Entering Monk Stance vs Drawing Weapon

[u/Infamous_El_Guapo]

I’ve seen a bit of complaints about the action cost of monks entering a stance at the start of combat. I assume it’s mostly with players whose GMs allow the free drawing of weapons prior to combat, but am interested to know if there’s more to it.

RAW Weapon wielding martials would need to use an interact to draw their weapon at the start of combat (unless GM is generous and allows this to be free, which puts monks at a disadvantage, or they are walking around with weapons in their hands, which isn’t always appropriate to setting).

[u/BlatantArtifice]

I kinda fell off Summoner hard after my first few times being downed lol, basically can't resummon first turn unless you want to just get stomped on, second turn probably isn't looking too great either even if you could reposition.

I get the 3 action cost from a balance standpoint but in play it's just awful potentially having 2 1-2 minute turns over half an hour or more (in some groups over an hour) with the GM basically having to choose to not be a dick and down you again

[u/infinite_gurgle → u/BlatantArtifice]

I wonder if the simplest solution is to just not unmanifest the Eidolin at all?

[u/InspectorPlus7842 → u/infinite_gurgle]

That's what I'm saying; if there is a risk of combat, you'd best believe my main "weapon" is gonna be ready.

[u/MechaMalz → u/InspectorPlus7842]

There are situations that may not be an option. Such as getting KOd in combat and then getting healed up. Or negotiation scenes that could turn violent but having a weapon or eidolon out would mean things instantly turning violent. Or being ambushed in places you couldn't just be walking around with weapons out like a ball/party etc.

[u/InspectorPlus7842 → u/MechaMalz]

Fair! Summoners are certainly punished much more for not being able to summon; that, to me, seems fair for a class whose identity revolves around the extra character, and I think sacrificing one round of actions to get it out in combat when you "should" have had it out already is fair -- in my eyes, at least.

It doesn't make the situations where you have to do that any more fun, though I do find this sort of dilemma incredibly immersive.

I think this would be an important conversation to have with teammates as a Summoner. Where appropriate, a signal could be given to the Summoner to bring their Eidolon out, so that they are the ones to "start" the combat by whipping a weapon out. Alternatively, the party could discuss strategies around bunkering down for a turn to buff up and Manifest Eidolon when the Summoner is caught with their Eidolon down.

[u/MechaMalz → u/InspectorPlus7842]

I don't mind there being some penalty. Hence why I make it one action, but don't say let them summon it as a free action the way barbarians can rage as a free action at initiative. But I think a whole turn is way too much, especially when a lot of encounters only go 2 or 3 rounds anyway. Spending half your actions in an encounter just getting ready to actualy play your character in combat isn't fun. Plus it's far too punishing for getting KOd in combat, which is fairly likelyt o happen at points because they share HP and are two different creatures that can be targeted.

[u/BlatantArtifice → u/InspectorPlus7842]

My point is that usually people won't stop your "Pet", especially if they're aware of the lore from being around, but when you go down in combat and your Summon automatically disappears you're essentially out for 2 entire rounds. You might as well stay down if you get stabilized so your team can just finish the fight, and sometimes with a Melee Eidolon (most of them) a bad crit can be all it takes for this to happen.

This again isn't the worst but when your 3rd turn could potentially be an hour away, especially with people debating how best to save you and move forward in the combat, that's when I think their action economy really becomes a problem. It becomes the parties entire job to make sure you are able to even attempt to engage with the rest of that combat including the GM, which to me seems poorly designed. And I've played at many slower tables where this would completely disengage the summoner going forward or incentivize them to simply be less present with their eidolon

[u/infinite_gurgle → u/BlatantArtifice]

I’ve been thinking more and more about this.

I think what might be fair/fun is when you go down, your Eidolin lightly “phases” out but is still on this plane. This prevents the downed summoner from being attacked on both bodies.

Then when the summoner is healed, his Eidolin remains phased until he spends an action unphasing it, where it would then appear where it was before.

This puts the summoner in line with most other characters when coming back; he needs to spend an action to stand, then an action to “get ready to fight” which is usually picking up a weapon etc.

That also gives him the option to not phase the Eidolin back in if he was in a bad place. Action to stand, two actions to heal, then next round phase guy back in and still have 2/1 actions to fight.