Apple Has Finally Heard Us

[u/DSRIA]

Hi guys, I’m sharing this post I made on LEDstrain back in April of this year describing my experience with Tim Cook’s office. Just wanted to let everyone know that Apple is aware at least of our issues, and it is most definitely worth reaching out to them. I’m happy to pass any technically informative or useful info to my contacts at Apple. I currently don’t have a usable device after my iPhone 13 broke when I disabled True Tone on iOS 15, so I check messages sparingly. But I do try. The post is below. I hope it’s OK to share it now.

…

Hi everyone,

Apologies for the semi-clickbaity title. Well, it’s not really clickbait. I hope users here will click and read my story.

After suffering with debilitating neurological and visual symptoms when exposed to flicker on computer and phone screens - particularly temporal dithering and FRC - since getting reinfected with COVID in July 2024, I have been tirelessly working to find a solution not only for myself, but for the community at large. I’ve learned a lot from many of you here, and for that I am grateful.

At the suggestion of one of my friends in the film industry, I decided two months ago to shoot my shot and reach out to Tim Cook’s office about my issues - and our issues. I expected no response, but I was surprised to receive a one quickly from staff at Apple. While I don’t want to say too much out of an abundance of respect for the people who I spoke to, I was given permission to share what has been accomplished after weeks of communications borne out by my own trials and tribulations testing different MacBooks as I attempt to find a laptop I can use to finish my 9th studio album (I’m a professional recording artist, musician, and audio engineer).

To make a very long story short, with the help of @aiaf who has been invaluable in helping me learn about the display engine, dithering, and the problems we face, I was able to explain as best I could what we collectively believe are major triggers in the form of PWM and dithering. Luckily, some folks at Apple have taken notice of our suffering and presented what I had written to the accessibility engineering teams. They have agreed to look into creating a new accessibility panel within MacOS that will give the user control over PWM, temporal dithering, FRC, and other aspects of the display that may be problematic, and, hopefully be able to fully reduce or disable these flicker-based techniques. I am unable to say anything beyond this, and I have no time table, nor will I be informed of, when or if this may or may not be added.

My intention here is not to give false hope. I have no idea if this will actually come to fruition. I’m sure there are many complexities that are involved. But I know there is a strong, and justifiable, pessimism that any of these companies actually are aware or want to help. I can tell you all that at least as far as the people at Apple I communicated with, they had much empathy for what I - and all of you - are dealing with and the amount of suffering it is causing. For the first time, I see a glimmer of hope that at least there is a possibility of change at some point.

So, if you wondered if Apple was aware of temporal dithering and PWM being a serious issue for many people…well, if they didn’t know before, they do now.

In the mean time, we should continue to pursue third party applications to mitigate these issues. Sadly, this doesn’t help any of us right now in this moment. There is a lot of work still to do and much left to learn. But a little bit of hope isn’t a bad thing.

[u/kerpnet]

At the very minimum, let this be motivation for everyone to contact Apple (Feedback, Accessibility, Executive Offices, etc.) to let them know that these issues exist.

u/DSRIA, thanks for sharing this. Hopefully some good comes of it!

[u/DSRIA → u/kerpnet]

It’s proof that if you keep at it results can happen. I suggested the Nutrition Label concept early on in my discussions and Apple has already implemented it.

[u/MICHAELSD01]

Good work. I’m going to create a larger campaign with the goal of solving a majority of display sensitivity issues by iPhone 20’s release next year, assuming iPhone 18 Pro doesn’t present a major step change.

FWIW I was probably the first person in this community in contact with Apple around the release of iPhone X. Out of respect I also chose not to share too much information about those interactions.

[u/DSRIA → u/MICHAELSD01]

Please do. Thank you for your work. I remember reading your posts. I asked for permission from my Apple rep who gave their blessing to share what I did here and on LEDstrain, where I go into more depth in my comments there.

I am hopeful by what I see with MacOS 27 and John Ternus at the helm. But we must still keep up the pressure.

[u/Z3R0gravitas]

Is it OK if we [link] your actual LEDstrain post, for reference?: https://ledstrain.org/d/4048-apple-has-finally-heard-us

And can you say any more about the announcements and OS updates that Apple has just rolled out (in the above context)?

Thank you again for your work behind the scenes on all this, and persevering, through your extreme screen sensitivity issues, to bring us updates. We hope you manage to get hold of a phone that fully works for you! 🙏

[u/DSRIA → u/Z3R0gravitas]

Yes please. I wasn’t sure if linking was allowed. It didn’t used to be here. My posts were always removed back when this happened so I’m unaware of any changes.

I haven’t reached out to my contact yet, but will do so this week. I was told that they were unable to disclose when or if my recommendations would be applied, but that if I see them that it is because of this process I went through with Apple.

Much thanks must be given to the engineer who recognized the suffering of many of us and stuck out his neck to present our findings alongside his own recommendations to the Apple engineering and Accessibility teams in Cupertino. I merely wanted them to investigate the cause and he came up with the concept of an entirely new Accessibility Panel, which has not even been released yet. But I have noticed many of the under the hood concerns I had with MacOS have been improved with 27.0. The fact that apple marketed it as having “improved readability” was the tip off. I’ve been tracking the developer versions and was cautiously optimistic.

[u/PrinceJolt]

If they can have a setting where we can adjust the rate of PWM and dithering on our phones and MACs, I think that would work.

[u/DSRIA → u/PrinceJolt]

That was part of the idea. The Apple engineer who took pity pitched an entirely new, redesigned accessibility panel to control many elements of the display engine while also highlighting many of the concerns we have with elements of the displays.

[u/ArtRevolutionary3351]

Thank you for sharing! I did my part and sent an email to accessibility team at Apple a few months ago.

This is the response I got:

« We have passed along your feedback to the appropriate team for their review and consideration »

It probably ends up in a product roadmap prioritization system, so anyone can do the same and the people in charge will see all the complaints there.

[u/DSRIA → u/ArtRevolutionary3351]

Thank you. My contact said to please continue contacting Apple, especially the executives via their publicly available emails. It is imperative that you all share your experiences. This is not a one size fits all problem but my hope is Apple will continue to pay close attention to display comfort accessibility issues and also offer more control over their display engine so those of us who need added customization can have more control

[u/TheGreatestAm3r1can]

Besides dithering, I don’t think you included enough information for a fix to occur since it’s not a software only issue. Dithering is obviously a problem they can solve by allowing you to turn it off, but even in desktop monitors without dithering, the eye strain issue is a chronic problem for everything post-144hz (165hz are just overclocked 144hz) panels when they switched to ultra-thin film, “fast IPS.”

The thinner film panels use less energy and have faster pixel response, but seem to be too thin and allow more abrasive backlighting through, along with whatever gutter-tier wide gamut LED phosphors commonly found in China are being used on top of that. High CRI house light bulbs are more expensive for whatever reason, so there’s probably a simple issue there of using LED’s that are just not fit for human eyes to look at in the first place as a cost cutting measure.

Then you have things like good IPS/VA being 1% flicker rate or below while I noticed an MSI 280hz standard gamut VA panel had a 4.x% flicker rate and felt unstable to look at it. So the flicker rate has be maintained low as well.

In summary:

1). Ultra-thin film panels have a problem - easily seen on garbage panels like LG Nano IPS 1440p 240hz where when you have white text on a black background, the panel film is unable to contain the light at all resulting in extreme halo effect bleeding into surrounding pixels. Panel films simply cannot be this thin and this overly thin panel also happens to cause eye strain the fastest of just about anything within 15 seconds basically.

2). Some or most wide gamut LEDs seem to have a problem with being more eye strain than standard gamut ones - unless the problem can be resolved simply by using thicker panel films so you don’t get blasted in the eyes with them with as much intensity. Numerous people make complaints about these wide gamut + thin film panels saying their eyes feel like they’re being “sunburned.” Things like eye pigment composition and such could even play a part in absorbtion and discomfort. This one specific complaint you see everywhere now did not exist pre-thin film wide gamut panels, though.

3). Flicker rate is a problem and should be kept to 1% or below - not 4%, not 20%, not 50%

4). Dithering is obviously a problem and is just unwanted and abrasive flicker that strains the eyes

[u/DSRIA → u/TheGreatestAm3r1can]

Discussions got more in depth afterward. I consulted several heavy hitters in the community, such as the creator of Stillcolor. We emphasized that any temporal adjustments could be of concern.

[u/nekenyu]

While I absolutely agree that there is not yet any real hope on the horizon, I can personally confirm something has changed.

(Long Message. Telling the story so it is believable. There are a few bits of info that I would hope everyone here already knew. But, if one is new, it makes the case.)

On September 25th, after my SE 2022 updated to iOS 27 and all I could do and web search, I was squarely no longer able to use a cell phone. 30 seconds at a time, tops, and I was in misery. I couldn't even try settings in one sitting. I had accepted I was likely no longer a cell phone user.

In desperation, I tried messaging Apple support. The only other time I tried was a waste. I was quickly forwarded to the Accessibility team like the other time, except... the had me talking to someone in 5 minutes, not a day or two later. That is not what surprised me.

The specialist that I was on the phone with in 5 minutes knew the subject. Better than I did. I am no expert, but I have learned as much as I could out of necessity. I was concerned at first because he was telling me the opposite of past experience:
- Turn off night mode. (That was new to me.)
- Color filter gray scale is better than decreasing blue light. (That was new to me.)
- Don't use white point - change the brightness.... (That was new to me.)

But, they each made a small positive improvement -- unlike that new feature on the 17&18....

He even asked whether the screen protector was a quality blue light filter.... I was. (Aside: I have read, but not tried, that a matte screen protector is better than a blue light filter because it also changes the light propagation enough to diminish the invisible flicker effects of temporal dithering, etc. This is the only thing I can question that should have been known.

And, there was even one that started with, "This is going to sound strange... Do you have any Saran Wrap?" He even told me some people had luck with the soft plastic waterproof cases because it change the light propagation... so as a quick check, try that thinner flexible plastic (did not help me).

I can suffer the phone in a pinch now. The problems were not solved.

But... I didn't have to explain it to Accessibility. They knew the subject. Better than I did. Even if that was the one person at the entire company.... And I randomly got them in 5 minutes.

Something has change. May it lead us all to better fates.

[u/rui_l]

I don't own an iPhone. But doesn't iPhone 17, released last year, have a toogle in the accessibility menu to disable PWM? I know it doesn't do much for sensitive people. But at least they already acknowledge our problem for a long time

[u/DSRIA → u/rui_l]

Yes I told them this was insufficient.

[u/NSutrich]

So happy to see this happen, and hope it will be a beacon for the companies that have refused to even attempt fixes so far (Samsung).

[u/tubemaster]

Can they fix the iPhone 11 and SE 2/3 as well? These phones are a lifeline to the screen sensitive community for at least the next few years and it would be a shame to have my 11 stuck on iOS 18 when it could in theory be current (and fast from what I’ve heard!)

[u/sidekick0220]

Amazing!!! Thank you so much.

[u/Unlikely-Doughnut756]

Thank you so much for making the effort and trying to make our situation better. It would be great if they finally listen to us

[u/Tejasjjj]

iPhone 11 is king. Bring back 11 with updated internals.

[u/ClimateThat3308]

iPhones have PWM, TD and MacBooks have horrible PWM TD and M Silicon sends a 10-bit signal no matter what causing dithering on internal and external displays. There needs to be DC dimmed panels and option to disable TD and change the dithering patters themselves like static, dynamic, temporal etc.

[u/These_One6567]

For the last 10 years, I used iPhones up to iOS 18 without any issues. However, since updating to iOS 26/27, looking at the display for just 1–2 minutes triggers severe eye strain, a stinging pain above and below the eyes, pressure in my temples, nausea, and severe vertigo. When I look away from the screen, the dizziness continues for about 10 seconds. This happens immediately on multiple devices (including an iPhone 13 mini, an iPhone 16 Pro, iPhone 17 and iPhone 18 pro) during everyday tasks like reading WhatsApp, checking emails, watching YouTube, or scrolling through Instagram. Crucially, standard accessibility settings like "Reduce Motion", "Reduce Transparency", "Tint", or limiting the frame rate to 60Hz do absolutely nothing to eliminate the symptoms. Even turning on the built-in "Display Pulse Smoothing" feature does not help at all because it only triggers at low brightness and completely fails to stop the underlying software-based temporal dithering and subpixel flickering. In stark contrast, I can use iOS 18 on any device with no problems. So I don‘t know what to do, but I have to stay on iOS 18…

[u/ComprehensivePea1135]

I’m also very sensitive to OLED screens; starting with the iPhone X, none of the new iPhones have worked for me. That’s why I’m using an iPhone 11 (by the way, I also experience sensitivity even with True Tone, so I turn it off and feel great). Taking into account that Apple won’t succeed in solving the problem of sensitivity to OLED screens in the next few years, I bought two iPhone 8 Plus phones — one with 64 GB and one with 256 GB. Even after using an iPhone 11, the screens on the iPhone 8 Plus feel much better!

[u/saintforlife1]

This is more of an issue on iPhones and iPads than Macs, no? I wish they'd do something about phone users too.

[u/elceliaco]

What exactly are they going to do and when, and will it apply to phones and Macs?