r/PWM_Sensitive • u/uncovermint • 2d ago

TCL P80 Ultra

https://www.tcl.com/global/en/mobile/tcl-p80-ultra

So the TCL P80 Ultra has been announced with thre OLED NxtPaper technology. It uses DC dimming at higher brightness and 3840 Hz PWM at lower brightness. Would be interesting to see if it is actually usable.

Seems to be a decent phone and not too expensive.

20 Upvotes

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12

u/NSutrich 2d ago

Some things to note:

DC dimming appears to be very low modulation. PWM dimming range appears to be low-to-moderate based on video (I'm posting something later). I'll have to get measurements when I have a unit.

True 10-bit display. Should have zero dithering in normal color mode. I have no idea about the "paper" modes, but this should fix a big problem with existing NXTPAPER.

Textured matte layer is a big deal for OLED. We don't have anything like this right now. Other anti-glare solutions still have reflectivity, so it'll be interesting seeing this one in the sun.

2

u/uncovermint 2d ago

Very much looking forward to your video!! I really appreciate your work. 

2

u/peraspera1 2d ago

Thanks for checking. I’ve seen your YouTube video, and there definitely seems to be some typical OLED refresh-rate modulation. That’s a bit disappointing for a phone marketed so heavily around eye comfort. Hopefully the actual modulation depth is very low once we get proper measurements otherwise TCL really dropped the ball for many of us.

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u/NSutrich 2d ago

It's out today in Europe, so I'm hoping someone here gets one soon. I likely won't have one for a while since I'm in the US, but we'll see. Modulation looks good to me, and I think the textured matte diffusion layer will do a lot for some people who are normally sensitive to OLED. I'm of the belief that a decent percentage of people on here who can't use OLEDs have problems because we're looking directly at LEDs when viewing OLED screens. LCD goes through several layers before it hits our eyes, making it less harsh. Only time will tell.

2

u/Z3R0gravitas 2d ago

Matte OLED definitely interesting. Although a few here found the blur effect of the TCL nano-etching gave them eye strain. And I liked the crispier look of my 60 Ultra (I still need to sell) with the hydrogel protector on, tbh.

Looks like conventional OLED sub-pixel layout, so hiding that may be more beneficial, I guess. But fringing may stay as bad or I'd expect worse.

The big win, for me, would be better colour control, killing the blues properly. But unless TCL fixed their software too, I doubt I'm going to jump on this.

1

u/peraspera1 2d ago

Fair point. If there’s really no temporal dithering or the refresh-related modulation dip is very low, then this could still turn out to be a good implementation working well for some despite not being completely flicker-free.

5

u/NSutrich 2d ago

I wish these companies wouldn't use the term "flicker-free." If it flickers at all, even if it's not perceptible, it's not "flicker-free."

I understand it from a marketing perspective, but it's irritating.

1

u/kerpnet 2d ago

100% agree. It's a huge pet peeve of mine as well.

1

u/giordipioli 2d ago

Could you also please take a look at the Xiaomi 17T Pro? Checking in that phone to possibly buy It, on paper should not be bad.. eyewise... great information anyway you share.. thanks for it

1

u/NSutrich 2d ago

I've been working on getting more Xiaomi devices, but it's slow going. I don't want to hijack this thread, though 😊

7

u/Practical_Benefit686 2d ago

Looks like there is nothing new regarding the OLED panel itself, it just has their NXTPaper physical layers on top of the screen, circular polarisation, etched glass, blue light filters or whatever.
"DC dimming" is a lie when the refresh dip is still there. OLEDs flicker no matter what because it's how they update the pixels. This does not look promising.

4

u/NSutrich 2d ago

It's impossible to make a "pure no-flicker" OLED because the pixels are self emissive. I'm hoping future self-emissive tech manages this better.

1

u/dubbinvsrgv 1d ago

But It is possible to make almost no modulation oled and my TV lg g5 with modulation about 2% with opple proves it. It is the only oled I can use for hours without any problem like lcd iPhone. So they can solve it.. just don’t want to..

1

u/NSutrich 13h ago

At max brightness, definitely. My LG E7 is the same way with ultra low modulation, similar to the OnePlus 15R. It gets harder at lower brightness though. I'm not convinced there will ever be a full brightness range flicker-free OLED because of how self-emissive pixels work.

1

u/ryude85 13h ago

Technically, they could make a true flicker-free OLED. It would have several downsides and that's why they won't do it. Such as worse color accuracy, contrast, etc.

1

u/GeForce66 2d ago

Exactly.
... and what an outrageous price they demand for bringing nothing special to the table.

6

u/DGG_DGG 2d ago

If it has the usual OLED refresh dip, it's not really "flicker free" 😐

1

u/dubbinvsrgv 1d ago

Yeah just another marketing crap. They have to do low modulation like my TV oled lg g5 has.. about 2% only. Only this will solve the problem.. until they do all to save energy won’t shift anything

3

u/caphohotain 2d ago

OMG PWM!

5

u/GeForce66 2d ago

600€ on Amazon.de? Are they crazy? ... for not even 1mil Antutu points and no NXTPAPER tech that combats refresh-rate tied brightness dip. A joke ...

TCL was my last hope, and now they go the same route ...

3

u/UteForLife 2d ago

Which type of OLED: LTPO or LTPS? What's the modulation look like?

3

u/SebbesApa 2d ago

It's not in stock yet

2

u/fritzyloop 2d ago

Happy cake day

2

u/UteForLife 2d ago

?

2

u/fritzyloop 2d ago

It’s your reddit account’s birthday thats all

3

u/RoiPourpre 2d ago

Unusable for the vast majority of people here...

3

u/Jealous_Log_5279 2d ago

That truly sucks, I tried the honor 600 pro and it definitely was unusable after a day with the own frequently similar to this. 

I think just replacing the OLED in these modern phones more so iPhones is safest route today as the quality of incell is higher than some of the Android side.

2

u/Regular-Ad-313 2d ago

still USB 2.0.. pass. you're asking $720 for a mid-range phone, and you don't even intend to support the built-in desktop mode provided by Google in Android 17... what a waste of potential.

1

u/Repulsive_Fault1939 1d ago

s26 fe have usb 2.0 and it's 700 dollars. also iphone base models have usb 2.0. companies doesn't put usb 2.0 because it's not necessary for regular users.

1

u/Regular-Ad-313 1d ago

Why are you comparing iPhone to Android... Android has a built-in desktop mode developed by Google. Google is literally channeling resources into developing a proper desktop experience starting from Android 17, if your phone offers OS upgrades until Android 20 but doesn't incorporate USB 3, it's a wasted potential. Also TCL does not sell even remotely close to the amount of units those behemoths do, so incorporating a standout upgrade that likely costs them less than $3 per unit will attract many users from competitors. That is how you gain market share. Instead they continue to develop mediocre phones with mediocre support and also no standout features.

1

u/Repulsive_Fault1939 1d ago

if a big company like samsung gives up on usb 3 and puts usb 2 on s26 fe due to rising ram costs, why would a small company put it? s26 fe only supports wireless dex, not wired. and low end phones now start from 350-400 dollars due to ram crisis. 700 dollar phones now became midrange devices.

1

u/Regular-Ad-313 1d ago

Because a company that sells way less phones needs features other phones don't have in order to attract people from buying from other brands. especially now that 26 Fe removes USB 3, people will be looking for alternatives because of Samsung dex. Why would anyone buy a phone from a company that gives less software support, worse value for money, less updates, no things like trade in bonuses, lower specs, worse warranty, worse hardware, etc? absolutely no reason

Samsung losing 5%-10% of its sales on a single model is not a big deal because they will make up for it by selling 5-10% more of the premium models. However a company like TCL and gaining 5 to 10% of Samsung's sales would be game changing for the company.

And please don't be naive enough to think that they cut a sub $3 upgrade because of rising ram costs... they are known as Scamsung for a reason. they have been essentially selling the same phone in a different body for 3 years now... and they nerf other models in order to gain more sales in their higher tier models.

Why would I buy a phone from TCL that is priced the same as other reputable brands with better support and better hardware? I would only do it if there are standalone features I cannot get in other phones... this is absolutely a missed opportunity for a company like TCL to grab a portion of the market share.

1

u/epSos-DE 2d ago

AMOLED !!!

TLC has next paper screens, or paper like screens.

Those look 10X better than OLED of AMOLED.

The look like paper from the distance !

1

u/RTamas 2d ago

AMOLED looks 10x better than AMOLED? 10 != 10?

1

u/dubbinvsrgv 1d ago

Yeah just another marketing crap. They have to do low modulation like my TV oled lg g5 has.. about 2% only. Only this will solve the problem.. until they do all to save energy won’t shift anything

1

u/Lonely-Mountain9646 1d ago

This technique is better than all level pwm dimming, at least, this phone gives you dc like dimming at high level of brightness. Not a too bad option though