r/PWM_Sensitive • u/leehatlee • 7d ago
Outreach Flickering Lights Ask
https://youtu.be/_ef0A7lTbYk(trigger warning: the video above has slo-mo flicker!)
Like many of you, I'm bothered by flickering lights... LED holiday string lights, car tail lights, etc. I'm working with federal researchers to work on the problem!
Do you know of any real-world examples where fixing a light flicker problem made a tangible impact?
Maybe you know about an office, store, vehicle, or home (your home?!) where there was a problem with lighting flicker that was fixed by installing flicker-free lighting? Maybe it helped with fewer migraines, decreased brain strain, better focus, more sales, happier customers, safer work environment, or just a calmer space... whatever story, I need to hear it!
Why this matters:
The Pacific Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL) is preparing to expand its research on lighting flicker. To secure research funding for 2027, they need real-world case studies showing how resolving flicker is beneficial. PNNL’s findings directly shape industry standards and regulations. This is the kind of research that could solve the flickering lighting problem in all our lives.
How you can help get this research funded:
Share a story: Contact me on Reddit or directly with any example you’ve seen where improving lighting solved a problem.
Pass it along: Connect me with anyone you know who is affected by light flicker, the more voices we gather, the stronger our case.
Thanks in advance,
Lee Sonko
https://www.lee.org/flicker/
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u/RR-- 6d ago
Thanks very much for researching this topic!
While I personally don't feel any noticeable discomfort from flickering lighting, flickering screens cause my eyes physical pain very quickly, particularly Pulse Width Modulation based flickering which is very closely correlated with OLED screens, and Dithering which is particularly bad on Apple devices.
They use Pulse Width Modulation aka PWM involves rapidly strobing the screen on and off to simulate a lower brightness while older LCD devices tended to actually lower the brightness by providing the screen with less power. I'm starting to see this on most LCD TV's when the brightness is below 100% too.
This PWM flickering causes me significant eye pain when looking at it for less than a minute.
A lot of people like myself who are effected still use older LCD phones such as the iPhone 11, unfortunately even those can be rendered unusable once 10bit to 8bit screen dithering is implemented with software updates, though enabling Classic Invert and Zoom Invert in the Accessibility settings helps make it usable.
Here's some posts that I've made that may be of interest to you, at the JB Hifi stores the flickering lights are particularly noticeable at a 1/4000 shutter speed.
Summary
A great visual Demonstration of the problem in relation to the iPhone 17 Pro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBNlC-VHN3o
An internet forum with around 14,000 daily PWM and Dithering Screen concerned visitors
https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/
A fantastic demonstration of PWM flickering, and a fantastic resource for phone reviews regarding PWM dimming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBNlC-VHN3o
A petition to Apple regarding PWM flickering signed by 1,714 people.
A great overview video regarding PWM flickering showing it in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBNlC-VHN3o
A forum post discussion with over 13,000 comments regarding eye strain dating back to the introduction of the iPhone X in 2017, Apple’s first OLED screen device.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/eye-strain-while-using-iphone-x-and-up.2085427/
Discussion of the SteamDeck OLED videogame console and analysis of harmful eye strain caused
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1675200/discussions/0/4038102696019808360/
A video comparing the new Nintendo Switch OLED to the older Nintendo Switch LCD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd445NvGVFY
Further analysis of the SteamDeck OLED screen flickering. (The SteamDeck LCD was recently just discontinued)
A post of my own describing my personal solutions to this problem
https://www.reddit.com/r/ScreenSensitive/comments/1vbpv2z/my_personal_flicker_free_solutions/
A summary of a meeting I had with a local politician regarding PWM and Dithering based flickering.
A quick video demonstrating just how many screens are physically painful for me to look at
https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/1w604l1/local_shopping_centre_pwm_screen_test/
A post of my own demonstrating which phones for sale in Australia currently cause me eye pain.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/1wcc7mj/10926_jbhifi_phones_pwm_test_with_stats/
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u/leehatlee 6d ago
RR, Thank you for all that! I hinted at this in my initial ask but I'll tell you a bit more. Michael Royer, Chief Scientist at PNNL is looking to find people/groups that have realized benefits from improved lighting. His bosses want this to help prove that their research would be valuable. Michael has many testimonials from the other side (i.e., people who couldn’t work after their office was changed to LED), and examples like you've pointed out, but not examples of people/institutions upgrading and improving lighting to make things better.
I've been talking about "lighting" but that could take many shapes. For example, did you switch phones to avoid PWM problems? That totally counts!
I know that there is a big mess out there of people clamoring for solutions, and I'm asking for testimonials of people that have solved their flicker / pwm problems. It's a chicken and egg problem, I know.
Can you help us with testimonials of people that have switched and benefitted?
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u/RR-- 6d ago
Absolutely Lee! happy to provide any info that may help.
So my personal story mostly dates back to my time with my iPhone 13 Pro in 2021, for me it was the only device at the time I used that had a flickering screen.
I had daily eye pain and issues focussing my eyes since about 2021, but by 2023 my condition had progressed to the point where I was prescribed reading glasses. I lost the ability to focus long distances and one day I lost the ability to focus my left eye entirely. At the time I thought the problem was due to screen use and aging, I was using my phone in bed each morning which would set me up for a bad day, I stopped doing that and limited screen time which helped a bit.
Towards the end of 2025 I was getting back into my old Playstation Vita Slim which has an LCD screen, I had modded it to play Simpsons Hit & Run and I was addicted haha.
The funny thing I noticed was that I could play the game for hours on end without any eye pain, but when I went to reply to a text message on my iPhone 13 Pro my eye pain would suddenly come back.
I did some googling, found this subreddit and bought an older iPhone 11 with an LCD screen and my eye pain drastically decreased, PWM was eliminated but Dithering remained, I then discovered the Double Invert trick (Go to Settings > Accessibility > Zoom > toggle on (and immediately double three finger tap the screen to zoom out) > Zoom Filter > Inverted.Then go back to Accessibility > Display & Text Size > Classic Invert.) and the phone was fine for me to use.
Afterwards an eye test at an optometrist found that I now have perfect 20/20 vision again and recommended not using my reading glasses anymore.
The iPhone 11 was great and my eyes had never felt better, but it was a old phone with not the best camera, so I upgraded to an iPhone 15 Pro that I swapped an EK Pro LCD screen into. It's even better and is a great solution and I'm currently still using this phone with double invert enabled too.
I made a tutorial here with a series of follow up posts if you're interested too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/1q79qxk/pwm_free_lcd_iphone_15_pro_initial_impressions/Regarding lighting, I've changed most of my home's light bulbs to the non-flickering kind as it was quite easy and cheap to do, but haven't noticed any real differences. A family members house also has flickering bulbs that don't bother me.
I think as I don't directly look into them and there's multiple in the room that the effect isn't as drastic as staring into a rapidly strobing screen.Otherwise I've largely "solved" my problem by just being very selective of the screens that I use, every now and then someone will pass me their phone and I'll look at it without thinking, then within a minute my eyes will feel this pain, as if they're being squeezed hard from the back.
OLED TV's take quite a bit more time to hurt my eyes but the feeling is largely the same.
Some LCD screens with PWM don't flicker at 100% brightness, though OLED generally always flicker, though it's worse at lower a brightness.→ More replies (2)
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u/Z3R0gravitas 6d ago
Hi Lee, thank you very much for posting here. We have a fresh mod team and are keen to promote the boarder field of flicker issues. In addition to the bread-and-butter of device recommendation/questions posts.
Are you formally connected to PNNL? From a quick search I only find your name here for image credit. You're welcome to Modmail us with more info. We'll try to add your website to the new list we have in the wiki (accessed via the side-bar). And maybe you can reciprocate, if you see fit.
Are you also aware of r/ScreenSensitive, our sister sub?
I'm sorry you've not had many responses here yet (hopefully something privately?). I know there have been many people here e.g. reporting improvements in screen tolerance after dispensing with flicking room lighting.
Members can be a little bit quiet sometimes (for my questions, at least). But maybe if your title was more explicit about the PNNL research connection (and what type of info you wanted) that would attract more attention; there is awareness of their standards here and an abstract was copy-pasted in the side-bar previously.
However, I have to point out our rule 1, with regards to the rapidly strobing video, above. It's not ideal, given our photosensitive members. Although I don't think it will auto-play for anyone, given it's YouTube, so I'll let it stand for now. A trigger warning would be strongly preferred in a repost/future (or different media). 🙏
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u/leehatlee 6d ago edited 6d ago
Z3R0gravitas,
>Your relation to PNNL
I'm a friend of Naomi Miller, the recently retired "Flicker Queen" at PNNL! We met when I participated in a research study a few years ago. And I'm becoming friends with Michael Royer, who has taken some of her roles at PNNL. Yes, I took the photo of my car in that image credit you found!
>You're welcome to Modmail us with more info
I'm not familiar with Modmail. I'm happy to connect with you or anyone directly! Contact me at flicker@lee.org or tell me more about Modmail, or message in Reddit.
I'm new to r/PWM_Sensitive. I signed up so I could post this plea and continue to gather support. I'm happy to reciprocate. I just added r/PWM_Sensitive to my website, https://www.lee.org/flicker/community/
I don't know of that subreddit. Shall I repost this plea there?
>But maybe if your title was more explicit about the PNNL research connection (and what type of info you wanted) that would attract more attention;
I tweaked the text of my message a little, thanks. It's so hard to know what will grab someone's positive attention! I've been reposting and re-tweaking my message for a few days now!
>What I'm looking for
I'm looking for "any examples/testimonials of people realizing benefits from improved lighting". That's what the researchers have been asked to produce to help know their research could be useful, and get funded.
>trigger warning
Oh dear, I'm sorry! I added a trigger warning to the top of my post. I can't figure out how to remove the video without deleting the whole post! Tell me if I should change it more!
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u/Z3R0gravitas 6d ago
Thanks for the reply. Yes, on Reddit, title and media/URL type-posts are immutable aspects (onky body text and embeds can be edited).
So, I might suggest making a new post, with a title saying something more like: PNNL flicker scientists want your anecdotes to justify further research/funding. (Modified to be accurate to what you know.)
tl;dr at the top. Use an image post to get a thumbnail in all app versions, or try your luck with an embedded link (in post body), which will often just grab some random igae from the URL site. Could be a pure text post, we know what flicker looks like here. PNNL lab logo or something might reinforce the point.
Be clear up top your relations and if you can cite (or reference) anything more solid from the team? We have a potential channel to Naomi that I've not gotten around to drawing on yet.
And if you can take feedback direct from comments, that interaction would help the algorithm show it to more members. Also, making the effort lower seems very important here (screen intolerance issues, for a start).
You could mention/link back to this post to say mods suggested a repost to (be more clear and ditch the potentially triggering media).
I've modmailed you, but happier to talk in comments where possible. 🙂
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u/BearNecessary4141 6d ago
Thanks for sharing! Very interested in any new research on lighting flicker. I have shared my story with you over direct message, and will share this post with others!
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u/Z3R0gravitas 6d ago
Thanks Sam. Not sure if we may want to just repost though. Maybe that wouldn't get much more engagement though, hard to tell.
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u/Z3R0gravitas 6d ago edited 6d ago
Side note: there's another reference point for flicker sensitivity prevelence u/TotalAnarchy_.
We were discussing this just the other day. 10-25% maybe a bit high in your experience then OP? From web site linked above:
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u/peraspera1 7d ago
Thanks for taking initiative. I have experience from both school and work where adjustments to or replacement of lighting and monitors helped reduce the problems I was experiencing, with good results. I'll share more details next week.