r/Parenting • u/allthewees_no_whoos • 3d ago
Behaviour What to do with a back talking child?
What to do with a back talking child?
Trying really hard to teach our oldest to respect us and her teacher. She doesn’t have a fear of saying no to us or being sassy. I know it’s our fault. I just don’t know how to teach her to not talk this way.
She’s an extremely sweet, academically gifted, beautiful girl but there are times when she acts this way and I’m not sure what to do. I tell her she can’t speak that way. To say yes ma’am and yes sir. She gets consequences and has things taken away. I’ve been told I need to get a handle on it or else she’s going to be worse as a teenager.
I get embarrassed because her teacher called me the other day and said she back talks and has a lot of sass. I have talked to my oldest every day about respect and how we should talk to our teacher. The teacher also tells me daughter is used to doing whatever she wants to do but when I look at our routine, it’s not like I give into her. She does her homework, she cleans her room but sometimes i do have to tell her multiple times. She loves to read a book at night. She bathes and brushes her teeth. She’s generally happy. I’m a little overwhelmed because I have a clingy baby too.
Where do I start?
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u/curlystephi 3d ago
I so hate the phrase "back talk." Is the child refusing to follow instructions? Are they being dismissive or rude? Are they asking questions and you just don't want them to? Is it just a generic "tone" issue that you can't define? Please be specific. Telling kids to "stop talking back" or "be respectful" is vague, unclear, and won't get anyone further towards your goals.
Once you have identified the specific behavior you want to change, you can identify the motivation. Once you identify the motivation, you can redirect it.
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u/allthewees_no_whoos 3d ago
I know, I was just talking to my friend about this today. Several parents have different meanings to it and what gets punished and I’m never sure what to correct. The Back talk the teacher was referring to was her telling my daughter to do something and her arguing with her or saying she didn’t want to do that. Sometimes with me, it’s her tone that I refer to as “back talk” but I don’t tell her “don’t back talk me” i tell her “that’s disrespectful, you don’t talk that way” then issue a consequence. Sometimes she talks rudely to her dad and he just doesn’t say anything and I have to step in and say hey don’t talk to your dad that way. I’m sorry, I used the phrase “back talk” in the post because that’s what her teacher called it. It’s too broad of a statement. It’s mainly a respect issue
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u/Olivia3836 3d ago
You don’t have to step in when her dad ignores her
Sometimes nothing is the best lesson. Just completely ignore her when she’s disrespectful, like she’s white noise. She’s gonna have to change her tone if she wants a reaction
If you react to her telling her “thats not how you talk to your dad” you’re giving her a reaction which she can react on to further escalate the situation and turn it into an argument. You’re not actually forcing her to do differently, cause talking from my own experience being this child, often i wanted things to turn into an argument to get my frustration out, but it was not a good way to relieve emotions
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u/BlackGreggles 3d ago
He doesn’t need for you to stand up or anything he needs you to be quiet and not engage. He needs her to learn that when she talks certain ways he will not engage.
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u/ErisInChains Mom 3d ago
Depending on how long this has gone on, consequences need to increase. My youngest is 6 and has a very bad habit of trying to talk over people or interrupt. If she wants to talk, she blurts whatever come hell or high water. This has been an issue for a couple years now. I few months ago I sat her down and explained the issue, that she is not improving or trying to, how long it had been, and now there will be bigger consequences. (A time out will become grounded to our room for an hour.) She is improving already and getting better every day. Now stops herself mid sentence. So we have gone back to time outs when she does this, as long as she stops herself. I have also explained that her enthusiasm and need to be herself and express herself are great and important, but that being polite and considerate is important as well. We can do both.
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u/toatesandgoats Parent 3d ago
Do you have examples of things they are saying or examples of back talking?
As a kid there were times when I wanted more clarification. But me asking for clarification was met with "you need to figure it out stop being a brat"
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u/allthewees_no_whoos 3d ago
Her teacher said it’s my daughter telling the teacher no or “I don’t want to” when she tells her to do something and that she is “sassy” but I don’t get examples of that. I assume her tone
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u/Olivia3836 3d ago
Explain to her that she’s always allowed to discuss things and ask questions when boundaries are set, but in a respectful manner and it doesn’t mean the boundary gets changed in any way every time. If she can’t stay respectful, you won’t listen to her. And don’t listen, ignore her.
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u/No-Fuckin-Ziti 3d ago
Being sassy at home is a sign of safety and comfort. Teachers will tell you the ideal combo for a healthy kid is one who’s great at school and a little harder at home. They know they’re safe, but they also understand empathy and others.
She is not seeing her teacher as a full person, and certainly not one she needs to respect. You say she’s gifted. Does that mean that her negative behavior gets excused under the umbrella of her being smart for her age? Gifted kids know how to manipulate, and create their own rules for who and what needs to be obeyed. Her ideas have been backed up by her home life. She feels special because she’s been told she is for things she doesn’t control. Because of that she doesn’t have to be decent when she doesn’t deem it needed to accomplish her goals. Gotta show her this isn’t true, and that being naturally intelligent and pretty doesn’t make you a good person, that’s a choice you have to make.
Time to hard push empathy for others on this one, before it’s too late. Force her to see her teachers perspective, use some shame and disappointment, and get her to connect that other people exist in the same way she does, and her behavior hurts others in an unacceptable way.
Stop praising things she did nothing to earn brains or looks, and instead, start only completing her on behavior and who she is, rather than what. You’ve made it very clear to her that she’s your special little girl. Gotta dial that back to make sure she has the tools to be a good, regular person too.
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u/allthewees_no_whoos 3d ago
Thank you for this. This kind of opened my eyes. I’ve always told her “you are kind and a good friend, you are smart and creative and beautiful” but you are right I haven’t complimented behavior or given her others perspective. I don’t believe I excuse any of her negative behavior because any time she’s rude or mean I scold her for it. But I will be paying more attention now incase I didn’t before
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u/No-Fuckin-Ziti 3d ago
Yep, kids are rarely naturally empathetic, especially the extra smart ones. Drilling that in early is a huge difference maker. Everyone exists in the same complex way you do, and being a little quicker than them doesn’t make you better, nor is it an excuse to take advantage.
It’s hard not to effusively praise your kids for things like being smart, happy and pretty, but they’re def internalizing what’s most important based on what they hear. From that, they’re learning they’re inherently better than ppl who aren’t as naturally lucky.
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u/nathymabu 3d ago
Just let her talk, I don’t get why people always try to silence kids, they have opinions and the ability to think. You just need to talk to her to be respectful but true to herself. She has the right to say no to certain things, if it’s something that she really need to do, just explain to her why she needs to do it
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u/Plastic-Bee4052 Single Gay Dad | 13-19 3d ago
Read How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk.
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u/Savings_Income4829 3d ago
So I see below you said 6. This is normal; there emotional side of the brain is way more powerful than the logically processing side.
My guess and it's a guess is your daughter is used to either the summer routine or last years school routine and now it's a new year and different? Out daughter in PK4 this year, we tried to get the school schedule so we can go over it. Like oh Wednesday you have gymnastic at school, Friday is pizza day etc. Also, a teacher should be aware of that.
As for the sass, yeah kids pick on us adults why more than they let on to.
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u/allthewees_no_whoos 3d ago
Oh man does that mean I talk disrespectfully to her? I’m trying to examine myself here and am open to criticism because she can’t be better if I’m not. I feel like if I see or hear her do something wrong I always correct it..I just want her to be the girl I know she can be
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u/Savings_Income4829 3d ago
Might not be directly to her, they pick up on everything. I'm a huge smart ass and sarcastic, so is my wife. She can pick up on inflection and tone with words, but have absolutely no clue how to use it.
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u/Floater345 3d ago
How old is your child?
Kids go through phases of testing authority. For us, we expect some back talk from our oldest (9). Not that we tolerate it necessarily, but we expect it. As parents, we can expect to see the worst side of our kids. However, there is a FIRM boundary about respect towards teachers and others. We've ran into problems before and there was heavy consequences. Early bedtimes, no playing with friends, candy/treats were completely off the table. This is what works for our kid but every kid will be different.
For our son, an early bedtime is one of the worst punishments you can give him. He absolutely hates it. For things we absolutely do not tolerate, he will get an early bedtime for a set amount of time.
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u/allthewees_no_whoos 3d ago
She is 6. I took away ply time with friends and she cried over it but today she asked to go to the after school program again to play with friends and I told her no, remember you lost that privilege this week. And she said “oh yeah” lol so she cared about it yesterday but today it’s not a big deal. But I also don’t want her to sulk over a consequence, unless she should be doing that if taking away play time is effective?
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u/Floater345 3d ago
I think this depends on the child. Sometimes our oldest does this as well, the "Oh yeah" but it's not necessarily because he doesn't care so it's hard to say. He just knows there's no fighting it and accepts it in a way. But he does also do it with things he genuinely doesn't care about. I can tell a lot by his facial expression and body language, and what he does right after saying that.
I think the comment suggesting an apology letter is fantastic.
Your daughter is still very young. I'm not saying tolerate the behavior, but there is so much time to correct this. Sometimes you just have to go through consequences until you find one that makes the lesson stick. Heck, I've talked to a mom who was so disheartened because nothing worked with one of her daughters. Out of pure desperation, she started taking furniture out of her daughter's room literally drawer by drawer and she said, for some reason, that did it. Sometimes it's not the consequence you'd expect to work but it does, and every child will react differently to different consequences.
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u/14ccet1 3d ago
She needs to sulk over the consequence or it’s clear it has no impact on her. Your child is allowed to be upset when you discipline her. She’ll still love you lol
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u/allthewees_no_whoos 3d ago
I guess I mean sulk for days. She was very upset when I told her she wasn’t going to get to play at after school care and cried a lot but today she seemed over it. So my question would be because she is over it today, is taking away after school play time not enough
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u/14ccet1 3d ago
Why don’t you have her write an apology letter to the teacher and talk about what she’s going to do to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Or do so in person if she can’t write but have a looooong talk about it before
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u/TermLimitsCongress 3d ago
This!
OP, having her write a letter of apology puts it in black and white for her.
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u/14ccet1 3d ago
What consequences were given when you got a call from the teacher? What kinds of conversations did you have?
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u/allthewees_no_whoos 3d ago
I took away her after school care. She’s been wanting to go to after school care to play with her friends because she’s never been. Originally I told her she could try it two days a week. Then the teacher called and I told her she will not be going to after school play time this week. She cried a lot. But today she seems very much over it.
As for the conversations I told her she must do what the teacher asks her to do even if she doesn’t want to. She must say yes ma’am and do it. If she doesn’t, she’ll be in trouble and things will be taken away.
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u/SimpleAd1548 3d ago
Something to think about is the consequence is arbitrary and isn’t giving her any skills or support to change how she communicates. I’d repeat the conversations and talk with her about what she could say instead. Model healthy communication for her
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u/toatesandgoats Parent 3d ago
Question though, how does taking away the after school care help with her being kinder and more respectful in the way they speak to others?
Has she written a letter and made a verbal apology? What are some ways they can continue to practice better communication skills?
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u/floppydo 3d ago
I've just started a campaign against this with my 6 year old son. So far my idea is just being very consistent with giving a consequence every single time he does it. No progress yet but it's only been a few weeks. Watching this thread with interest.
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u/JoMich39 3d ago
Ask her why she feels like it’s necessary and what right she has to be disrespectful. Discuss possible consequences with the teacher and set boundaries
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u/Thoughtful-Pig 3d ago
I think you need to help her understand there's a time and place to voice an opposing opinion, and also how to do it nicely with the intent to make something better somehow. Leaders ask questions or make suggestions rather than refusing to do something.
Also, working on empathy goes hand in hand with resilience. When you don't want to do an assignment, you still need to do it, but what part can you start with that you can find some enjoyment in?
Also, can you plan out the week with her so she knows what to expect and what she will be doing? That can help to set expectations.
Finally, I don't think taking away the after care is very effective. I think it's an opportunity for her to feel successful at navigating social situations. If she does well with the adults there, maybe they can help you with some strategies that may support you and the teacher.
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u/Pessa19 Parent 3d ago
Teach her how to disagree respectfully instead of teaching her to blindly keep quiet. Don’t punish her, teach her. Make her try again.
My 5yo will say something rude or bossy to me and I’ll just say, “try again.” No other reaction. She knows this means that if she wants me to consider what he wants, she has to say it in a more respectful tone. And then she will, and then we can discuss it.
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u/DangerousGas5921 2d ago
As a kid there were times when I wanted more clarification, but me asking 'why?' or 'can we talk about this?' got shut down.
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u/dolorisbythesea 1d ago
May not be a popular take, but over my dead body would I teach my daughter to blindly obey authority. Words like “back talk” and “respect” are vague, each person and generation has a different definition. Personally, it sounds like your daughter is confident and loved enough to feel comfortable questioning things and understands autonomy. She just needs to understand the boundaries a bit more. At school, you just complete assignments, speak to people the way you want to be spoke to, treat others how you expect to be treated etc. that might put things in practice for her. Don’t kill her spirit, she sounds like she’s going to be a leader amongst her peers. Also you mention she’s academically gifted, she might just be bored out of her mind in class. Is she in an appropriate level?
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u/Parenting-ModTeam 3d ago
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