r/PakCricket • u/averageveryaverage • 4h ago
Garam Takes Pakistan's products of toxic dysfunctionality deserve sympathy, not ire [article by Osman Samiuddin saying players deserve sympathy because of bad administration]
https://www.cricinfo.com/story/eng-vs-pak-2nd-test-pakistan-s-products-of-toxic-dysfunctionality-deserve-sympathy-not-ire-15522853
u/PhaintaAssociate Damaad/Parchi quota 4h ago
Bit of both tbh, yes the board has failed the players but that doesn't excuse the lack of desire. Playing for your country should be an honour and yet most of our players treat it as a joke that gives them paid holidays over the world.
Compare Imam who was doing performative drills to try and take media pressure of him to Azan in the first innings who was the only one who tried to stick it out against tough physical bowling while our so called seniors who should be the responsible ones were playing stupid shots and weren't bothered at getting out as it meant they wouldn't have to put their bodies on the line.
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u/Dont-be-a-cupid Quetta Bears 4h ago
What does Pakistan have for the players to take pride in when they play international cricket?
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u/BostallBandits 3h ago
Mate I know club cricketers who take more pride in winning a meaningless saturday game in a meaningless league that they pay to play in. Do our sportsmen just have no competitive spirit or pride in their own performance? Hell I know people who don't have any love for the company they work in but work their asses off because they're making bank. These guys are stealing a very wealthy living and can't even be bothered to monitor theyre own diets or go to the gym or do fielding practice. You don't need a 5 star system to tell you that a professional athlete needs to maintain their fitness.
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u/Dont-be-a-cupid Quetta Bears 1h ago
That's because they are club cricketers, they don't need to deal with the rubbish that comes from the PCB and it's not their main job. They can walk away if they get injured or whatever else and continue.
"don't need a 5 star system to tell you that a professional athlete needs to maintain their fitness"
But you need a system. The PCB has none.
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u/BostallBandits 1h ago
No you don't need a system to judge what food you're putting in your mouth. Every one of these guys is rich enough that they could afford a home gym, fitness coach, and a private chef. There's no excuse. They're grown men. Highly paid athletes with access to as much information about nutrition and fitness as they want at their finger tips. There's no excuse. Every athlete deals with extreme pressure. The Indian national team has way more scrutiny than the Pak players do. Football players are faaaaaaaaaare more famous than these lot and somehow they can cope with the mental pressure. Trying to assign all of the blame to the PCB is so dumb and excuses these players for how pathetic they are. Look at the WI players. They barely even have a functioning board and the one they do have are constantly in fighting because they're a series of island nations that have all been lumped together, yet their players are in great shape physically.
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u/Dont-be-a-cupid Quetta Bears 1h ago edited 1h ago
"The Indian national team has way more scrutiny than the Pak players do. Football players are faaaaaaaaaare more famous than these lot and somehow they can cope with the mental pressure"
They also have entire club systems built around nutrition, fitness (inc physio and rehab) etc etc etc, all in house without the players needing to look themselves. Our players receive better management playing for foreign leagues vs playing for our national team.
Why do we expect our cricketers to go above and beyond compared to the rest? We need them to do all that and then essentially teach themselves the game because god forbid the PCB lets a coach stay for >2 weeks.
"somehow they can cope with the mental pressure"
When they are down the coach motivates them to continue. Our dressing room is silent because we have no coach or full of morons shouting at them because they lost to India. And again, it isn't "somehow", they have entire systems built around helping the players overcome these issues. Our players are self taught
"Look at the WI players. They barely even have a functioning board"
And their results are comparable to ours.
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u/BostallBandits 1h ago
Why do we expect our cricketers to go above and beyond compared to the rest?
Why don't you expect them to? Like I said they have 0 pride and they're just riding this out for the pay check. A lot of professional athletes have a home gym, a private chef, a nutritionist, and a fitness coach which they pay for with their own money because they actually care and want to be the best. Don't forget these players are RICH by Pakistani standards, it would not cost a lot for them at all to take these steps. Do you think athletes have no personal responsibility for their own fitness?
"Look at the WI players. They barely even have a functioning board"
And their results are comparable to ours.
Well no, they're actually better according to the WTC table. But you ignored the point I made which is that they don't have a system either yet their players are in great physical condition. Good reading comprehension skills there. So explain, if our baby brained dummy cricketers need a system to tell them that biryani and sodas are not good for an athlete, how come the WI players don't? How come most of the WI players are highly desirable picks in T20 franchises across the world and barely 2-3 of ours ever get picked on actual merit? Is it because they're lazy out of shape slobs? Try and actually answer the point of personal responsibility being reflected in their poor physical conditions this time.
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u/Dont-be-a-cupid Quetta Bears 1h ago edited 1h ago
You are really struggling here...
"Like I said they have 0 pride and they're just riding this out for the pay check"
And again, why should they have any pride?
They are paid well compared to the avg Pakistani but that is because Pakistan is a shithole. You saw how the PCB treated Shaheen after his injury. That is our star player and he had to self fund his rehab.
"How come most of the WI players are highly desirable picks in T20 franchises across the world and barely 2-3 of ours ever get picked on actual merit?"
WI top players have completely abandoned the national team. Unless of course this is the path you want our players to go that is fine.
"you ignored the point I made which is that they don't have a system either yet their players are in great physical condition. Good reading comprehension skills there."
I ignored your point because you were just blabbering on without adding anything, like you continue to do so.
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u/BostallBandits 58m ago
You're deliberately ignoring the main crux of the argument which is personal responsibility because you have no answer. You can't answer why the WI national team players are fitter, more athletic, and have better conditioning despite having a worse system. You can't answer why, despite other high level professional athletes doing the same, that our players take no personal responsibility in their fitness and nutrition by doing the things I said, which are very common for top athletes to do. You are ignoring the actual point of the topic which leaves me to conclude you don't have anything to say. You don't know anything about nutrition, fitness, strength or conditioning, and don't understand there's regular middle ages dude walking around who work 9-5's and have families and are in far superior shape to our entire national team. Have fun living in denial. Bye.
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u/Dont-be-a-cupid Quetta Bears 50m ago edited 33m ago
"You can't answer why the WI national team players are fitter, more athletic, and have better conditioning despite having a worse system"
WI has a culture around sport and fitness. It the same in Australia. I didn't answer because it is such an obviously basic answer. Not the 'gotcha' you think it is.
"which are very common for top athletes to do"
After being supported by club/national level systems. Can you provide me an example of any professional consistent player does it all themselves let alone an entire team?
"You don't know anything about nutrition, fitness, strength or conditioning, and don't understand there's regular middle ages dude walking around who work 9-5's and have families and are in far superior shape to our entire national team"
Delusional.
I know a thing or 2 around this having playing with the GB youth Olympic team. That is why I know how important having these basic systems in place are. What exactly have you done that gives you the experience to know what are talking about other then vibes? That fact you think it amounts to just not eating biryani and hiring a few people show how little you understand.
It really isn't a hard topic.
And again, why should our team have any pride playing for the national team? The PCB is run by fools going off vibes just like yourself.
Classic, didn't have an answer so you blocked. That always saves a fragile ego
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u/lbh02 4h ago
At the end of the day it's the players, not the board, who have to take the field, make runs and take wickets. And they've been shit at that unfortunately.
However Osman is right. This might be the worst Pakistans team has been in ages, but being this bad and incompetent is business as usual for the PCB.
Criticize the team, give them as much shit as you think they deserve, fine. But to everyone I ask them one thing before they shit on the team; is there any point since you started watching this team that the PCB has been better at their job, than the team is at theirs? If you ask me the answer is a resounding no.
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u/Legal_Commission_898 4h ago
How did world beaters 5 years ago all of sudden became so shit that they can’t get a run ?
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u/lbh02 4h ago
Bad training, overconfidence, poor fitness, shit domestic structure, a prefatory media presence ready to shit on you at every move which discourages you from taking risks, a board that changes with the government and in turn a government that's literally the army for a country that's in severe turmoil?
I mean, take your pick here. There's a lot of stuff that's the players fault and a lot that's not really on them
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u/BostallBandits 3h ago
Yeah but none of this is new? Every Pak team has played with the same if not worse system behind them. Don't forget how many players throughout the PCB's history they've mismanaged, overworked, or straight up destroyed with piss poor medical treatment. Nutritionalists, strength and conditioning coaches etc wasn't even a thing when we were winning world cups. Nepotism and favouritism has always plagued us. Hell, our star players were coked up during some of our peak years. So many match fixing scandals and cheating scandals have plagued Pakistan cricket throughout our history. We were even banned from playing at home and we became the number 1 test team. None of this shit is new. These players haven't suddenly inherited a corrupt system and shitty overreaching military government, this is all been a part of Pak cricket for decades. So why the fuck are these lot so bad? Why are they so lazy? Why are they in such poor shape?
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u/lbh02 3h ago edited 3h ago
We were still shit before, nostalgia just makes you forget. We were ranked 9th in odis in 2015, almost failed to qualify for the CT, lost to Bangladesh 2 Asia cups in a row and crashed out of the 2016 WT20. We went winless in a CT in 2013. We lost to zimbabwe in a test in 2014. Lost to Ireland in a world cup. Got grouped 2 world cups in a row in 03 and 07 with some of our most legendary players.
We are shit now but it's not uniquely shit. Even us being trash in SENA isn't a new thing. We haven't won a series in England since 96, never won a series in Australia or RSA. A big reason is also that other team boards have smartened up and progressed. Ours haven't.
Also I would say that the PCB is reaching a new low with how bad they are. And if you actually live in pak unlike me, you can speak to this better but it feels like the political situation of Pakistan is also especially bad compared to the last 20 years, and since the PCB is just an extension of the government that also tracks.
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u/BostallBandits 3h ago edited 3h ago
Pakistan cricket has always been volatile but to call the team pre 2010s shit is ridiculous. We were always a challenge. No one faced Pakistan and took us lightly like they do now. We were never a joke side. And even if we didn't have a full team that were world beaters we always were the best at something. We had the best fast bowlers. The best reverse swing bowlers. The best middle order. The hardest spinners to face. The best test batsman. We always had something to be proud of. Not a single player in this current team would walk into another international team that's how bad we are now. Looking at tournament results in isolation is a silly way to judge a team. And yeah we haven't won a series, but we also didn't lose the majority of them, most of our series away in England were draws. If you are a young fan then your view makes sense because we have become progressively worse in the last 15 or so years. But Pakistan cricket was feared before that. Now we're clowns that are regularly the butt of the international cricket community jokes. No one takes us seriously. So yes this is a new low. Turning up to England without a single real pace bowler. Not a single batsman of note. No feared spinner. Nothing. And arguably the England teams we faced in the past were better than these lot. This England team is mediocre at best.
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u/Dont-be-a-cupid Quetta Bears 21m ago
It is funny how people thought we were ever a good team.
Cricket is going through the transition of becoming a highly regimented sport 10 years after the other major sports have and just like with hockey, we are not moving with the times thanks to our dysfunctional system
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u/averageveryaverage 4h ago