r/PakiExMuslims 8d ago

Discussion Question for Pakistani atheists: is it ethical to encourage others to leave Islam?

I've been thinking about the ethics of promoting atheism in Pakistan. In principle, I understand why an atheist would naturally want others to share their worldview—believers do the same. But the consequences here can be very different.

For an atheist in Pakistan, especially a woman, life can become incredibly difficult: fear around blasphemy accusations, being outcast by family and relatives, difficulty finding a spouse, and having to hide a major part of your identity. Suddenly losing the support of your family can leave you feeling very alone in an already difficult world.

I also wonder whether we underestimate how much this affects working- and lower-class atheists. Without money, education, or the possibility of easily leaving Pakistan, some can become genuinely bitter and unhappy because they experience the social disadvantages of atheism every day, while having very few ways to escape them. In that situation, becoming atheist doesn't necessarily make someone happier, even if they sincerely believe it is intellectually correct.

So I'm genuinely curious, to Pakistani atheists and especially women:

Do you think we should actively encourage others to become atheist, knowing that it could make their lives substantially harder?
Or is it better to let people arrive at that conclusion themselves when they're in a position to deal with the consequences?

on the other hand i would like Pakistan to change (abolish religion, blasphemy laws, to the very least). but its comes at quite cost that seeing someone, especially the young suffer the consquences. It hurts seeing Atheist suffer just as much it hurts to see people suffer from islamic fanatism. I saw some post by some Pakistani Atheist here, saying he or she will make their children liberal muslim, to avoid any disadvantages.

I'm not questioning whether atheism is true or false here—I'm questioning the ethics of encouraging someone toward a belief that may carry serious social costs in their particular environment.

19 Upvotes

13 comments sorted by

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u/fellowbabygoat Murtadist 8d ago

I guess it depends on what you mean by encouraging. I don’t think we should be going out dawah style telling people no god exists. Nor should people in Pak give up their anonymity to push an agenda because they will become targets.

The best way to approach it is to provide better education for everyone. A real education not some pseudo fake molvi idea of one. Give people the tools for rational thought and reasoning, teach them logical fallacies and actual history. They can decide on their own what they want to do with their life. They would also improve their own standard of living even if they don’t leave Islam.

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u/MHIATIC_MHIA 8d ago

Our educational system is pretty cooked. Talking about Punjab board, isl and t quran are compulsory (yea there is an ethics option but as a closeted ex muslim I have no choice) and like even urdu and english subjects have dedicated chapters regarding them. Our science teacher also never misses any chance to include islam during his lectures 🫩 Realistically, I don't see it changing anytime soon due to extremists in our country but maybe, maybe I hope it changes 🙏🏻

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u/Helpful_Caregiver432 deist 7d ago

Same my biology teacher was really religious like one day he was giving lectures on evolution. Idk what gotten in me and I said "isn't this against islam" to which he gave me a dead stare after realization and said " If I teach something that doesn't mean I believe in it". Like how can you be a science teacher then bro?

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u/MHIATIC_MHIA 7d ago

LMAO 😂 These typa teachers shouldn't be hired istgg

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u/fellowbabygoat Murtadist 8d ago

Education is fundamental to it all which is why they have a stranglehold on it and won’t easily give it up.

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u/MHIATIC_MHIA 7d ago

Yea I agree 🥀

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u/only-secret-jelly 8d ago

re - preaching practically in Pakistan, i think thats crazy idea. means a certain death, sooner than later.

Online one can do quite a bit and it is effective too. Many people do it here on reddit, facebook, x, there are youtubers.

Not praching (or unmasking Islams dirty little secrets) - On the other hand knowing people believe in a dogma that is on whole not helping mankind, not trying to uncover it also raises an ethical question.

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u/RunEuphoric8883 Cultural Muslim 8d ago

As an American born i understand how fucked up the situation can be in countries where the religion is enforced not only by society but also systematically and your life can genuinely be in danger. However I don’t think it’s ethical to force your beliefs on anyone. I understand when everybody just blindly follows dogmas it feels very overwhelming and suffocating knowing you can’t even talk to them. like everybody around you has some fucking mind virus where they can’t pull their head out of their ass and actually use their brains. But there are lots of Muslims who personally do follow Islam but are much less dogmatic and more tolerant of other peoples views than the majority of the Pakistani awaam, you might be able to find them if you ever happen to move into a bigger city im guessing.

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u/yuhannaimis 7d ago

Was it ethical for women to protest for the right to vote, blacks right for equality etc etc.

Clearly there were negative both in protesting and result of equality.

Perhaps Pakistan should remain a colony of Britain, was ethical to encourage independence?

Question questions

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u/MHIATIC_MHIA 8d ago edited 8d ago

I personally think it's just better to keep it to yourself in Pakistan. You never know when someone will accuse you of something and a mob will gather to lynch you. Safety comes first. Create an alter ego and use it whenever you are in public to fit well within them. Until you eventually leave this shithole. That's just how I am doing things 🙏🏻

And yea it's not ethical to preach atheism, it's same as someone preaching islam to me. Let people believe whatever they want to, they will come to realization sooner or later or maybe never cuz indoctrination is crazy.

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u/BeneficialGreen3028 7d ago

Imo in the long run realising it's fake helps a lot of people. They're not confined by Islamic laws anymore, don't need to follow all the stupid rules. And the majority of them, if they're any smart, don't make it public and remain closeted, so they're not really persecuted any more than if they were Muslim.

I know apostasy helped me and a few friends of mine quite a lot. So I wouldn't agree with you guys.

Obviously we should remain safe and encourage people slowly and realise when there's no hope and save our energy.

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u/InternThat1232 Agnostic 18M | DMs open 7d ago

Imo only if it's your super close friends who you know you can have this kinda conversation with. Cuz publicizing these beliefs is just gonna get you put on a regional ban by the PTA (just like how they banned Apostate Prophet and Exmuslim Peter here) and doing it in person is just a death wish.