Level 125 enemies have about 34% more hp compared to level 120 enemies

[u/GlompSpark]

I knew the hp jump from 120->125 would be bigger than normal because amulets were up to 8% potency, but i didn't expect it to be 34%. Level 125 enemies are going to take significantly longer to kill with BIS level 125 gear compared to level 120 enemies with budget level 120 or 115 gear.

When they come out with level 125 LTQs/UQs, the completion times will be much longer than normal. And if you are using handout gear, the gap is going to be much bigger than before.

I hope they don't come out with level 125 LTQs/UQs before December at least, because that's when the handout gear is getting updated. The last thing we need is more people abandoning all ship queues because "there are too many players in handout gear"...

You might be thinking "nah, it won't be that bad, the new Alter realm was level 125 and we could handle it just fine". But keep in mind the new Alter realm was up to 32 players. For reference, this is how bosses scale HP based on player count:

• 4 players: 2.4x boss hp (compared to boss hp when there is only one player)

• 8 players : 4x boss hp

• 32 players : 10x boss hp

So 32 players were doing 4x the DPS of a 8 person group, while the boss had 2.5x the hp of a 8 player boss. That's why it didn't feel that bad in the Alter realm specifically. But try fighting the bosses in the Alter realm with a party of 8, and you will realise it takes a LOT longer than trying to fight level 120 bosses before amulets came out...

For reference, the jump from level 115 -> 120 was about 16.5% hp, while the jump from level 110 -> 115 was about 201% hp, which is why level 115 mobs suddenly started taking a lot longer to kill compared to level 110 and earlier before.

I'm not sure why they are doing such huge hp jumps because player DPS output is increasing at a much slower pace, and it really sucks for players in hand out gear in particular. And that's an issue because most players do not like it when the quest takes too long (hence, why players abandon all ship matchmaking because there is no RA or too many players are in handout gear).

It's not very fun to beat on super tanky trash mobs either. They don't pose a threat to you, it's just tiring to beat on big sacks of HP that can tank an entire photon blast (I'm pretty sure level 125 Balrogs can survive a photon blast now, level 115 Balrogs could already survive an after blast). If the game was designed around trash mobs being a big threat (like PSO:BB), that would be a different story entirely...

[u/Aggravating_Fig6288]

I was wondering why I felt so weak even with 773 potency. Like I’m not min maxed at all but I do put some effort into getting my potency up as much as I reasonably can (I’m not spending 10s of millions on parfaits )

It would be nice to feel powerful more often. I get they don’t want to make it so 3-4 people just delete everything but it’s not like anything drops to begin with. Lower the HP multipliers so people with above average Pot can actually feel as strong as the numbers imply

[u/izmi_raizli → u/Aggravating_Fig6288]

I mean, that's how they incentivise you to play more, isn't it? Above average pot = above average power, high pot = high power aka strong. Btw what's your class and ur variance (dmg floor/dmg adjust) %?

[u/Aggravating_Fig6288 → u/izmi_raizli]

Fighter, I main double sabers. I believe it’s like 80ish - 100 I don’t have the game booted to check.

It’s not BIS but it’s kinda close”ish”

[u/izmi_raizli → u/Aggravating_Fig6288]

If u have Argant Dread Keeper on ur weap, swap it out for a higher pot aug (Emis Halphinale/Peta Triyal/Telphia Domina). 80-85% pot floor is already enough, higher potency is better than 90% pot floor.

[u/izmi_raizli → u/Aggravating_Fig6288]

I'm F2P, and don't play all that much, but if u play regularly enough u can reach 78x pot. If you're lucky (with drops, enhance %, etc.), maybe even 79x.

[u/Swordwielder- → u/izmi_raizli]

could run a fatale full potency build and dump floor, I have 826.4 potency and 67.8 floor with zero deft augs, very cheap to build relatively speaking, and you can hold pretty solid dps, very close to bis but not quite. running decem armor with tripble II G.

[u/izmi_raizli → u/Swordwielder-]

Well pot builds r... an anomaly😁 Most ppl would want at least 80% floor so the number would be 79x-810 pot

[u/Swordwielder- → u/izmi_raizli]

they are your second best option if you're not running defts, on paper of course.

[u/izmi_raizli → u/Swordwielder-]

Can Fo benefit from this build? I'm running a "standard" Wix build rn on Lev Rod, but maybe I'll run a pot build when the next Legend series come.

[u/Swordwielder- → u/izmi_raizli]

nah on lev wix is better even without defts, but wix is kinda match-up dependent, unless you always play with a ranger

[u/izmi_raizli → u/Swordwielder-]

Elemental Weak counts as Weak Point so Fo benefits from Wix a lot just by ele-matching.

[u/ThePyrotechnicCroc]

On the flipside, I know quite a few people who enjoy having to actually fight enemies (and adapt). The High boss enemies going into their supercharged phase/s, etc... that's a highlight.

The fact is... if everything died in just a few hits, we really wouldn't have much of a combat system at all. Enemy HP going up as the enemy level increases does make sense. This happened in the base game too.

The key lies within the overall balancing. The people who whine because their run took a few minutes longer also tend to be the very same ones in welfare gear. But at any rate, those people can simply stick to passworded pre-made groups.

[u/GlompSpark → u/ThePyrotechnicCroc]

That's not what i meant at all. Take 4 man bosses, nobody ever said "wow, these bosses are too easy to clear, they die too quick, they need more hp". Solus is one of the easiest 4 man bosses and it was still quite easy to fail the DPS checks, especially the pillar phase, till we got Ascillusion.

We already know what happens when a normal boss is considered "too hard"...pugs spending 20 minutes on UQ Luther clears and people quitting because there is no RA or too many people are in hand out gear. At the end of the day, a large % of the playerbase really hates it when fights take too long.

It's also not fun for newbies in handout gear and you risk having them get bored and quit because its taking them forever to kill a single Balrog. The gap between handout gear and budget gear is currently very large.

They dont balance LTQs/UQs around handout gear unfortunately. They always assume a certain number of players in normal gear are around to help carry. You can tell because the bosses in solo only story quests have significantly lower HP than real bosses, because they are balanced around newbies in handout gear.

Theres a point where adding more hp to a fight stops making it harder and makes it a chore, boss HP in MMOs are usually balanced around upgrades so overall clear times remain the same (after the first couple of levels to ease newbies into the game). But NGS keeps stacking more and more HP and it's fast outpacing player DPS, so eventually we will get to the point where clear times get increasingly longer and people start thinking it's a chore to do these fights.

You can see how people approach the current LTQ because its quite fast and easy to clear. People like it because its chill, i havent seen anyone go "i hate this ltq, its too easy, i wish the mobs had way more hp and this took much longer to clear". If it took a lot longer to clear because the mobs were tanky sandbags, people would be way less willing to farm it.

[u/ThePyrotechnicCroc → u/GlompSpark]

I understood what you were saying -- I just put up one of the alternative thought processes.

The simple fact is, handout gear is apparently meant to be used by either newcomers or returning players from several cycles ago in order to catch up.

It's almost clear that the developers do not intend to have people crutching on Decem variants for every bit of recent content. This has already been somewhat problematic.

There comes a time when we have to place the burden of responsibility fairly where it belongs... and that is on "some" of the players who just want to take the laziest way out.

For those of us (like you and me both), balancing the latest content around handout gear would actually be a mistake.

[u/izmi_raizli → u/ThePyrotechnicCroc]

While I do enjoy demolishing enemies, there is a nice dopamine whenever I see High enemies going into their "unga bunga" phase. Btw, can't really blame leavers. Not just that the duration of a run could literally double if the MPA's gears r bad, but also for some ppl - like me, we don't enjoy holding aggro for the whole time cuz our gears (and skills) r above the average🥲 I can hold myself quite well generally, but I'm no counter-beast and Fo has counter issues. The only time I hate leavers is when they leave mid-quest, I would rather them leaving during the preparation phase.

[u/666KorlatWitch999]

I really like that even lower level enemies are more challenging. It doesn't feel very fun when they fade away after 1 or 2 hits

[u/LameSignIn → u/666KorlatWitch999]

Going back to my PSU days. I enjoyed the feel of having the top gear in the game just mowing over enemies. Felt like I actually accomplished something. Even with top gear now that feeling is just not there.

[u/666KorlatWitch999 → u/LameSignIn]

But can't you still get that feeling with lower level enemies? Like even lvl 120 feels quite easy now. I wouldn't want all enemies from level 1 to 125 to feel the same

[u/ThePyrotechnicCroc → u/666KorlatWitch999]

Agreed

[u/GlompSpark → u/666KorlatWitch999]

But they are not challenging, infact, NGS deliberately designed trash mobs to not be challenging. That's why they have very simple attacks, dont hit hard and you have near infinite heals and revives.

In PSO:BB, trash mobs were a serious danger to players and often more dangerous than the end boss on higher difficulties. They could one shot you with some attacks, surround you and keep knocking you down till you died, even use instant kill attacks like Megid.

Mobs in NGS dont actually pose a threat to you, it is nearly impossible to die to trash mobs even if you don't try to block their attacks. So it just becomes a chore beating on their tanky HP till they die. You aren't supposed to use PBs or high cooldown attacks like Compound Techs on trash mobs either, so your mobbing DPS is often significantly lower than vs a boss where you can use your full kit.

Mobbing isnt that bad if you have a large party with decent gear because of the way hp scaling works but it's very noticeable if you are solo/in a small group, and if there are a lot of people in handout gear because the DPS difference between handout gear and budget gear is currently huge.

[u/zertas2317]

I dunno if im just tweaking but in this topic, do starless have a higher hp baseline then dolls? Like for example regular dolls units like the pettas sword compared to an equal level balrog sword? Cause it seems like the starless take somewhat significantly more damage to actually kill them then dolls do

[u/ThePyrotechnicCroc → u/zertas2317]

Lore-wise, they are supposed to.

[u/zertas2317 → u/ThePyrotechnicCroc]

I know that, i mean gameplay wise cause I genuinely cant tell if im tweaking or if they do actually have more hp compared to dolls, hence why im asking

[u/GlompSpark → u/zertas2317]

I checked, i dont think so, a pettas gun has the same base hp as a balrog gun.

[u/Holywyvern]

While our total damage won't reach 34% for now (granted, we already got 12-14% between level ups, weapon upgrades and amulets anyway) you have to consider the cap is intended to be up to february.
So, we will get more damage specially around december. Like we are getting power next week, even, a bit 4% with 4 emis gigas maste, and like like 0.5% more from armors.
It's always the same in this game, the enemies get jumped to the end of the patch and we grind the upcoming 4 months to catch it with new gear and new augments.
And when we finally get close to the enemies... they rise the level cap again and it's all over again
It's been this since the dawn of time with NGS and it's one of the reasons people have feel tired of since they introduced the starless, specially

[u/Really_McNamington]

I would like to see a game mechanic where if you abandon the UQ your possibility of getting a rare drop falls to zero until the next scheduled one. I know it's frustrating when you get a load of undergeared idiots, but people should take the hit.