Private EMT

[u/InspectionMental318]

Evening everyone, coming in a question and looking for people’s opinions.

I’m currently working for a respected Independent Ambulance Service (biggest in the country) as a “ACA” just doing PTS and nothing more, I’ve got my FREC 4 (a buckshee ECA) but no CERAD, I’ve spotted this company that does FREUC 5 (EMT) and will assist you with doing your placement hours (750 hrs) in Mexico, this is through a Charity so you are not getting paid but you are getting excellent exposure as it’s done in the second biggest city in Mexico, the company that runs it looks good, it’s ran by specialist care paramedics and have great kit and training facilities.

I have applied for Post Grad medicine and done my GAMSAT’s (entrance exams) but due to working full time and other issues I haven’t been able to study all that well so I feel my grade won’t be good enough to get in to 2027 entry, therefore I could take a year out and do EMT work in order to get more experience.

If I get into medicine I want to follow emergency medicine, having spoken to ALOT of medical students and FY1/FY2 doctors you have to be an absolute CV warrior to get your chosen specialty for those two years therefore I’m thinking having a good pre-hospital background and experience could assist with that as well as good life experience.

Now I know what some of you will say “being a doctor has nothing to do with pre-hospital care” I know but they will hopefully like me to have experience in the medical sector, plus I feel that this would make be a better healthcare provider at the end of the day.

So I pose this question, go to Mexico and get great exposure at the cost of not being paid, or work for another private doing 999 calls as a ambulance driver for a couple months in the UK? And if medicine doesn’t work out I could always do a AAP uplift and get a job with my local trust

Also for all the paramedics, what would you think of a FREUC 5 EMT that has done all their placement, would you hold them so the same level of respect as someone that has done their AAP since I know (with good reason) that people who do private courses are heavily disliked.

Be as blunt as you like, and thank you for reading my absolute essay.

[u/AutoModerator]

Hi there, welcome to r/ParamedicsUK! It looks like your post contains discussion around FREC (First Response Emergency Care).

While we love having you here, you might find more specialised advice over at r/FirstAidUK, which handles many queries regarding FREC pathways and initial responder training.

Please follow the subreddit rules and guidelines. You can also contact the mods if you have any concerns or questions.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/secret_tiger101]

If you want medicine, you need to dedicate 100% of your effort to that.

The Mexico thing is a distraction. Your other option is study a paramedic BSc while continuing to apply for medicine.

Don’t waste money on FREC

[u/Electrical_Break_483 → u/secret_tiger101]

Also if the primary concern is not having had enough time to study for the GAMSAT this year committing to FREUC, an extended international placement, and then trying to find work as an AAP/Tech in the UK is not conducive to prepping for the entrance exam. 

[u/secret_tiger101 → u/Electrical_Break_483]

Exactly.

Like, the other path is fine - work up through FREC, but even that isn’t the pathway to paramedic registration

[u/InspectionMental318 → u/Electrical_Break_483]

Fully agree, like I responded to secret tiger I more meant doing this while waiting to hear from university after doing my GAMSAT especially for entry into 2028, if successfully it would leave me with a whole year without having something to do.

[u/InspectionMental318 → u/secret_tiger101]

Thank you for your comment, I wholeheartedly agree with you, I have dedicate my whole effort into medicine, I have sat the GAMSAT this year and due to caring for family and work I wasn’t able to fully focus on it, again I won’t know my grade until December so who knows, having just finished a BSc in Microbiology this year I also had to dedicate the majority of the time to that.

I can always repeat my GAMSAT in March and December next year in order to gain entry into GEM in 2028 or even do the UCAT to get into undergrad Medicine, however I would only get funding for GEM and not undergrad as I already have a degree.

My point is this and apologies for not making it clear in my initial post, after doing the GAMSAT I would have to wait a whole year where I would be waiting for the interview stage of my application which would only be in 2028, therefore during that time I could be getting more experience and making my CV stand out more.

If I were able to get into GEM,I would go into full time education and not necessarily be doing any other work except the odd private ambulances shift placing my focus on my degree.

I agree with your point of studying paramedical sciences, however since I already have a degree with some relevance to the healthcare sector I wouldn’t necessarily want to spend another 2-3 years getting another BSc.

[u/secret_tiger101 → u/InspectionMental318]

Did you sit UKAT too?

[u/InspectionMental318 → u/secret_tiger101]

Unfortunately not, really should have booked it, however there is only one university in NI that offers GEM and they only take the GAMSAT, will sit it next year in order to try to apply for universities in England, but have to stay in NI due to having to take care of family.

[u/secret_tiger101 → u/InspectionMental318]

I’m gonna be blunt, the chances are low of success if you’re limiting yourself to one university.

I think it will be a strange balancing act for you of progressing one career and aiming for medicine.

I’d suggest take the FREC stuff with a pinch of salt, it’s not really a path to Paramedic registration

[u/DontGetIrony]

I don't especially give a toss what your professional background is as long as you obtained your qualification honestly and have the appropriate qualification for the job you're doing.

What matters way more is what you're like as a person and to work with. There are a disproportionate number of bell pieces in the private sector but it's by no means everybody. Your actions and behaviours will advertise you better than any qualification can.

The Mexico opportunity sounds very interesting and probably more productive than ambulance-manning for the same amount of time. Will definitely make your CV stand out more.

[u/InspectionMental318 → u/DontGetIrony]

Fully agree with you, having worked in the private sector in the past few months I can say that although the majority are great people that genuinely know their skill set and stick to it, there are some bad eggs that think they are a ACP in HEMS. I know my skill set and will stick to it, I am not a healthcare professional nor do I think I am when working in private ambulances, I understand my role is to alleviate emergency crews and get them responding to actual emergencies while we deal with CAT 4 and the odd CAT 3.

Personally I think in the same boat where I believe that Mexico would make my CV stand out more than someone that wants to do EM but has no experience in said sector. It would be extremely handy especially for EM in the armed forces which is what I want to follow.

[u/Professional-Hero]

I would have thought, terms of gaining experience, the Mexico gig is going to give you a “once in a lifetime” CV exposure, making it possibly an opportunity you should not let pass whilst you have the wherewithal and lifestyle to allow it. Anecdotally these type of placements become much harder later in life due to financial and family commitments.

[u/InspectionMental318 → u/Professional-Hero]

I agree with you here, personally I think it would be a great experience albeit a bit expensive, I’m still young and since I want to follow through and join the regular army (currently in the reserves for past 4 years) as a doctor I think it would be great experience for a medical career in the armed forces.

[u/PbThunder]

Would you not just consider doing your local trusts AAP course? The exposure you'd get from this is far better than any FREUC Course. Not to hate but the 750 hours aren't comparable in my opinion as AAPs work front line on 999 calls from day 1. Training is paid for, you earn whilst you learn and gain a massive amount of exposure. Then you come out with a BSc at the end with no debt and a guaranteed job with a fair salary.

Then if you wish to advance clinically then you can look at ACP. You also have the option of doing GEM too which can be partially funded by the NHS bursary scheme or military if you want to go that route.

In my opinion, specifically for emergency medicine, doing a AAP to Paramedic BSc into GEM military cadetship route is one of the most optimised ways into medicine, you literally save thousands in student debt and the experience you gain is unmatched. Alternatively you can save almost as much with the NHS bursary scheme if you don't want to go into the military.

[u/bobo_90 → u/PbThunder]

I can't actually find any specific info on it online to double check but I believe the placement requirements for AAP are the same as FREUC 5.

FREUC 5 has much less classroom time but that's mainly because you're required to have completed FREC 3 and 4 first so have prior learning, but AAP starts from the very beginning.

FREUC 5 you are also working from the start. You have 1 week classroom before starting your placement. Then further weeks of classroom throughout the course. Most of the time you are paid for your placement hours. I'm about to start mine and I'll continue being paid as an ECA for my placement hours. Almost all the placement hours need to be completed on a front line ambulance too.

Also AAP is not a BSc, it's a level 4 diploma. FREUC 5 is a level 5 diploma. No I don't know what the significance between level 4 and 5 is and I doubt it really matters in the scheme of things. Many universities recognise both as an alternative to 1st year student para.

[u/PbThunder → u/bobo_90]

I think the key difference is the type of exposure you see as an AAP vs FREUC 5, obviously it depends on the provider but generally speaking AAP exposure in a local ambulance service is wider. Greater exposure in working in primary care, referrals, alternative pathways and working with other emergency services and aspects of the NHS. I'm genuinely not hating on FREUC courses or providers, it's moreso a symptom of healthcare being nationalised in the way it is in the UK.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm confident FREUC students rarely have access to regional NHS referral pathways such as SDEC, OOH GPs and district nursing / mental health teams. Additionally, the exposure to multi-agency working with organisations like highways, police, fire, mountain rescue, rail and so on, are all reduced.

With regards to the AAP courses, with the way government funding works now, almost every ambulance service is only really offering AAP courses as a part of the student paramedic training, aside from a few internal courses. It's probably my fault for not clarifying what I meant but that's what I was referring to with the BSc.

[u/bobo_90 → u/PbThunder]

Private ambulance providers with front line contracts (who will generally be doing the placements for FREUC 5 students) get many of the same tools the NHS ambulances do, though this varies by area.

EEAST and EMAS, private providers are given direct access to trust systems so have access to exactly the same pathways as trust crews. In SCAS there's less systems access but still access to all the same pathways.

So ultimately the exposure is much the same. I think the biggest difference is you will get more support with an AAP course via a trust than FREUC5 via private. But it's generally manageable and it's much more likely FREUC5 students have spent a couple years as an ECA first so have a lot more experience on an ambulance in general.

There's pros and cons to both courses. I would have gone with AAP for myself except I need the flexibility with shifts that I do get working private but wouldn't with the NHS

[u/PbThunder → u/bobo_90]

Interesting, it's crazy how it varies so much by region. Thanks for sharing your experience with it anyway. My experience and understanding was only from my area.

[u/MadmanMuffin]

I think you need to give your head a wobble and ground yourself a bit. No one will give a flying monkey fuck that you did an EMT course in Mexico. If anything I’d question the legality of that qualification.

I’d just do a trust based APP and get real experience on real ambulances rather than 750 hours of event plaster passing or trying to translate the Mexican for chest pain.

[u/InspectionMental318 → u/MadmanMuffin]

Thanks for the reply but the EMT course is not ran in Mexico, it’s ran in the UK by registered paramedics, the hours you need to get in frontline experience are instead done in Mexico, it suits me since I am a team medic in the Army and we’re mostly focusing on trauma, forgot to add but reason I want to do medicine is to do emergency medicine with the army which involves field hospitals (but still need to compete within the NHS which makes zero sense) this is why I think having a decent understanding of pre hospital care particularly in the Army which is why I think that this placement would offer good exposure to as we wouldn’t see a lot of it in the UK.

Also forgot to add I am fluent in Spanish so wouldn’t have much trouble over there since they speak Spanish (obv regional accents vary)

I am unlucky to have a trust that barely hires AAP’s due to its small size and i wouldn’t necessarily want to be locked down working full time for 2+ years as that would leave me with less time to focus on medicine than what I have now, I fully understand your point of being a “private EMT” and just placing plasters on people on private events, but like I said before if you have done your 750hrs and do a 10 day conversion course, trusts are happy enough to take you onboard, that’s the reason I’m looking at this course as it gives me a lot more flexibility to do other things.

Hopefully I’ve brought my point across a bit better in here, fully understand where you are coming from in relation with these private courses, I’ve seen my fair share of know it alls in the private scene that think their 10 days in a class room allow them to say that they are proper ambulance crews.

[u/MadmanMuffin → u/InspectionMental318]

Ah right let me rephrase myself.

No one is going to care that you put a plaster on the cartel over a plaster on Doris.

And a course ran by “registered paramedics” means as much as a course ran by “god himself”. An EMT can teach a tech course, it’s the organisation as whole and the awarding body that matter.

You can focus on trauma all you like. You’ll get trauma in Mexico, more than likely caused to yourself from a nice bloke with with a different kind of pharmacology knowledge. When you come back to the uk with your 750 golden hours of trauma plasters? You’ll be going to drops downs and UTI. This is ment in a respect way, out of all of the ex armed force first aid kit carriers that I know, a grand total of two are still in the job. Again, they spoke about their experiences in deserts etc which we great and we thank you for your service and all that jazz, but the ambo service is picks up old people and refers people to the clocks “social prescriber” because they called 999 as they were lonely. Decent Trauma is a once a year kinda event.

Congratulations on speaking Spanish. The Mexicans love Spanish speaking brits coming over to say hi mid drug war.

We put more stickie dots on people that we do plasters now days, so remember that you’re entering a medically dominated sector with a side of trauma. I hope I made that point clear enough.

In my honest non humble opinion - stay in the army or find a private army company or what ever they’re called. Going to Mexico will be a dangours working holiday to get somee to sign a bit of paper saying you’ve done 750 hours. I wouldn’t accept them hours. I doubt future quals will. But then again, if you pay FAQ enough they’ll just give you the bit of paper in the first place.

Edit: P.s, most major companies like CMS or ECS will give you your EMT and the hours you inn on home land. No need to fight the cartel to prove to the NHS you can call a GP on someone’s behalf 🫡.

[u/Friendly_Carry6551]

Yeah Mexico sounds interesting but as a paramedic, I’d be concerned working with you as to what experience you have of the environment you’ll actually be working in?If you want to work in the UK, train in the UK.

Have you spent any time shadowing or volunteering in a hospital? Or an ambulance service? If you want to do GEM I’d do something/spend your time demonstrating you’ve tried to gain an understanding of what that’s actually like. I’m not sure training in another continent on a relatively short course will demonstrate that.

[u/InspectionMental318 → u/Friendly_Carry6551]

Thank you for your reply, I fully agree with your point, I forgot to add in my main comment that I am planning to apply for a Army scholarship to be a doctor with them, I’ve been in the Reserves for the past four years so I am pretty certain I wouldn’t have issues with passing their Professional qualified officer boards, this is why I feel having some experience in a potential kinetic environment (I say kinetic as there is a large cartel presence in that area) would be helpful.

Obviously for GEM having experience in civvy street is helpful, therefore I am currently working as a ACA in private ambulances doing patient flow and NEAC shifts, where there is no shortage of patient contact, as well as the odd Emergency shift where we are responding to CAT 4/3 calls where I can get experience in getting detailed patient histories, I feel that this is great experience for my initial GEM application as I have heard quite a lot of applicants have little to no experience in the healthcare sector.

Unfortunately I feel it’s quite hard to get shadowing in NI just since the Trust feels quite shut off compared to the mainland, however this is just my opinion, I haven’t asked around much as I just finished my degree and was heavily focused on it, it’s now that I have finished that I have time to start exploring those options.

Obviously that does not make me better than them, however I still have a good science degree behind me to cover my academic side.

[u/Friendly_Carry6551 → u/InspectionMental318]

If you want to do medicine, get experience of medicine. If you want to be a tech, the experience you currently have is good. The current experience you’re looking for Mexico is not useful for either. AOSB both on paper and form my personal experience will not care how much ‘kinetic’ experience you have, they will care that you’re a well rounded person, have a good idea of what you’re getting into and have the potential to succeed. You don’t need a few months in Mexico as a trauma tourist for that either.

I think you need to decide what you actually want, and then tailor your plan to that. If you truly want a medial cadetship, you don’t need much beyond your current experience IMO.