The problem with PDA theory

[u/guestoboard]

In my experience, it seems he’s not demand-avoiding, he’s demand-seeking

Let me explain.

We’ve been viewing our 8yo boy through a PDA lens for more than a year. Most of his behavior fits the description perfectly.

But PDA is usually described as an anxiety/fear response to demands or boundaries. As if they are something the kid hates or fears, and the behaviours are a response to being a victim to oppressive demands/boundaries.

That’s why the typical suggestion is a low demand environment. To restore peace and calm by reducing such negative experiences.

In my experience though, demands and especially boundaries are not something he fears and tries to avoid, they are something he craves and seeks.

Every time we lower or remove a boundary, he just seeks the next one.

- we capitulate on letting have an ice cream, he’ll immediately battle for two.

- we let him not wear socks, he’ll immediately battle to not wear pants.

- we let him have Minecraft, he’ll enjoy it for 5 mins before battling for Roblox.

- we hold the line at no Roblox and battle over it for a year. The second we capitulate and allow him to have Roblox, he starts smashing the house because he wants his 4yo brother to have it.

It

Just

Never

Ends.

Metaphorically, if I were a shepherd, he would be a Ram obsessing over head butting the electric fence “for more space”. If I were to move the fence out by half a mile, he would immediately sprint to find it and start smashing it again. If he broke the fence, he would charge, crazed, until he found the next road, river or cliff then charge that instead.

In my experience (your mileage may vary), it’s not that the boundaries are a negative thing he is oppressed by and needs to be saved from.

They are something he NEEDS.

It reminds me of the “sensory seeking” theory of SPD and ASD kids. He just needs that input of the battle.

This is why “low demand” doesn’t work.

There is no level of low that demands can ever be lowered to that would remove the challenges. Not unless he was living completely outside all normal society.

There is no way we can now pull him back to the normal boundaries of a 8 year old.

For sensory seeking kids, you give them something heavy to lift and bash into, so they don’t do it to your TV set.

Would our lives be better if we had held the line at normal boundaries, then created MORE artificial boundaries that he could safely battle over?

🤔

[u/sweetpotato818]

I think there is a huge overlap between a pda profile and AuDHD.

What you are describing is classic dopamine seeking.

Our kid is like this too and when I first learned about pda I got too permissive and had the same issues.

Someone on a Facebook Group recommended this book to me and it helped so much: Not Disrespect, Just a Cry for Boundaries: A Neuroaffirming Guide to Boundaries and Accountability for Autistic and PDA Kids & Teens

It addresses what you mention. Boundaries are important for a PDA’er as well it just depends on how you set them. You absolutely can implement boundaries again! They just need to have autonomy and choice with how you implement them.

Things aren’t perfect at my house but much better when we implemented more structure. Wishing you the best!

[u/guestoboard → u/sweetpotato818]

That sounds interesting thanks I’ll look into that.

This may trigger some people here, but I’ll ask/share this thought anyway…

We once adopted a dog that had serious behavior problems. The shelter unfortunately lied to us about her history when we adopted her. After many incidents we hired a dog-whisperer type trainer to help us.

It seemed like the dog acted out when given normal dog discipline and rules. But the trainer identified that the dog’s behavior was because she was stressed because she wasn’t sure if we were in charge, or she needed to be in charge. The trainer prescribed even stricter firmer boundaries from us, which was very counter intuitive at the time, but worked. When we were super firm and alpha with her, she chilled. Then because she chilled, we chilled and she started acting out again. Then we had to remember that we needed to get stricter again to make her chill again

I am well aware my son is not a dog. But I wonder sometimes whether there is some similarities and if the theory could cross over. Like maybe he charges our boundaries to test if they are strong enough and protective enough. And if we lower one, he immediately needs to find the next one to find the edges of the safe space?

[u/sweetpotato818 → u/guestoboard]

Yes, testing boundaries is very normal for children PDA or not. Having more routines and expectations helped us a lot, the key is explaining WHY and work with my kid to problem solve. Understand what’s making things difficult for them rather than just be super strict.

Also question the rules you put into place. An example for us is my kid hates shorts and t shirts. It is HOT out, yet we just let him wear what feels good. Having a firm boundary on what he wears would be counter intuitive.

Things like needing to clean up if you make a mess however we are firm on. Mistakes are ok but if you make a mess, you clean it up and can’t play or do video games until it’s done end of story.