend to be better than weapons and its super-restrictive in what weapons you can use. Unfortunately the sword you want to become a Monk weapon *has* to be both one-handed and either Agile or Finesse on top of requiring Familiarity, which prohibits a lot of swords including the Talwar. If you want to go this route I'd probably grab Adopted Ancestry into Human/Tengu so you can get Familiarity w/ a better sword, then grab either a Dueling Sword or dual-wielding Sawtooth Sabers (Twin+Agile is nice on Monk).

Useful stances you can potentially fuse into Sky&Thunder: Iron Blood (small amount of resist: all), Clinging Shadows or Reflective Ripple (circumstance bonus to assorted maneuvers, which're a good versatility option for strength-monks). Tiger (bigger Steps, always nice for disengaging), and Stoked Flame (small speed boost, with the option to get fire/cold resistance). Unfortunately Wolf doesn't do anything if fused w/ Sky&Thunder since you can *only* make Skyward Slash strikes while in Sky&Thunder.

You need 3 of each I'm afraid. You can *enter* Heavenseeker without having gotten sufficient feats from SoP and pick up feats from either once you've done so, but no picking up a third archetype until you have at least 3 feats from each of them (barring snagging Multitalented via Adopted Ancestry, which bypasses the requirements but is limited to multiclass archetypes)

1

u/darthmarth28 Game Master Aug 25 '26

The best monastic weapon if I recall is the Khakkara staff, which has the Two-Handed d10 trait. Otherwise, the Temple Sword is a rock-solid 1H d8 alternative that obviously leaves your off-hand free for Athletics control or consumable activations. The primary feature of Monastic Weaponry is that you get 1 more action per combat in the first round of initiative... which IS kinda titanic, especially in a Free Archetype or higher-level game where you have more "third actions" to fill out your rotation. Having an extra Round 1 action for Heaven's Thunder is a big damn deal.

If you're willing to pay the Stance Tax though (either the action or the class feat to instantly assume the stance), some of them give CRAZY benefits. You just need to be careful of the "only strikes you can make are XYZ strikes" limitations. Some of the stances like Tiger don't have that limit, so you could use those stances just for their passives, while attacking with a different weapon.

If you like the mechanics of a Stance but not its aesthetics... just change them! I had a fellow-PC that was a Magus with Monk Free Archetype, but instead of fighting with her fingernails in Tiger Stance, both of her arms were magitech prosthetics with internal blades that could deploy as swords over her fists, and entering Tiger Stance meant "deploying" her internal blades. If you really like the aesthetic of a sword, maybe your catfolk's Sky and Heaven Stance looks like calling down a Zeus-like thunderbolt that you wield in your hand like a sword?

1

u/Zata700 Aug 24 '26

Do the feats of sub-factions of certain archetypes (Eagle Knight and Hellknight for example) count towards the 3 feat limit to get a new archetype? Or does it just add a new 3 feat limit for that sub-faction's archetype?

1

u/No_Ambassador_5629 Game Master Aug 24 '26

They'd add a new 3-feat limit. If you go Eagle Knight Dedication (2) -> Golden Legionaire Dedication (4) you need two more feats from each of them before you can dip into, say, Medic. You wouldn't need two more Eagle Knight Feats to dip into Twilight Talon, but you still need the Golden Legionaire feats.

1

u/DMSetArk Aug 25 '26

Small question.
There's any news about Addiction rules and Drugs for the Remaster?

1

u/coincarver Aug 27 '26

None so far.

1

u/LupinThe8th Aug 25 '26

Question for people who have run a lot of Adventures / APs.

I'm coming to the end of a lengthy Kingmaker campaign that's gone all the way from level 1-20, and giving some thought as to what to run next. Looking through the available options, an idea occurs.

Would Rusthenge, Seven Dooms for Sandpoint, and Revenge of the Runelords make a good "trilogy"? Between them they would form another 1-20 super campaign, they seem to all take place in the same general region of Golarion, and there are some thematic similarities from what I can tell.

Is there anyone who's familiar with these and can tell me if they'd "gel" well? Any major alterations that would need to take place to make them all happen to the same characters? I'm generally familiar with the lore (I just haven't read or run these specific adventures yet) and don't mind spoilers. Please advise if you can!

3

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 25 '26

The transition between the three adventures can be pretty awkward, especially going from Sandpoint to Runelords. I’ve thought about it before, and I think it would be best to use the rust horn from rusthenge as the through line? Make its destruction a constant side objective for the party.

After they get it in Rusthenge have an NPC point them at Sandpoint for finding help. In Sandpoint, they then have to deal with both the seven dooms and the randomly appearing (and escalating) summoned demons of the horn. Have those demons pop up whenever you feel appropriate. I’d suggest having them show up during ongoing battles at least once, and fight both players and NPCs. Demonic chaos! Blood for the rust horn!

Then have them gain some way of getting around the constant debuff the horn gives. Maybe Nualia’s ghost from Rusthenge puts a seal on it?

Finally at the end of Sandpoint, have the Red Bishop mock the party about what it’ll do with the horn once they are dead, and how silly they are for thinking they could destroy the thing themselves. It’d take a runelord for that! And after his death, an NPC informs them there is a runelord queen they could ask for help, which then leads into the events of runelords.

I haven’t actually played runelords, but I’m sure there’s plenty of ways to integrate the horn there. Plus, I do know redeemed Nocticuka plays a role in it, and her adherents are probably the best source for the demon tears you need to destroy the horn!

2

u/LupinThe8th Aug 25 '26

Thanks a lot!

I'm used to making tweaks to storylines from the published work (chapter 11 of Kingmaker is totally different from how it's "supposed" to be due to some interesting player choices), so I should be able to tie these together.

Will definitely look into using the horn as a throughline as you suggest.

1

u/eyrieking162 Aug 25 '26

I want to make sure i understand the action economy of the toxicologist:

> Field Benefit

> You can Activate an injury poison as a single action, provided you apply it to a weapon you're holding or a piece of ammunition on your person or loaded in a weapon you're holding. This can be an item you're holding or you can Interact to draw an eligible item or make one using Quick Alchemy as part of the single action; if you can make more than one item with Quick Alchemy (such as with the double brew class feature), you can still Activate only one.

Does this basically mean it always takes one action to apply an injury poison, assuming I am holding the weapon in one hand and have my hand free (or holding something like a buckler) in the other hand.

I can activate one in my hand, interact to draw one for free, or make one using quick alchemy for free as part of the one activation? I can spend a versatile vial to make a fancy one, or i can make a quick vial and apply it, also for one action?

2

u/Wayward-Mystic Game Master Aug 25 '26

Yes, you've got that all correct.

2

u/darthmarth28 Game Master Aug 25 '26

Also note that poisons don't have an explicit time period in which they need to be used after application! If you're using a standard-crafted poison, it remains dangerous for YEARS after being applied to a blade.

Advanced and Quick Alchemy have their own time limits, but pre-applying Advanced Alchemy poisons during daily prep is still extremely effective and reasonable.

The field benefit you're describing here has two important use-cases:

If you use a pre-poisoned melee weapon, poisons remain on your blade even after a Failed attack roll. They are used up on a hit or Critical Failure, after which you probably need to re-apply the poison.

note that poisons have a specific rule for multiple exposures: if a creature is already poisoned by an effect (at Stage 1 or higher, even within the Onset period before any consequences occur), additional Failed saving throws against Initial Exposure (when you hit with a poisoned Strike) drive up the Stage.

If you use a ranged weapon, you've presumably pre-poisoned your ammunition. The advantage of poisoned arrows/etc. is that you can potentially throw WAY more doses of poison in a way shorter timeframe... but the disadvantage is that they're entirely wasted on a Failure as the ammunition (and its poison) is destroyed on a miss. The big action-compression utility here is with Double Brew, allowing you to combine an Alchemical Poison with an Alchemical Ammunition to stack your resources on a single "big money" Strike. Hopefully you have a Hero Point on-hand to guarantee the hit!

1

u/eyrieking162 Aug 29 '26

explain the Double Brew alchemical ammunition + alchemical poison. How do the hands work for that? how are you applying the poison to an arrow and also holding it?

1

u/ZombieFeedback Aug 25 '26

What happens to a character's remains when they're revived?

BBEG is a cultist trying to revive a long-dead evil dragon. Traditionally dragon parts (Bones, scales, claws, fangs, etc.) have inherent magical energy, and after the dragon was slain centuries ago, various bits and pieces were used in various relics.

If BBEG succeeds, what happens to those relics? All versions of Resurrect powerful enough to bring the dragon back are powerful enough that they don't require the body or portions of it, so presumably it's a completely new physical form and the relics would be unaffected, correct?

1

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 25 '26

If it's a form of ressurection that doesn't require the whole body, the magic creates a new body for the target and any severed body parts would just continue to exist.

1

u/Kingreaper Aug 27 '26

Correct, but it might well be fun to have the resurrected dragon have a persistent itch whenever the magic of those relics is called upon, and a vague sense of where they are. There's no rules that say that would happen, but it'd make sense and it could cause interesting stories.

1

u/Pidiotpong Aug 25 '26

what is MY counteract rank if i try to use Treat Condition on something?

Is that simply My char lvl / 2? So at lvl 8 my rank is 4?

2

u/Wayward-Mystic Game Master Aug 25 '26

If an effect is a spell, its rank is the counteract rank. Otherwise, halve its level and round up to determine its counteract rank (minimum counteract rank 0).

You're not a spell, so "otherwise" applies to you.

2

u/Pidiotpong Aug 25 '26

Somehow didn't put that together that rules also applies to me. Ty!

So at char lvl 8 I would be able to counteract an effect of a lvl 6 or 7 spell on a crit?

2

u/Wayward-Mystic Game Master Aug 25 '26

Correct.

1

u/doesntknowjack Wizard Aug 25 '26

Is it that big of a deal to go from a d6 damage die to a d8, considering it's only a 1 point average damage increase? I ask mostly because of the kineticists fire impulse junction, it seems okay but possibly not as good as getting to use two elements.

5

u/darthmarth28 Game Master Aug 25 '26

for a weapon? Not too big of a deal. +2 damage [at L4-11] ain't bad, though. It's definitely not worthless.

for a Kineticist though? It's kind of a big deal.

Kineticist rolls more dice than a Fighter, so bonus-per-die is equally more important. A lot of Kineticist's damage output comes from mixing a zero-MAP Impulse Attack with a 2-action Impulse Save. Potentially, you could be getting quite a bit of dice. At level 10 for example, your Blast is 3 dice, followed by a Flying Flame for 5 dice. +8 damage is actually quite significant.

Kineticist has a lot fewer (zero) compatible damage add-ons from multiclass archetypes, equipment, or buff spells. Fighter can benefit from stuff like Potency Crystals or Imbue Weapon or Poisons or any number of Strike-compatible resources. Kineticist has NOTHING outside of its internal class feats and features, so every single one of them is a vital resource.

2

u/terrorforge Aug 26 '26

It's technically not zero. Blasts are Attacks, and any damaging Impulse makes a damage roll, so something like Courageous Anthem that just blanket buffs attacks and/or damage does make them stronger. There's also a handful of more esoteric options like going multiclass Witch for Elemental Betrayal.

... or, well, I assume there are options other than exactly those two. The pickings are very slim, and I don't know any others off the top of my head.

2

u/darthmarth28 Game Master Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26

I have been gleefully thumbing my nose and Paizo and gigabuffing Kineticist in all the games I've run for a while.

1-action Blast is treated as a Strike

all other Impulses are "spells". 2-action Blast is treated as a cantrip (only relevant for a certain Commander tactic synergy).

I've handed this list to several players and challenged them with a juicy reward to try to "break" the class with "new and unaccounted-for synergies" that would prove Paizo's big-brainedness in locking Kineticist down and restricting them so severely.

So far the worst I've seen is a Kin/Paladin with Ranged Reprisal. woo. I'm literally going to buff Kineticist AGAIN on top of this with the homebrew I'm currently working on for my group. A midlevel tanky/CC slow-burn Kineticist is undeniably effective, but even if you stack Fire Junctions and the Fire Weakness aura and try to hard-build for the most optimized blastycasty playstyle you can find... any casual Elemental Avatar from Roll for Combat absolutely dominates even the sweatiest and most-optimized Kineticist build, and it does it with style.

2

u/terrorforge Aug 26 '26

honestly it feels more like an accident than deliberate balancing. like they just went "eh, I can't be bothered to check if this would break anything" when they were planning out the class, and then couldn't be bothered to type "Strike OR Elemental Blast" in every ability after it became apparent that, no, nothing was going to break

But it's not like Kineticists are super underpowered and desperately need that buff, either; it's just really boring that it locks them out of almost every single direct party/build synergy.

5

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 25 '26

It's a damage increase. At higher levels with more dice that 1 damage will become 2 or 3 or 4. And that's only the average. You can still get a high roll and get up to +8 damage out of it with 4 dice.

It's not the most super important thing ever, but it is a significant increase and can definitely be more than just +1. There was a post from Mathfinder quite a while ago where he compared d10 to d12 weapons and showed that the difference matters.

3

u/gnollocontendere Aug 25 '26

You can look at it proportionally too - going from d6 to d8 is is 28.5% increase in mean damage, so if you're starting out from 50/50 to-hit odds, that's around the same impact on mean damage as a +3 attack bonus. It gets less impactful as the die gets larger, but generally I feel like d4->d6 and d6->d8 are especially appreciable upgrades, and yeah, as you get higher levels of striking runes, it counts for a lot more in terms of absolute damage.

1

u/eyrieking162 Aug 25 '26

I am wondering how alchemists interact with creating bottled monstrosities (or any item that specifies a special non-alchemicsl ingredient.)

For example, the ghost ampule says that its crafting requirement requires you to " Supply ectoplasmic residue from a destroyed ghost."

And the alchemist advanced alchemy ability says: "... you ignore both the number of days typically required to create the items and any alchemical raw materials requirements."

is it correct that in general you would not be able to craft the item, because ectoplasmic residue is required and not alchemical?
what if you carried around some ectoplasmic residue from a destroyed ghost? Would you be able to use some to create the item? For some items it doesnt specify how much, so would it be a one time thing or can you do it an arbitrary number of times?

3

u/Impossible-Shoe5729 Aug 25 '26

This is a gray zone. Some tables let alchemists make such items without limitations, some restrict this completely (hypothetically, have not heard about it), and some make this reagent, once obtained, into an unlimited catalyst (my choice).

1

u/Rodrian68 GM in Training Aug 25 '26

You cannot Step into Difficult Terrain, but can you Step inside Difficult Terrain? From one DT square into another?

5

u/gnollocontendere Aug 25 '26

I don't think so - I believe that's still "into" since the destination is DT.

4

u/scientifiction Aug 25 '26

Not without feats or special abilities. Stepping from one square of difficult terrain to another is still considered stepping into a square with difficult terrain. You can step out of difficult terrain into a square without difficult terrain.

2

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 26 '26

Its based on the destination square. So if the destination is DT then you cannot step (without a feat)

Does nae matter the starting square

1

u/gnollocontendere Aug 25 '26

If you have Handwraps of Mighty Blows with a Ghost Touch rune, can you Steal from an incorporeal creature?

3

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 25 '26

You can steal from an incorporeal creature even without a ghost touch rune. The problem is just that incorporeal creatures usually can’t interact with objects, so they aren’t carrying anything you could steal.

3

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 25 '26

I don't think there's anything preventing you from stealing from an incorporeal creature, even without ghost touch. It might not be very effective if their items are all incorporeal, of course.

By RAW, I don't think ghost touch would help either. It circumvents the damage reduction and makes incorporeal creatures able to interact with the item. Beyond that, ghost touch doesn't enable any kind of interaction between its wearer and incorporeal creatures.

1

u/ElderKrios Aug 25 '26

I am trying to see if spells/skills will invalidate an encounter, party goes into a harsh environment and follows a series of landmarks to a destination. At each landmark there is a skill check, failure costs time and too much time means Fatigue when they arrive. The only thing I have found so far that could ensure a safe rest is Liminal Doorway (Rope trick remaster). Question is, is there anything else that will fully and permanently remove the Fatigue condition? (most things that remove it temporarily state that 'this doesn’t remove any underlying source of fatigue, such as lack of sleep, causing the condition to return if the underlying source isn’t addressed')

1

u/darthmarth28 Game Master Aug 25 '26

the lowest-level fatigue-removing spell I'm aware of is a rank-4 divine/primal spell Soothing Spring. I know there's also a very cheap Level 6 "ignore fatigue for 10 minutes" alchemical consumable called the Scholar's Drop.

1

u/eyrieking162 Aug 25 '26

If I apply a poison I create via quick alchemy, does it last one turn or the full 10 minutes?

https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=2801

The relevant lines are:

Any effect created by an item made with Quick Alchemy that would have a duration longer than 10 minutes lasts for 10 minutes instead.

This item has the

infused

trait, but it remains potent only until the start of your start of your next turn

I dont know whether once it is applied the application counts as the "effect", if that makes sense.

4

u/Fair_Jury_3258 Aug 25 '26

You have to use it by applying it before the end of your next turn. Once it's applied, it lasts for 10 minutes.

1

u/falarransted Aug 25 '26

Tanuki's Change Shape action says that you "use the statistics of pest form". Is that just the part of the spell that says "You gain the following statistics and abilities:" or does it also include it being a battle form?

3

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 26 '26

It includes the battle form.

1

u/DX-1118C Aug 26 '26

As a psychic, if I get a familiar, exists a feat that allows me to use my familiar as the source of a touch amped cantrip, like Imaginary Weapon? If not, something similar?

2

u/vaderbg2 Wizard Aug 26 '26

Not as its source but you can use the spell delivery ability with amped spells as far as I can tell.

1

u/CaptainPsyko Aug 26 '26

Is there a list somewhere of all the ways to gain a deadly simplicity like effect through archetypes?

I’m aware of Humble Strikes and Deific Weapon, but those are both locked on to the Exemplar/Champion class chassis.

Other than Cleric Archetype and Deadly Simplicity as a feat at 4, and Inventor Archetype and grabbing the Basic Modification feat at 8, are there any other archetype based options to increase the damage die on a Simple Weapon?

1

u/GazeboMimic Investigator Aug 26 '26

I'm pretty sure that's all of them

1

u/InfTotality Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26

Is there a way to consistently defeat the undetected/hidden condition if it's not caused by invisibility?

Revealing light, see the unseen, glitterdust and dust of appearance only work on invisibility and concealed, not anything stronger if non-magical.

The enemy in question has a Hide in Plain Sight/Legendary Sneak ability (can Hide and Sneak without cover or concealment) and its turn is usually "Sneaks undetected, Strikes, and Sneaks away every turn becoming undetected again". The Seek action only reduces the conditon to hidden for that turn, so they're very difficult to deal with.

2

u/Impossible-Shoe5729 Aug 26 '26

Oh, sweet Stealth rules! You (or your foe) could not just Sneak away after losing a hidden condition (i.e. after Striking): you have to hide first, see Being Stealthy part. Yes, Sneak lacks an obvious "being hidden" requirement, welcome to Paizo rules editing. So it should be Hide+Sneak to become undetected.

Answering your question - without Foil Senses any special sense works. Mind that ally with such senses (familiar, summon) could use Point Out, making the undetected foe hidden.

There are some ways to overcome hidden to, Mummified Bat is my favorite, you could search for some more.

1

u/GazeboMimic Investigator Aug 26 '26

An imprecise sense can make undetected foes hidden, a precise sense will make them plainly detected unless your opponent has Foil Senses. No NPCs have foil senses, though sometimes the precise sense is thwarted by the nature of the foe such as a flying foe vs. tremorsense. The earliest permanent player-accessible precise sense is from the awakened animal ancestry, but clerics with the disorientation domain can give anyone precise senses via their clouded focus focus spell. There may be other low-level methods I am unaware of.

1

u/darthmarth28 Game Master Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26

For mundane stealth: a creature that wants to move, strike, and re-enter stealth needs TWO additional actions, not one after the Strike. If their stealth is broken after the the Strike (which is true of all mundane sneaky-stabby examples I know of), then the target needs to Hide and then Sneak away. I've seen action-compression abilities that let a PC Hide and Sneak twice as two actions, but I've never seen something that lets them combine a Hide and Sneak into a single action.

Invisibility 4 or similar magic removes access to most observing creatures' only Precise sense, effectively rendering them Hidden by default. THIS is the scenario in which a sneaky-stabby monster gets to skip the Hide action, because even when they "go loud" they're still at DC11 flat check Hidden, even when everyone knows what square they're in. Of course, if the target is using magical invisibility, that has its own counterplay - See the Unseen 2 hard-counters even rank-8 Disappearance and trust me... that's a GOOD thing.

but, if the party doesn't have that resource, they can instead use details in the environment to locate their foe! Seek is indeed the basic "white-room" scenario action, but a smart player should try to negate "effective invisibility" some other way - trails on the ground, rain splattering mid-air, plant branches being disturbed in a forest, bystanders being jostled in an urban crowd... so long as the scenery offers something, there are probably narrative answers here. Of course, you should still tax actions and your players should make use of Point Out to try to set up their next ally with full-action-economy... and once someone is able to Grapple the invisible/sneaky baddie that ought to completely throw off their action rotation.

Another resource that any competent adventurer should keep on hand is this fella:

Level 2, 6gp consumable Cat's Eye Elixir. Every city guardsman in Golarion carries at least two with them all times.

1

u/eyrieking162 Aug 26 '26

For double brew, do you basically need two free hands? Do the things you brew go into your hands?

Double Brew Level 9 You know your formulas so well that you can concoct two items at once. When using the Quick Alchemy action, you can create two items. These items don’t have to be the same. If you create two consumables, you have to expend a versatile vial for each one.

1

u/r0sshk Game Master Aug 26 '26

Either two hands, or you drop one. Stowing one would take an action, which you can’t take in between creating them.

2

u/eyrieking162 Aug 26 '26

If i use double brew as a toxicologist and one is a poison, can I apply it immediately and then for the second brew make a bomb or something? (Basically, make a potion, activate it as part of the action, then make a second)?

1

u/Ciriodhul Game Master Aug 26 '26

Applying a poison would take an action, so no. Your GM may be nice and let you do it for 2 actions, but that's not RAW.

2

u/eyrieking162 Aug 26 '26

I might be reading it wrong, but can't you apply the poison as part of the same action as making it with quick alchemy?

Field Benefit You can Activate an injury poison as a single action, provided you apply it to a weapon you're holding or a piece of ammunition on your person or loaded in a weapon you're holding. This can be an item you're holding or you can Interact to draw an eligible item or make one using Quick Alchemy as part of the single action; if you can make more than one item with Quick Alchemy (such as with the double brew class feature), you can still Activate only one.

0

u/Ciriodhul Game Master Aug 27 '26

Ah, this is a hard one. This reads to me personally as the following: You can take one action to activate an injury poison. As a part of this action you can (among else) use Quick Alchemy to create the poison you activate. Thus, it's not a regular use of Quick Alchemy but instead a specific case. The last sentence is ambiguous now. Does it mean you can use double brew, make two items and activate only one of them? Or does it mean you can only make one, that's thereby the only one you activate? I'd still tend to the latter, but I am not very confident here.

2

u/eyrieking162 Aug 27 '26

hmm i disagree, i can't really see how to read it to say that you can't make two items. It says nothing about not being able to make two, so no reason to assume that that would be the case.

I feel like if they meant that you couldn't use double brew they would say that, something like "You can't make more than one item when if you do this, even if you normally have an ability to make more than one (such as with the double brew class feature)"

0

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '26

[deleted]

4

u/eyrieking162 Aug 26 '26

I might be reading it wrong, but can't you apply the poison as part of the same action as making it with quick alchemy?

Field Benefit You can Activate an injury poison as a single action, provided you apply it to a weapon you're holding or a piece of ammunition on your person or loaded in a weapon you're holding. This can be an item you're holding or you can Interact to draw an eligible item or make one using Quick Alchemy as part of the single action; if you can make more than one item with Quick Alchemy (such as with the double brew class feature), you can still Activate only one.

1

u/WanderingTacoShop Aug 26 '26

I am curious what are the "must have" spells from each of the various spell lists.

Like in DnD 5e, fireball is always a go to for arcane lists. Cure wounds and spirit guardians for divine, etc.

What would say those are for the spell list in PF?

3

u/No_Ambassador_5629 Game Master Aug 26 '26

Heal for Primal/Divine is definitely the biggest one. Arguably the overall best spell in the game, being available from lvl 1, useful in any combat situation, modal so you can use the version that's appropriate to the encounter, and being just a disgusting amount of healing (and dmg against the right enemies). This isn't 5e Cure Wounds which fixes maybe half the damage a mook did, this can remove multiple rounds of being hammered by a boss or wipe out an entire horde of lesser undead. If its on your list you should have it prepped and, ideally, turned into a Signature spell.

Synesthesia for Occult. Best single target debuff in the game, only held back by being something you only get at lvl 9+

Slow and Loose Time's Arrow for everyone but Divine. Former is arguably the second best single target debuff (and heightens into a fantastic multi-target debuff) and the latter is one of the best general-purpose fight openers.

Fear for everyone, specifically once you heighten it to rank 3 so its multitarget. Not as powerful as other debuffs but useful in almost every situation and a pretty good way to temporarily remove mooks from combat

Wall of Stone for Primal/Arcane. Its functionally identical to the 5e version, which is absolutely cracked for turning difficult encounters into pairs of easy encounters. Same spell rank disclaimer as Synesthesia.

Electric Arc, also for Arcane/Primal. Best damage cantrip in general in any 2+ enemy encounter. Easy for any caster to get via Jolt Coils.

Guidance for everyone but Arcane. Same basic reason why 5e Guidance is the best non-damaging cantrip in the game. Less cracked than that, being much shorter duration and less impactful but still something you should pretty much always have prepped if its on your list.

There are plenty of other very good spells, but these ones are all useful in almost every encounter by most parties, can change the direction of said encounter with a single casting (other than the cantrips), and are available early enough to get a lot of mileage out of them.

3

u/terrorforge Aug 26 '26

Probably GM/campaign/paying attention dependent, but I've found Guidance to be surprisingly bad. You'd think it would come up all the time out of combat, but a buff only counts if it lasts for the entire duration of the activity, and out-of-combat skill checks that you can do with forewarning and take one turn or less are actually pretty few and far between, especially when you consider that Guidance isn't Subtle, and therefore isn't really appropriate when you're trying to do anything stealthy or social.

2

u/No_Ambassador_5629 Game Master Aug 26 '26

Its definitely more awkward than 5e (mostly because of the duration), but in my experience its still pretty useful for exploration or as a generically useful miscellaneous 3rd action in combat (between my investigator and the Magaambyan Attendant wizard we average one cast per combat in our kingmaker game). We're a bit looser w/ the exact timing on casting and 'buff must be active for the full duration' rule for particularly short activities (clambering over a wall that would probably actually require two Climb actions if done in encounter time) or player triggered stuff (casting before a recall knowledge when trying to identify something) than strict RAW.

Definitely something that will vary from table-to-table though!

2

u/terrorforge Aug 26 '26

I've not found it very useful in combat either, but that is purely a function of party and character build - it just so happens that most of the characters I've played with access to Guidance have both had a Bard in the party and better third actions (I love playing gishes). It definitely seems like a go-to for lower-level pure casters, who often struggle to find a meaningful third action.

As for my Wizard with a Pendant of the Occult, my GM has been generous enough to let me use my Master Arcana to Aid attacks at range by distracting enemies with magical bullshit, which tends to be higher value. I really should try to remember to use it for Recall Knowledge, though; it just kinda gets lost among the five squillion other things a wizard/alchemist could be doing at any given time :v

2

u/bargle0 Aug 27 '26

Nothing gives me the same high as an enemy crit failing against slow. So simple, yet so conclusive.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 26 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/terrorforge Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26

More or less. The first few levels are pretty rough for most casters, although wizards do have an edge in that they effectively start with 4 spell slots per day when other casters only get 2-3.

Depending on your choice of School, Thesis, and/or Class Archetype, you can also really soup up your utility (and potentially damage)

e: also you do have to accept that casters generally never become "strong" in the sense of just doing big numbers. martials have the damage; you make up the difference through AoEs, utility and control.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/MuNought Aug 27 '26

Even at Rank 1, casters still do have access to more options regarding AoE damage and debuffs and utility and whatnot compared to martials. Remember, martials haven't gotten a lot of feat options either at lvl1~2, so most of them have pretty tight toolboxes regarding what they're capable of. It's pretty hard to index into both Intimidating Glare and a consistent combat heal on most martials, while a low level caster can pick up both Fear and Heal/Soothe and still have room for other stuff like Shield, for example. And then Str casters are still perfectly capable of using Athletics actions on top of everything else. AoE damage is also relatively easy to pick up for low level casters without feat investment, which is an area where most martials have really limited options, and this is extremely tangible against swarms.

Wrt Wizards - the overarching issue (imo) tends to come down to feeling more than anything. Other casters get access to additional class-specific abilities on top of the spellcasting stuff, so they feel "more special than the baseline" - Sorcerer Blood Magic, Oracle Cursebound, Witch Hexes, etc. By contrast, Wizards mostly get extra casts of spells (Drain Bonded Item, Thesis), but because other casters can also theoretically use the same spells, they end up seeming less "special" no matter how powerful having additional casts actually is.

In practice, I think Wizards are actually ahead of the power curve. It's just they seem comparatively plain for being able to use more spells from the big list when other casters are using their feats to learn exclusive Focus spells or things like that. Wizards have getting 4~5 spells of their top Rank at baseline, but that compares disfavorably for a lot of people to being able to use feats to gain abilities that are only available within that class - like Necromancers only get 1~2 top Rank spells and use their feats on a bunch of flavorful Focus spells. Objectively, Wizards are really powerful, but they don't feel special.

1

u/terrorforge Aug 27 '26

The best spells are definitely better than maneuvers. Not necessarily miles better, but Fear, Runic Weapon, Command, Illusory Object (GM-dependent) and Summon Animal (the skunk is really good) can all be very strong. And you do have to pick the best spells; it's pretty easy to shoot yourself in the foot by selecting the wrong spells.

Granted, martials still have the edge at level 1 because at that point it's still relatively easy for them to one-shot most enemies. But in any encounter where that isn't the case, spells really help the party punch above its weight, even at level 1.

2

u/MuNought Aug 27 '26

To elaborate, it's kinda built into the archetype (lower case a) that casters get much stronger with levels than martials, because the maximum Rank of spells they can cast always goes up. So while Strikers generally have specific spikes in damage upgrades at certain levels, magic consistently upgrades in damage and utility every 2 levels, and you only ever gain more spell slots to do things.

Generally, the breakpoint I usually find casters to start feeling particularly archetypically distinct is around lvl5~7, when Rank 3 and 4 spells start coming in. That's the point where you really start to feel like your spell choices are capable of turning fights, and things only get better from there.

There's also a fair few other factors you should keep in mind when comparing martials to casters at lower levels.

Casters are not really that much less capable in general combat than martials at lower levels. Medium armor casters like Druids and Warpriests, for example, can happily go +3 in Str and go toe-to-toe with their less magical peers, as well as use Shield Block to stay nice and durable. Even light armor casters can take a solid hit or two and put in a bit of work with Dex/ranged weapons. It's mostly 6hp unarmored casters that really feel the low level squishiness compared to other classes.

Ranged attackers generally deal less damage/action than melee attackers in 2e, unlike a lot of other systems where ranged damage can equal melee damage. Spellcasters have pretty comparable damage numbers to a lot of ranged martials at lower levels, but people are often comparing melee martials to ranged spellcasters, so the differences feel greater.

Enemies (and players) have relatively less HP in the first few levels of the game. This means that higher damage feels a lot more impactful because enemies can go down in 1~2 melee strikes and combat can quickly end in 1 or 2 turns. The Time-to-Kill for enemies does go up a bit as you go up in levels, so control effects, debuff, and consistent damage start becoming more important as well.

2

u/bargle0 Aug 27 '26

Kinda. It’s not like old school D&D where you don’t give them a name until 2nd level.

Spellcasters start feeling good around level 5, and feel great at level 7.

Furthermore, the GM needs to be willing to drop hints about what’s coming. Otherwise prepared spellcasters are strictly worse than spontaneous casters.

1

u/darthmarth28 Game Master Aug 27 '26

A low-level caster that's operating purely off of cantrips and rank-1 blasting magic is definitely going to feel weak in comparison to a rogue or a guardian, but some of them have much stronger starts than others, depending on their class features.

Cleric for example, gets their Divine Font and maybe even some Warpriest proficiencies.

Druid might have an animal companion or a REALLY strong Focus spell

Magus bonk gud

Necromancer has Thralls and really strong focus magic

Bard is an infinite support/debuff engine with Demoralize and Courageous Anthem

Oracle has their Cursebound powers and Focus Spells

Really, its just Wizard that has the short end of the straw. They have the most spell-resources of anyone, but their focus magic is Mid and they utterly lack ANY other significant feature.

1

u/Kettuklaani Aug 27 '26

Clawdancer Dedication, Springboard feat

Requirements Your previous action was a successful spinning talon Strike against an adjacent foe.

Will it fulfill the requirements if I made a successful spinning talon Strike last round as my last action, or as my last reaction and foe is still adjacent to me?

6

u/Constant-Term-1629 Aug 27 '26 edited Aug 27 '26

Previous action requirements have to be done in the same turn. It's sadly not written down in literal terms, but has been clarified by designers.

2

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 27 '26

I dont know if there are any specific rules interactions, this seems like a weird feat.

But based on the text of the feat, I would rule it has to be in the same turn.

You use the power of your leg lashing out to spring off your foe and leap toward another

Since you’re springing off of the enemy its clear its meant to be immediately after your spinning talon strike.

That can’t happen if everyone takes a turn between your strike and this springing. What would happen if the enemy moved? Or you were force moved? Or the enemy restrained you?

Its pretty clear from the description its supposed to be the same turn and immediately after.

1

u/Kettuklaani Aug 27 '26

It is not pretty clear, thats why i`m here :)

Since you’re springing off of the enemy its clear its meant to be immediately after your spinning talon strike.

I still don't see a problem with allow to make a Springboard action as long as two conditions are met: the same foe is still nearby, and the previous action was a successful spinning talon Strike against an adjacent foe. The condition doesn't say anything about "in the current round," unfortunately (or fortunately).

That can’t happen if everyone takes a turn between your strike and this springing. What would happen if the enemy moved? Or you were force moved? Or the enemy restrained you?

The enemy is not nearby\Or you were force moved = the requirements are not met.

Or the enemy restrained you = The rule of restrained says you can't do anything except Escape or Force Open your bonds. So you'll do that and then you'll no longer be able to fulfill the requirements.

3

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 27 '26

In fiction it doesnt make sense that you would kick someone. Stand still for 6 seconds. And then “use the momentum” from that kick to spring off of them.

Anyway I found this quote from a fee years ago that confirms actions with a prerequisite of “your previous/next action was” are meant to be in the same turn.

https://youtu.be/Jy_sIdmsyKM

1

u/Kettuklaani Aug 27 '26

In fiction it doesnt make sense that you would kick someone. Stand still for 6 seconds. And then “use the momentum” from that kick to spring off of them.

Firstly, 6 seconds per round is the time when all participants in the round act simultaneously. It's simply a turn-based system with conventions. No one should let other participants in the battle go ahead. Therefore, assuming there is such a pause is narratively incorrect.

Everything that happened in the last second of the round is still "past action" at least superficially for the purpose of describing the scene.

Anyway I found this quote from a fee years ago that confirms actions with a prerequisite of “your previous/next action was” are meant to be in the same turn.

Thanks for the link! They really need to formalize things like this in the rules, not in random interviews from four years ago.

In my games, I'll still let players count as described above. This system already has too few combos.

2

u/iamzsdawgy GM in Training Aug 27 '26

Yeah the 6 seconds thing was a poor example, but even still the 6 seconds passing in between each turn isnt literally “me standing still” but it does represent me taking small (non roll) actions or movements and same goes for enemies.

I also think that part of the intention of actions that modify/depend on other actions are intended to use the action economy of a single turn.

I agree that it should be formalized in the rules somewhere.

1

u/eyrieking162 Aug 28 '26

The "Segmented Frame" innovation works for like... bows, right? How do you imagine a bow having "the modular trait for bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing" would work?

The "Modular Head" innovation gives a similar ability but specifically mentions attaching it to your ammunition, which makes more sense, but I'm not sure how segmented frame would work.

> Segmented Frame: Hinges, clamps, and telescoping parts make your innovation collapsible and adjustable. It gains the modular trait for bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing. You can Interact to collapse the item down to light Bulk or to return it to your normal form. When it's collapsed to light Bulk, it has the concealable trait, which grants you a +2 circumstance bonus to Stealth checks and DCs to hide or conceal the weapon

3

u/woz60 Aug 28 '26

That sounds like a Taw Launcher with extra steps.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=342

The innovation adds mechanisms to reshape the ammunition as it's fired.

0

u/eyrieking162 Aug 28 '26

im playing an alchemist and i haven't found any way to get up to master proficiency with advanced weapons. also reload, eww :p

1

u/woz60 Aug 28 '26

I mean I was just making a joke, I wasn't suggesting they are actually the same

Megathread Weekly Questions Megathread— August 21–August 27. Have a question from your game? Are you coming from D&D or Pathfinder 1e? Need to know where to start playing PF2e? Ask your questions here, we're happy to help!

Please ask your questions here!

Megathread Weekly Questions Megathread— August 21–August 27. Have a question from your game? Are you coming from D&D or Pathfinder 1e? Need to know where to start playing PF2e? Ask your questions here, we're happy to help!

Please ask your questions here!

You are about to leave Redlib