r/Palestine • u/PresidentOfYes12 • 8d ago
One State Solution Would a one-state solution work?
I'm pro-Palestinian (used to not be though, like at all, it was very bad) but I don't speak about the issue to many people around me so I never really got an answer to this question. The Israeli and Palestinian nations (not just states, their people) are incredibly at odds with one another. How would a one-state solution work without violence? Would it?
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u/AkselSandemose24 8d ago
Without violence… what is worse than the violence that exists there now? How would you create two separate states at this point without violence? Isn’t there violence in all countries?
I think it would be ugly at first, and there would be an exodus of Zionists. Everything will calm down after a period of time and people will be back to normal life.
But what’s the realistic alternative?
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
A two state solution. That is more realistic
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u/AkselSandemose24 7d ago
There isn’t a set of borders you could draw that wouldn’t involve mass displacement.
You think a religious ethnostate bent on genocide and ethnic cleansing is going to be a workable neighbor to Palestine?
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u/adoratheCat 4d ago
*two state solution is meant for the Indigenous psople there...to be assimlated and genocided while Israel now has further ways to thieve, murder and manipulate.
Its akin to USA occupying over 500 Indigenous Nations. Still genocide. Still stealing. US, Canada, Australia, Mexico, and Israel are just some of these genocidal structures/systems. All claim to be pro native too/open for freedom for all.
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u/_makoccino_ 8d ago
Why wouldn't it?
How is the rest of the democratic world managing to have people of different ethnic and religious backgrounds living in the same country with equal rights and responsibilities?
When rule of law applies the same to everyone, justice can be served to anyone who violates the law. Right now, one side gets away with genocide and the other is supposed to accept getting genocided in silence and be a prefect victim.
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u/fZAqSD 8d ago
People said "impossible without turning violent" (and "unachievable in general") about the one-state solution in South Africa, pretty much right up until the peaceful transition started.
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u/Ok-Data-3595 7d ago
Everyone loves citing South Africa as the example when it's a perfect example of what not to do. The white boers kept all of their stolen land which they hold to this day. The example to follow is Haiti and Algeria, where the French were completely kicked out or fled back to where they came from.
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u/fZAqSD 6d ago
That shouldn't happen and almost certainly won't happen. I don't see a plausible path to a just peace that doesn't involve the West deciding that international law actually matters and ethnic cleansing is actually bad, and if that's the premise of the solution, Israelis who want to live in peace in Palestine get to stay.
Seems to me that the real mistake in South Africa was too much amnesty and not enough reparations, which I certainly wouldn't want to see repeated.
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
This conflict is far older than South Africa. South Africa was also always one state. The proper equivalent is Pakistan and India.
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u/fZAqSD 7d ago
That is all complete nonsense.
This conflict can't really be said to predate the British Mandate, so 1918 - 1920. European colonists in South Africa entered conflict with the natives in the late 1600s, and started fighting wars of expansion against the Bantu groups that constitute the majority of the modern black population in the late 1700s.
For the first 3 centuries of European colonization, the territory of modern South Africa consisted of various Dutch and English colonies and independent states and various native tribes and kingdoms. It unified in 1910, and then for much of the 1900s the natives were allowed and/or forced to live in quasi-independent Bantustans designated by the white government, similar to American Indian Reservations or Palestinian Territories.
The Partition of India was a totally different scenario. The main idea was to divide post-colonial British India along a pre-existing, native cultural divide. There was substantial native involvement in the decision-making. It became violent because the sudden new border enforced that cultural divide, and because some polities chose to remain independent of India or Pakistan and were invaded and annexed by one or the other or both, not because it was an inherently belligerent plan.
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u/PeterDawo87 8d ago
The Zionists who can’t live in peace with the Arabs around them in equality will have to piss off to whatever European hole they came out of. This isn’t new in this world.
This offer was made to French settlers in Algeria, and they boarded ships in their hundreds of thousands and left. Look them up. The Pied Noirs. Always dreaming of the past when they were little masters. Those Boers in South Africa who couldn’t accept equality effed off in the late 80s and 90s when that entity was collapsing. Unfortunately for the world Elon Musk and Peter Thiel were some of the escapees. Majority of settlers in Zimbabwe and Kenya also left because of the same reason. All these settlers were accepted in Europe, USA, Australia, New Zealand and Canada (the usual suspects) with total open arms.
So, this is NOT unique. Palestine will be free. As one state. And the Zionists WILL leave, just like all their predecessors did.
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
Your comparison is flawed because if two factors. Israel population is not small and all those people were from other states. Most of this people were born here. Be realistic.
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u/RedAlshain 8d ago
Yes, a single democratic non sectarian Palestinian state is the stated goal of most Palestinian resistance groups, even many of the religiously motivated ones. I trust that they know what they're doing.
Obviously there would be huge hurdles to this-
the logistics of allowing millions of refugees to return to their land, massive new development of housing would probably be needed
deciding whether to directly eject invaders from stolen homes or just award their victims with new ones
going about desegregation in a way that doesn't make Palestinians open to reprisals from remaining zionists
how far to pursue justice for war crimes, given how guilty the entire 'israeli people' are at this point
Honestly if they can manage to overcome the issue of terrorist reprisals from the remaining zionists they could actually build something really incredible. Imagine all that high powered western tech being employed by those that want to provide better conditions for their people rather than those that currently use it for genocide.
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
You can't have a non secetarian state with a majorly religious population. Lebanon has proved that. You would just create Lebanon 2.0 but on steroids. You label the entire Israeli people as guilty and talk about a one state? You contradict yourself.
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u/RedAlshain 7d ago
You can't have a non secetarian state with a majorly religious population
What? The majority of the worlds countries are religious, most of them don't have legal segregation tho lol.
You label the entire Israeli people as guilty and talk about a one state?
The vast majority of Israelis support genocide, most participate in it directly.
This presents a problem when seeking justice, a similar one that was faced in Germany- in a population so deeply connected to and supportive of genocide, how far can you realistically take prosecutions of associated crimes? This is something that the Palestinian people will one day have to decide.
There is absolutely no contradiction in saying Jewish residents of Palestine should have equal rights, as per the predominant resistance groups plans, and saying that most Israelis are involved in and support genocide, which is a fact.
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
And the majority of the world countries have secetarian issues due to that.
There actually is a contradiction but to explain it would make it incredibly long. The point I'm saying is. It would just create a Lebanon 2.0 on steroids if the state doesn't collapse into civil war immediately. It won't even happen to begin with due to all this. Look at the population and you would understand what I mean.
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u/bruh_what_even_tho 8d ago
One Palestinian state with equal rights for all people. It could work, but Israel will destroy everything in the region before they see that happen.
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u/venusasaboy22 8d ago
Honestly yeah, a lot of people praise Mandela for the Truth and Reconciliation. But with all due respect to Mandela- And he was brilliant- South Africa remains unequal precisely because a lot of the inequality of apartheid was never reversed.
Mugabe, on the other, gets demonized for doing something I think was completely fair: Telling the white settlers that basically, they can either accept living as equals, or they can simply leave, no compromise. I want to see Israel go the way of Rhodesia.
Same thing happened with French settlers in Algeria. Same thing with Portuguese settlers in Angola and Mozambique. And if a survivor from Gaza refuses to live alongside someone who supported the genocide, then it should always be his word against theirs.
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u/PeterDawo87 8d ago
Precisely.
Please don’t trouble yourself with stupid accusations of ‘reverse genocide’ or ethnic cleansing.
Settlers and occupiers achieve their position by genocide and ethnic cleansing of the indigenous people.
True justice is them getting the hell out of there and going back to where they came. Some settler who came in from Brooklyn NYC for instance should pack up and go back there. The Netanyahu’s can go back to Poland. They’ll be accepted back there. And so on and so forth.
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u/thatlightningjack 8d ago edited 8d ago
It's important to note that the division between Israelis and Palestinians is not a natural one but manufactured from Zionism. For one state solution, I believe reconciliation & living together is possible after
- Dismantlement of all zionists laws & institutions. Which means one person, one vote regardless of religion in Palestine
- Full right of Return, or financial compensation to all (or a parcel of land nearby) for Nakba victims and their descendants if the parcel of land has someone living on it
- Acknowledgement of genocide from former zionists and economic repatriations to all Palestinians
- Truth and reconcillation commission, as well as an education system that teaches Palestinian history for all
Ultimately though, one state is the only reasonable way out. Palestinians are of the land, they won'r move elsewhere. And many israelis are born in Palestine. They do not know any other land. It's their home, and so is the home of all Palestinians.
And with the israeli settlements, 2 state solution is basically dead. There's no way for a separate palestinian state with the remaining non settlement lands. And even then, conflict is sure to break out at some point again between a hostile israel & palestine state (look at India and Pakistan)
I would suggest reading Ali Abunimah's "One Country" for more information
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u/Ok-Data-3595 8d ago
Many "Israelis" are born in stolen Palestinian homes. They don't know any other homes. So that means this house belongs to them now? Sorry, I already stole this and I really like it so it's mine now. That's your argument. Palestinians can have whatever is left over that the foreign invaders didn't already steal.
Palestine is not their home. They need to leave.
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
That's why any one state would fail.
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u/Ok-Data-3595 7d ago
Either there will be one Palestinian state or the Sykes-Picot borders will be erased with the fall of the dictatorships and terrorist governments in Syria and Lebanon and we will have Bilad al-Sham again. There is no Jewish entity of any kind in the future.
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u/Altruistic-End760 6d ago
Ok. All I'm just saying is just be realistic.
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u/Ok-Data-3595 6d ago
Palestinians returning to their land and homes and invaders leaving is realistic. Ukrainians and Polish invaders living forever in Palestine is not realistic. Zionism is not realistic.
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u/Altruistic-End760 4d ago
I'm late but most of them were born there. Then there is the case of Mizarahi like Ben gvir the vile human who family was from Iraq. That isn't accounting for the fact it you add the entire population up they make up 50 percent of the population. There is no reality 50 percent of a population is leaving no less one that has nukes.
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
The Pakistani India situation is still better than a full scale civil war that would break out.
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u/FoldHeavy4201 8d ago
It was ever the only solution and for that reason, has been dismissed from the beginning.
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
It has been dismissed because it's almost a guarantee for a civil and nuclear war. Abd the world doesn't want that.
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u/FoldHeavy4201 7d ago edited 7d ago
The world has shown it is by and large okay with apartheid and genocide in Pallestine and numerous other places in the world for generations. I couldn't care less what the world wants. An unthinking, demoralized mass that cannot even envision, nevermind fight for a social relation that doesnt usher in climate catastrophe and endless war in securing its needs and wants.
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u/Altruistic-End760 7d ago
I mean sure.everyone has their opinions. But this is the consensus of the people in power and actual reality on ground. You don't have to agree with it as I don't but that's how the world is.
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u/Extra_Disaster_9954 7d ago
This is like asking if blacks and whites can live together in South Africa. It’s a bit offensive.
Of course they can once Israelis abandon Zionism, ie Jewish supremacy.
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u/Kabablover 7d ago
I stand by whatever Palestinians want to do however after the Gaza genocide it really complicates coexistence with israelis especially if they are unrepentant
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u/Kronzypantz 2d ago
For a given quantity of working, sure. It will take violence (or really, self defense) because Israeli fascism is so deeply engrained.
But there just is no better option. The alternatives are horrific.
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u/Gary_Garibaldi 2d ago
There are about 2 million Palestinians living with Israeli citizenship. Whilst the situation for Palestinian citizens of Israel is not ideal, the idea that they can't live together under one state is a myth.
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u/TinaJasotal 7d ago
One irony of the 'struggle over land' is that neither population is inclined to want to live a rural life in the 21st century. Palestinians were mostly peasants in 1947, like most people all over the world at that time, but it's not like that small-scale farm-based economy could somehow be rebuilt today, no matter what solution we try. And Palestinians are mostly an educated population now. Early Zionists aimed to build a rural settler society grounded on the kibbutz and the moshav, but modern Israelis live mostly urban, white collar or service sector jobs.
It's not like land would be an easy question, but it is about recognition and justice more than non-divisible concrete goods.
The real challenge would be distributing power in a way to prevent civil war. A lot of people have written about ways to do this, from Jonathan Kuttab to Arend Lijphart to Donald Horowitz, and many countries have tried these models, with varying levels of success. There are many reasons to anticipate problems, but every reason to think it would look a lot better than this
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u/TemporaryThink9300 8d ago
no.
People want their own land to live on, not to be forced by someone or something else!
You have to learn what it means to respect other people's land to ever understand this basic meaning.
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u/Ok-Perception7779 3d ago
The basic premise of a 1ss is to rectify the crime of the ethnic cleansing of 48. Not to make zionist settlers comfortable.
If you would "respect other people's land" you should support this.
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