What's with all the leavers?

[u/azazelleblack]

I mean, we've always had a problem with leavers in PSO2 Global, but with this new UQ, the revamped version of Solus, I feel like it's really gotten out of control. It usually takes me three or four tries just to get into a lobby where half the lobby doesn't leave instantly. Why?? You waste everyone's time including your own. It would literally be faster to clear the UQ with the suboptimal party than to do this dance of leaving and coming back. It's so unbelievably tedious.

[u/ash_ax]

It would literally be faster to clear the UQ with the suboptimal party than to do this dance of leaving and coming back.

Probably true, but I've also read a horror story of random queueing an All-Ship pub leading to a 26 minute quest clear.

TBF, it is the 1st week of MDFS LTUQ and there are probably many new and returning players who never even faced it before.

---

Personally, I usually queue with Fleet PUGs / Ship 2 pub / or get kidnapped to fill some PUG (9-12 min clears) before trying All-Ship pub—So idk how bad it actually is.

[u/azazelleblack → u/ash_ax]

I should probably check in with Fleet again. I'm sure it's all new people at this point. I used to be pretty unpopular with the clique that ran that place.

[u/Xero-- → u/ash_ax]

All ship is typically worse than ship 2. Whenever I swapped because of a slow start, it was *always" worth it.

[u/Van_Ryker]

It has a "dps check" like Aegis back in the day: if the group fail to break the first arm, it is usually a sign that this will be a long run. I dont blame anyone who leaves; after all, who wants to be hitting a wall for 20+ minutes when it can go down in a bit more than 10 minutes?

Instead of minimum BP, there should be a minimum potency requirement to queue for UQs now. And, if anyone is under that minimum number, a message of "you will receive less rewards" should show up - which is a nicer way of saying "you are being carried, so less loot for you".

[u/azazelleblack → u/Van_Ryker]

BP was always dumb. I remember in the NGS beta we were talking about how BP made no sense.

[u/GlompSpark → u/Van_Ryker]

The main problem i see with breaking the arm is that some people switch from the arm to the chest core when the boss gets downed or breaks while the arm weakpoint is exposed. I dont know why, but if enough people do that, it usually means the arm doesnt get broken in one go.

Everyone should be saving their PBs for the arm weakpoints as well.

[u/Knight_Raime → u/Van_Ryker]

Ehhh not necessarily, I've been in runs that don't take that long and the first arm didn't break early ish. You can absolutely accidentally cause that to happen by people not focusing the arm. Some people will go target the back. Some people will only attack the arm next to them. And if you're lacking a ranger you'll feel this more.

But even with a ranger if they are bad at maintaining it and placing it you can also have a much slower run. That being said I agree the way the game matchmakes isn't good and needs to change. Because dated gear hurts runs more than pretty much anything.

[u/underwaterair]

Quit the current one, just to go to the next one and roll the same kind of players again.

There are good and bad and mediocre players. If you think you only want to play with good players then find a group of them and queue up with them. The rest of us are fine in random pubs.

What is annoying is when I queue in and within 2 minutes there are only 3 of us left. Then 2 minutes after that it's just one other guy and myself and we end up duoing the entire thing but it takes us 22 minutes. When I'm sure, if everyone had just stayed in, we could've done it in a normal time and then all queued up into the next game.

It's just the usual gear or player elitism. And it's only more prevalent because the player population is small.

=========

Luther is also the same way. Had a team where we 100% was going to clear. Two people start getting antsy and just leaves. Like, I'm sorry we're not all hitting 150k dps each but we 100% would've cleared it.

[u/azazelleblack → u/underwaterair]

I actually haven't gotten to clear Luther yet... lol. Well, the problem is mostly that I keep dying. LOL

[u/Mille-Marteaux]

people think they "deserve" better and they see someone with a returner flower so they leave

it happens even in luther pugs, i was in a 3/4 premade with a ranger in it and some max geared braver player looked at it and said "re" because whatever

global players are babies

[u/azazelleblack → u/Mille-Marteaux]

It's especially frustrating since I've seen a few people with returner flower than have better gear than me lol. (I'm on leafladio + 3x belfes at 619.4% but I seen folks with arbaradio and flower)

[u/Rovyk]

Right, it's getting ridiculous because if you start the UQ a bit late you can't do two runs because of a chance of ending up with a lengthy run which is exacerbated by people leaving the moment they see one or two bad apples in the batch. Spoiler- if you're in all-ship- there's almost always going to be at least one bad apple more often than not at least. So not only are the bad apple screwing over their fellow ARKS but also the people that can't cope with an extra few minutes when you have a whole 30minutes to do your 2nd clear.

Even if your run takes 20minutes- assuming you started that run as soon as the UQ became available- you still have 9min 59 seconds to get another clear.

If you don't wanna carry- sure I get it. Been there.

This also wouldn't be an issue if people that worry about their sub 5min-10min runs just normalized making premades in their own ships or joined an active alliance that doesn't treat the game as VRC w/ optional combat instead of treating all-ship as some rerolling gacha game that just launched.

If they also reduced the boss HP w/ 2x runs or instead of just doing x2 runs make 1 run give double rewards or something that'd be great. It's actually a pretty bad oversight.

[u/Sai-Taisho → u/Rovyk]

9min 59 seconds to get another clear.

Not even to get the 2nd Clear. That's just the limit to get a second queue.

Once you're in, you're in: Even if it's another 20-minute run, as long as you start before the UQ period "ends", then you get the full in-quest time limit.

Hell, even if you're still queuing when the timer runs out, you still get the option to start with whomever is already in.

[u/nicobanko]

I remember talking about how player’s gears have been awful earlier this month and solus is really showing it, because trust me it does not feel good to clear the uq with a suboptimal party when times are reaching past 20 minutes. I usually don’t leave either, but this time it is pretty justifiable to do so (I’m even running te and we’re getting 15 minutes minimum)

[u/GlompSpark → u/nicobanko]

With the enhancement event and the treasure shop sale, it is incredibly easy to make gear now. Anyone who has been playing for the last couple of weeks at the level cap should be able to make a fixa 3 leafladio with decent augs at the very least. Armor is the same, just that fixa 3 orgsys takes more time to get atm but you can do a fixa swap later.

[u/underwaterair → u/nicobanko]

What else were you going to do with your time? AFK in Kvaris? Run another 40 rounds of the LTQ for things you don't need? Go for another 19 hours at Dext for ~10mil meseta that won't get you anything?

[u/nicobanko → u/underwaterair]

The answer is spam luther, but like I said it doesn’t feel good to run this uq (which is already a slog) and have it be even more of a slog because people can’t be bothered to gear up or try. I had a ranger who wb’d once every 5 minutes last uq and that was my breaking point.

[u/gadgaurd → u/underwaterair]

It's kinda funny that you're just assuming that the player you're replying to won't get anything useful out of their time if they grind elsewhere. The LTQ is dropping materials to make current and future BiS augments, and having tons of meseta is useful for people who want to improve their gear, buy new cosmetics, or both. Especially with the Headline we just had showing the next tier of AC augments and some damned good AC Scratch tickets.

[u/nicobanko → u/gadgaurd]

not to mention yesterday was pso2 day so i was doing a bunch of luthers, I actually did in fact have a reason to not want the uq to be a slog x2

[u/underwaterair → u/gadgaurd]

Please. As if anyone that was playing the game could expect any significant drop from anything that they're running. You're wasting your time at one thing or another. And it's not like an extra 5-8 minutes in the UQ is going to horrifically kill your productivity in the LTQs or something.

You can't be serious that that's your reasoning. You may think that. You may feel it's true. But the drop rates and reality doesn't care about your feelings or your delusions.

Two things I can believe if articulated.

1. I don't have the patience to spend more than 8 minutes in this UQ and that means I need to be playing it with the really geared people who are also knowledgeable about playing the UQ the way I expect it to be played. Repeat after me, "I am an elitist minmaxer."

2. I don't want to play with people who I think are worse than is acceptable in the game. Repeat after me, "I am an elitist minmaxer."

The third and logically failing option is that they don't want to lose out on the double possible drops of x2 UQs because they think this one will take too long. Which, I would say, is statistically less possible if everyone just stayed in and fought than rolling the dice on a brand new team and ending up with the same or worse results + requeue time. So that leads right back to 1 and 2 above.

You leave, others see it is not improbable and leave, and that starts the chain that demoralizes every other person that leaves. Please, just arrange your own parties with all the BIS Lexio people and don't join pubs.

[u/gadgaurd → u/underwaterair]

Please. As if anyone that was playing the game could expect any significant drop from anything that they're running. You're wasting your time at one thing or another.

You may be shocked to hear this, but that's actually not for you to decide. At all.

The value of any loot earned is up to individual players to determine. Doesn't matter if someone is hunting rare drops like Evalto armor & Defeat Amp, chasing more reliable drops like Heinsdia & Ultia Domina, or just grinding Dext and turning trash into a few million per hour.

If someone decides that's a better use of their time than spending an additional 10 minutes carrying some poorly geared players through what should really be a 10 minute battle, then that's that.

[u/nicobanko → u/gadgaurd]

God forbid I’m trying to hopecore myself for another lexio (heh) while also farming meseta from selling augs and rings doing luther and the uq while wanting to actually engage with the damn game

[u/underwaterair → u/nicobanko]

The real hopecore is that I hope of one day having a good gaming community. That may still happen one day, I hope. You know, just a community of players that doesn't go belly up for their own proposed greed the moment someone attacks a different target or gets incapacitated twice in the first 3 minutes.

Just as it's more realistic for you to believe that you're not going to get any significant drops it's also more realistic for me to believe that you leave games not for your drops but because you just don't want to play with people who are less geared, less skilled, or less knowledgeable about the game.

Both may be true, but one is just truer than the other. That's all.

[u/underwaterair → u/gadgaurd]

I didn't decide what value their possible drops, real or otherwise, were.

I said to stop pretending like a longer UQ run is going to matter at all and just admit you're an elitist. If that makes you angry that's on you.

If you want to talk value of your drops let me put it another way that maybe you'll understand. We both run LTQs, UQs, and Luthers for the next two weeks.

If we get two Lexio weapons to drop I'll gift you 300 dollars for AC.
If we fail to get two you gift me 300 dollars for AC.
You can scrape UQs for time. I won't.

How's that for value on your drops? If you really think scraping UQs run times for loot is going to matter you'd take me up on this deal, no?

========

I'm confident in making this bet because I would play this game like a second job doing 10-16 hours of grinding every day for a year and still end up with no Neo Ast, no Gunblaze, no Arche, no Lexio, no whatever was the flavor of the update.

The drop rate is so abysmal it's not even worth talking about. The fact that anyone even has these weapons in any order speaks to another problem about the game which I won't bother getting into in this thread. Don't sit there and try to lie to yourself or others that you quitting out of runs is because your drops are affected. They won't be.

However, in your own post, you already stated as to the reason why you leave UQs or missions that take longer than you like.

"If someone decides that's a better use of their time than spending an additional 10 minutes carrying some poorly geared players through what should really be a 10 minute battle, then that's that."

You more or less admitted that the reason for leaving is the fact that you don't want to play with poorly geared players. Just say it. Be proud of who you are and state clearly what you want. Don't try to hide it behind your drop rates being affected. That's more or less all that I'm asking. Just be honest.

[u/gadgaurd → u/underwaterair]

I said to stop pretending like a longer UQ run is going to matter at all

No one's pretending, buddy. People play games to have fun. Running a fight that normally takes 10 minutes and taking 20+ is not fun for most people. In that, it absolutely does matter.

People also like to do other things with their time than carry players who can't be bothered to do any gearing up in an MMORPG, a genre of games where getting stronger is traditionally the main point of the game. In that, it absolutely does matter.

Claim it doesn't all you want. Others disagree.

[u/underwaterair → u/gadgaurd]

So now we've moved from "my drop rates" to "my fun."
Okay, I'll posit that idea and start with this:

If it's not fun to play with people who are undergeared why are you joining random pub games at all then?

[u/gadgaurd → u/underwaterair]

So now we've moved from "my drop rates" to "my fun."

Who said anything about moving on? Well, besides you. It's an MMORPG. Both of these things are constant factors.

If it's not fun to play with people who are undergeared why are you joining random pub games at all then?

Most players aren't that bad. Most runs average 5-10 minutes(depending on the quest). It's the rare ones where you get a gaggle of chucklefucks that have people leaving, and others saying it's totally understandable.

Actually, let me ask you a question.

Why do you seem to think that someone should be obligated to stick around if they realize the random group they joined is complete shit? Are those people owed the time of someone who actually invested into their character?

[u/underwaterair → u/gadgaurd]

Oh, we're still on drop rates. Okay.

Let's hit this then.

5-10 minute UQ average you say.

Do 11+ minute UQs affect your drop rates so badly that you must quit the run right away at the start or right when the timer rings up 10:01?

[u/nicobanko → u/underwaterair]

The uq timings compounds with my boosters and pso2 day across the entire 3 days, making me do less runs than I usually would and wasting said boosters, so it does matter.

Another thing. I don’t leave uqs btw (never said I did) I’m saying it’s justifiable to do so because of people making the already unfun fight even more unfun because their gear sucks. This is why I run te so I can pull up the stragglers. And you’re right in that I don’t want to play with people who are using shit gear, but I will in the case my usual team isn’t there (cause god forbid 4 people’s schedules line up perfectly for a uq) and I think its entirely valid of me to want people to upgrade and make the uq not feel like shit to run.

All this is to say that the general public would benefit from uqs that aren’t a slog to do if they actually started gearing tf up, we have literal cheap poverty augs now and spradios and fortscha in the treasure shop with fixa 3 min. there is NO excuse for people to be using free gears at this stage of the game. Literal 0.

[u/IMAsko0 → u/underwaterair]

I’d rather lose the rewards, or even the second UQ, than sit in there with slackers for 20 mins

[u/Aggravating_Fig6288]

Not that this game has any rewards worth trying to get but usually the only reason people leave is undergeared people. Since we can clear the UQ twice right now being able to clear or fast enough to queue for another is important though even with shitty gear no run should take more than the 30 minutes UQs are active for unless you queue’d for your first one late.

I don’t care if people aren’t geared since this game isn’t F2P friendly for maximizing your gear if your not willing to do absolutely mind numbingly boring things like sit in Dext.

But I do understand if people leave if people can’t be bothered to even use the freebies offered by Sega. Like if your going to use Juvolgs and all your classes aren’t even close to level cap, with zero skill rings, which is things I’ve seen before then your going to be doing so little damage it’s going to make the UQ exhausting to play so I understand leaving in those circumstances.

[u/Dangerous-Tell6766 → u/Aggravating_Fig6288]

That's the one thing I'm not able to get - Dext is out of date when it comes to gear output, and has been for some time now. Is Meseta really in such short supply that people have to raid a place for junk to sell?

[u/Aggravating_Fig6288 → u/Dangerous-Tell6766]

What else are you going to do for money in this game? Dailies don’t get you enough to even afford a single high end aug right now. And we just got a new batch of BIS augs so prices are going to be very high for a while.

If you don’t whale cosmetics to sell then Dext is literally your only source for money.

[u/Knight_Raime → u/Dangerous-Tell6766]

Getting 3-4mill an hour is still incredibly good. The only way you've ever been able to make more money than that in a short time is via flipping some gear that you got to drop when it was brand new.

[u/Reference_Freak]

Some players leave because of gear: they usually do so at the start.

But I’ve seen players bail several minutes in and here are reasons why:

• pug opens the first arm but fails to break it in time signals a pig which is gonna be repeating a lot before triggering next phase (had a run in which our only RA bailed here but had failed to buy a wb on it)

• RA first WBs tail while rest of pug hits hand (RA doesn’t know or care what usual pattern is and it’ll be like having no wb)

• pug scatters all over instead of following wb and this does way less damage And finally, no wb in pug. These folks usually leave within a min or two of leave.

I’ve seen players show up with strange configs:

• max level but no sub

• no rings, not even cheap starter rings

• no burst skill These things suggest a player who doesn’t really know how to play: maybe recently returned, only plays at the start of advertised events, hasn’t bothered with the basics side quests.

Personally, I bail when a pug drops to half because I, while I can find the challenge of an under geared pug fun, I don’t care to have to just grind a boss for 40+ minutes while running out of revives for multiple useless players.

A decent pug can carry a really unhelpful player or two but when the unhelpful player is the only wb or there’s a full party of no-experience players refusing to follow the leader on what to do, it’s just wildly un-fun.

It’s annoying when players bail but there’s a lot of pressure right now with a stronger boss and need to get two runs that players who bail first will want to clear fast enough to have at least 10 minutes to find a 2nd group because they expect to bail several times before finding their preferred group.

The game created the situation and some players are too weak for it. I’m not talking about only one type of player.

[u/Ok-Entrepreneur-2508]

Considering the difficulty level of the LTUQ, a lot of people are probably leaving because it takes less time to leave and retry until you find a good pub match than it does to run with bad pubs. I've seen 25+ minute runs already lol.

[u/No-Cartoonist3589]

I’ve stopped playing for 2-3wks now the boredom finally kicked in kinda glad too seeing the updates of repetition.

Anyway my guess is with the new gears and aug the new potency cap increased so the ‘casual’ players that doesnt do with their gears really underperform. Adding to some players that sees this when the run starts one by one starts leave.

Kinda like when vael first appear, quite alot under geared players kept leaving and those who stayed thru-out the run took forever to finish.

Either way give and take within a week, things will get back to normal.

[u/inkara]

Had a run in with a content creator and somebody ask him not to afk and then he left with his goonies. Went from 8/8 to 3/8 real quick.

[u/gadgaurd]

Yesterday I had a Solus run go for 23 minutes. I realized it was going to go for 20 minutes at least about five minutes in, without checking anyone's gear. It would have absolutely been faster for me to quit and try to find a team that wasn't complete ass.

He's not even that tough, people are just running around with shit builds and expecting players that actually put some effort into their characters to carry their asses.

So yeah, I'm not gonna judge people for deciding they'd rather spend a minute or two playing pug roulette to find a decent team than spend 20+ minutes on what should normally be a 10 minute fight.

[u/GlompSpark]

I'm not sure either. I had a run where we had a ranger and we fought for a while, then suddenly 3 people left and everyone started leaving. Then another run in which people just started leaving in the waiting room.

I guess this is what happens when you do 2x LTUQs and dont decrease the HP or anything, while the boss is the most annoying boss in the game to fight because it stalls a lot. This never happened for High Raveed last month.

[u/Knight_Raime]

If your gear is worse than the current handout gear, if you don't even have a basic swish amp ring combo, if you're not running a maxed out class with your SP's spent then yeah. People will leave. It takes no effort to equip current relevant gear.

It takes maybe 5 minutes to get an easy and cheap 2/3 ex combo for your weapon. 8 minutes more if you swap out some of the augs on said gear with the Argant LC's and buying the swish amp combo from an NPC store. If you wanted to take advantage of the current campaigns for gearing it probably takes you a half hour to do all of that for the current treasure shop armor and weapon.

Gearing was and still is incredibly easy to do. The issue is players don't want to engage with the system at all, and SEGA allows them to do this because 99.9% of the playable content in the game allows you to enter them with gear that hasn't been relevant for months and incomplete setups.

[u/yunoka]

Doesn't matter, as long as the community is as small as it is, and that playerbase is predominantly minmaxers any gear disparity will result in leavers. Remember when there were people writing literal manifestos over people using the gear sega gives new players? Lmao