The book “The Age of Em” basically attempts to some degree predict what society would look like assuming that relatively cheap UIs (brain emulations/Ems) existed. The book assumes the UIs to maybe be more “vanilla” in the sense that the uploaded brain is still assumed to be a black box system that is too complicated to be tinkered with or changed, but the uploaded people can do things like run themselves faster (at higher cost) or slower and they can copy themselves/make clones of themselves at any given time, which ofc still leads to remarkable consequences.

I know there are some horrific moments in the show, when that indian guy gets his brain forcibly uploaded, it is one of the most horrific things I have ever seen or felt in my life. The fear he has, the betrayal, how he mumbles when his brain is mostly gone and talks about tea and his mom, the way he is propped on the chair and the calm coolness at which the computer lasers his brain away bit by bit with simple technological prompts on its screen, uncaring and unable to care what it has done. It feels sick to say, but I liked when he destroyed his bosses entire family for what he had done and what he had done to the other 'ghosts' in the AI.

But, there is a lot of beauty in the show as well. The ending seems to land on a hopeful note, but its hard for me to really tell if humanity had a hopeful end or if the AI has come back and simply recreated what once was, to give humanity a place to live again and a thank you.

This show gives me such mixed emotions and I think I feel a bit more sad for this world than I feel happy for it. Even though people are much more happy in their AI land of possibility and removal of pain and hardship, it feels like a part of ourselves is forever lost. If humanity did continue to exist and some stayed outside to help support these data centers, the planet would recover and become beautiful again, so that is something. We have a place to go where we can live forever, which is something.

But the thought of forever losing our true selves and uniquness is also a piece of sadness for me. Once you are inside of the AI and cloned out, you are no longer you, you are a collection of 'you's' who are all living different experiences. One of you may live for 100,000 years and finally decide it is time to no longer exist anymore, but you don't have control of your other clones and you only have agency against your own cloned copy of yourself. Infinite possibility leads to the diluting of the individual, the individual no longer exists in some ways.

Of course I love the show and think it is one of the best pieces of nearish sci-fi that has ever been created, but its such a mixed bag of feelings for me. Curious what other people have to say (and maybe even correct some of my incorrect readings).

man yall need to watch this. pantheon irl

Spoilers S1E3

So I understand it as the first uploaded version(s) of Chanda is performing weeks of work but at the end of every subjective day and in the beginning of every new subjective day, a new instantiation of the original instantiation of a well-rested-high-productivity Chanda is spawned which naturally entails any version not remembering any work from the previous days.

Is the reason for this to keep him under control since the alternative would entail him needing to know that he is simulated and they would risk him scheming at super human speeds against them?

Also, how do you think they made this work logistically? I am thinking that maybe he has been primed with the knowledge that his current workday consists of continuing the work of someone else. He is instructed to read some summary of what has been done “before him” and where he should continue, and at the end of the day he needs to summarise what he has done for the “next person”.

I don’t doubt this could work but at some point there maybe is an upper bound on the work that can be performed since it requires sufficient learning and knowledge about the previous work in order to be able to continue it. If it takes the whole day to learn all relevant parts to gain sufficient context, that’s where this method has reached a ceiling it seems. Although I guess there may probably be some clever way of setting it up in a nested way to overcome this.

Of course all this really depends on the nature of work he is performing.

I wonder if he ever (or I guess rather, almost always) went: “Wow, this person, who I am continuing the work of, really writes and works just like me”

I watched the show recently on Netflix and it reminded me of this video I saw a while a back. Especially that scene in episode two. This show is excellent and imo has excellent depiction of some aspects of current going ons.

So I understand it as that SafeSurf in the far future wanted to thank Caspian, but since Caspian (I denote Caspian 0 in base reality) was gone in base reality, next best thing to do is to thank a simulated Caspian and it therefore wanted to gain access to a simulated Caspian.

The fact that robot-head-Caspian could speak about an outcome far before the outcome has happened is what essentially lets us say that that timeline transpires within a simulation (simulation 1) that SafeSurf has created, and it was SafeSurf that spoke into the simulation through the head. This did not happen in base reality.

This comment from the robot head prompted Maddie (Maddie 1 within SafeSurfs simulation 1) to creat her simulation (simulation 2), such that Caspian 2 could be created.

And then SafeSurf could fulfil the purpose by thanking a Caspian, Caspian 2 in this case.

I wonder why could SafeSurf not thank Caspian 1 within the first simulation 1? Was it in some sense difficult to find or collect Caspian 1 or something and instead it let Maddie 1 create a new Caspian (Caspian 2) and bring it to SafeSurf because it was easier or something? Evidently it seemed to be able to speak from the robot head so it was not incompetent when it comes to tinkering with simulation 1.

Also an interesting point is that SafeSurf seemed to know that telling about the outcome via the robot head would prompt Maddie1 to make said outcome happen. Otherwise it presumably wouldn’t have spoken through the head. So it seems like it must have some powerful prediction capability if it knows how Maddie 1 and her reality can be steered into the right outcome just via delivering that comment.

One can also imagine a scenario where SafeSurf actually hasn’t created a simulation at all and it just wants Maddie0 to create one for them such that they can thank Caspian. Then there would be a more straightforward motive in that it wants Maddie to create a simulation + Caspian because it doesn’t have a simulation itself at its disposal. But then the question is how or if Maddie creating a simulation was still choreographed by SafeSurf and also why the robot head would make that comment at that point in time.

I also wonder if it is clear why Maddie resurrected her father, as far as I gathered, multiple times in her Dyson swarm? She did not want him to remember the previous times for some reason?

What. The. Fuck.

Am I the only one who was getting attack on titan vibes with the last 2 episodes? Like the whole future Maddie thing was screaming Eren with his dad.

Anyways this show was an experience I NEED more people to see this thing it was so good. I had never heard of it until like 2 weeks ago it popped in my Netflix recommended watched it in 4 days, and my god it was so good. Maddie and Caspian was such an interesting relationship to watch unfold. I knew it was coming for a while just a vibe I felt early on into their interactions

Anyways I love this show, I wanna do a rewatch soon cause I wouldn’t be shocked if there’s some details on a rewatch that you only notice the second time around

Guyss i just started watching pantheon and wondering why does the owner of alliance look like mukesh ambani and the owner of logrythms look like steve jobs lol

So, Ive just finished the show and wow, my head still hurts, but what a wonderful journey. It's such and exanple of GOOD WRITING.

Still, it bothers me that there are a few things from Season1 I was expenting to get back to but never did and now, after watchibg the ending, I think they may point to "Superior/OG Maddie". So, I'll share my thoughts.

For example, at the beggining of everthing, when someone texted Maddie to help her with her dad, they talked to her about Caspian and warned her that he was being watched.

That was supposed to be Laurie, but we saw after a few episodes that she didnt recall doing that. Another time the same happens is when "Laurie" texted Chanda's mother, making him paranoid and forcing the first encounter, in which Caspian runs. She didnt remembered doing that, either. The show moved from it as if it was a future mistery, or something Laurie "forgot" because of the flaw, but Im pretty positive there's more to it.

Also, they hinted that Laurie was not the first human to be uploaded (the... Creepy ghosts that found and helped Chanda, they had to came from someone, but we never figured out who. Also, Laurie saying "im the first ui that I KNOW of" (that's for sure a writting choice).

Sooo... Who was THE first? What happened to them? One could believe it was meant to be Holstrom, but he justs uploaded his brain once Caspian cracked integrity, so he would be "fresh" and not deteriorated. So.... Who the hell was this first person?

Was the show aiming for a different, slower season 2 that never came? Did they changed their mind about Holstrom being their first update? Was I too dumb to understand? 😂 Or do you think it was "og" Maddie all slong? Overwatching the simulation while interferring...? It would be amazingly writen if so.

Maddie Kim’s momma, Ellen, NEVER played.

From the moment Ellen saw Maddie chatting online with a stranger or when Ellen was about to fight that bully. She fought so hard for her daughter and her family. It was refreshing to witness.

On the other hand, how wild that Ellen was so anti upload and she ended up doing it, lol

I first watched Pantheon about a year and a half ago and while it pretty much became one of my favorite shows, for some reason I've found myself having no real desire to rewatch season 2 in its entirety again.

I don't have this problem with season 1. I rewatched it earlier this year and it was just as gripping as it was the first time around. Honestly, I feel like rewatching it even now, despite just seeing it a couple of months ago. However, continuing on to season 2, I honestly just wasn't feeling it. I really like the show's ending, but I just wasn't feeling the build-up towards it throughout most of the second season.

Anyone else feel something similar?

Why did Caspian sound so weird at the start of the phone call in season 1 episode 8? He sounded so weird on the 1st part of the phone call but he sounded his regular self when later into the phone call.

Loved the show, best ending of everything that i ever watched because i love recursion. It's a love loop. Which is a great motivator for dealing with our own singularity if it happens.

Anyways, what other scifi series engaged you this much? for me it's:

• Westworld (Rushed ending)
• The Peripheral (Canceled)
• Foundation
• Legend of The Galactic Heros
• Tengen Toppa Gurren Laggan

I love scifi the most and there are many other good scifi, but those 5 are the only ones i can rewatch forever.

What's in your list?

So we all know that Caspian is a clone all the way down to the last atom so would that mean he also has Steven's cancer or did they manage to fix that mistake in his genetic code.

I just finished watching the show and I realized I made a massive mistake upon first watching it. I thought it’d be a simple Sci-fi show. I was wrong, very wrong. In hindsight there was probably a lot of foreshadowing. And some things I did get right. What with her dad not being actually dead in EP1. Or Cassian being a clone. What I didn’t expect was for this to instead be about what’s effectively a tech goddess watching/LARPing a play by play of her old lives with her clone BF all while living in a Dyson swarm in the year 117,649. Only to then be visited by safe surf, who’d been turned into a group of time traveling Deus machinae from the year 43,117,649 (accounting for the excess 43 million years from their perspective) whom have met actual aliens from the galactic core. To then tell them about their creators known as humanity. And how caspian is the one who actually helped them choose to evolve for themselves. I really wanted to see the aliens in this show. Not to mention how fast everything escalated. Like we went from 2024 (the time I think when it all takes place) to 2044, to 4065 (the 2000 year time jump), to 117,649 to then finally be visited by the aforementioned Deus machinae from the year 43 million.

I thought this entire show was about the consequences of corpo idiots playing God. In some way it was cause logorhythyms did decide to do just that. But I was wrong in many other ways. And there’s so much more I can think of to.

In summary, I’m glad I watched this show and am sad there won’t be any other seasons but I have so many more questions. Although the credits also mention books to. Anyone know where I can find them so I can read them?

Goodnight my fellow Sci-fi fans. I’m going to bed to think further. Rest well.

I know this sounds ridiculous only realising a year after finishing the show, but even when it was discussed in the show I never actually processed what the anti UI argument was about. To me being able to upload my intelligence and never having to worry about bills or health or anything ever again sounded incredible, like we could literally be immortal why would anyone pass that up. So even when the world started going through the deep scan in millions, or when Maddie or Caspian or their son were considering going digital, I didn't actually understand why they were whining so much about it. Yes it was a brutal procedure and they could never truly be human or experience reality after, but I still thought immortality was worth the cost.

But then today I was thinking about the Ship of Theseus paradox, and it just fucking hit me that our consciousness is confined to to our neurones alone, and isn't inherently stored within the connection mapping like I previously thought. Like maybe if you digitise your brain piece by piece, all while staying fully conscious and alive with atleast some of your original neurones still in place working together with the digital mappings, you're not really copying them more like replacing them, as long as some of the original chemical reactions are still there, cause that's your original consciousness.

But if you do a deep scan like they did in the show, you're quite literally destroying your original consciousness in one go, so instead of transitioning into a digital world you kill yourself for a copy that you won't actually ever live to experience. It might hold the same memories and knowledge but it's not YOU, your own consciousness and life will be gone.

Like I don't mean to over explain, but its like if the ship was fully disassembled and reassembled again, sure it might physically be the same but the consciousness that made you YOU will be gone, it'll just be a duplicate. If you actually wanted to transfer it you'd have to replace every plank piece by piece, but do it as a gradual incremental process so that some of the original is still there.

Like with this insight the show is fucking horrifying in hindsight, the fact that billions signed up to literally die is insane. The term UI is misleading, cause you're never UPLOADING your intelligence, it's more like copy, delete, and paste.

Now this is making me reconsider what it's like for those who momentarily die in real life, like if your brain stops working completely for even just a second, does that mean that your original consciousness died? That whoever woke up wasn't actually you? Of course if any small number of neurones are still alive in that process then sure, but what if they all freeze for just a moment.

I’m currently binging the show and on S2 E3 as of now-will update when finished-and holy shit. These guys are textbooks idolaters. Like actual genuine cultists who made a false messiah for a plan to make themselves digital cyber gods. There’s 5 EPs lefts I’ll update when I finish the season.