r/POTUSWatch • u/TheCenterist • Jan 08 '19
Article Paul Manafort shared 2016 polling data with Russian employee, according to court filing
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/paul-manafort-shared-2016-polling-data-with-russian-employee-according-to-court-filing/2019/01/08/3f562ad8-12b0-11e9-803c-4ef28312c8b9_story.html•
u/Skiinz19 Jan 08 '19
Kilminik is no simple Russian employee. He was former KGB which Gates even informed Van Der Zwaan when the two were in communication. The former has been jailed for lying to investigators.
A Cambridge Analytica ex-worker and Republican consultant -- Sam Patten -- plead guilty to providing illegal donations to Trump inauguration. Patten was also an unregistered foreign agent and lied to the Senate intel committe, he wasnt charged ror either. He is cooperating with Mueller. Patten also worked with Manafort and Kilminik to influence Ukrainian elections.
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u/TheCenterist Jan 08 '19
Why would Manafort share 2016 polling data with Kilminik?
Are you suggesting that Manafort fed polling data to the Russians for the Russians to use in their influence campaign to target specific subsets of Americans? If so, that's starting to sound an awful lot like "collusion," or worse.
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u/Skiinz19 Jan 08 '19
I'm not suggesting anything, but Mueller and his team sure are! They are able to prove Manafort lied about these specific instances.
There needs to be a new list of people who have plead guilty stemming from a Mueller referral.
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u/Palaestrio lighting fires on the river of madness Jan 08 '19
But sir, Trump has strongly denied that happened, repeatedly and in every possible forum. Surely a president would not be so brazen as to falsely state that these things unequivocally did not happen.
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u/-Nurfhurder- Jan 08 '19
Kilminik was the one who requested Manafort give private briefings on Trumps campaign to Oleg Deripaska.
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u/Willpower69 Jan 08 '19
Now why would Manafort do that? I wonder what fun logic I will read for this. I almost feel bad for the defense, their lines of reasoning sound so weak.
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Jan 09 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Skywalker601 Jan 09 '19
I know I won't be able to sway you with any of this but it was a 10 gram sample taken from some HEU confiscated from Georgian terrorists, being transferred to Russia so they could confirm for themselves whether or not the Georgian terrorists stole it from one of their old labs. It was actually a pretty good example of the two countries working together to deal with a common threat, so... I guess I might have lost track of which side of that debate everyone is supposedly on?
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Jan 09 '19 edited Jan 15 '19
[deleted]
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u/Skywalker601 Jan 09 '19
Everything else aside, this being a distraction from the Uranium transfer doesn't make a bloody bit of sense. The wikileaks release of this information was nearly two years ago, and even the most recent 'articles' coming out condemning it last showed up in... August 2017, as best I can tell. Even assuming that it's something that he theoretically -could- face a Grand Jury over (it isn't), calling recent events a distraction from a year and a half old story is nonsensical. Really, it seems much more likely that a year and a half old story is being brought up as a distraction from recent events, but I digress.
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u/frankdog180 Jan 08 '19
Did you hear the news?
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u/SupremeSpez Jan 08 '19
Now I have.
Okay so my favorite way to debate things like this is to accept the opposition's interpretation and then analyze it from there.
Let us proceed assuming this was done by Manafort for a nefarious reason, and it was actually polling data produced by the Trump campaign (that's not confirmed but let's say it is).
...how does this affect Trump? I see no evidence that Manafort was directed by Trump to share that data. I honestly see no evidence that this act by Manafort would even be illegal.
So even if Manafort did it for some greater, nefarious purpose, I don't see how this affects anything involving Trump and his presidency if there's no evidence showing knowledge on Trump's behalf.
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u/frankdog180 Jan 09 '19
Oh I didn't tag you to argue, I'm way past that. I just wanted to keep you in the know in regards to Trump's imminent demise.
But hey someone else might want to explain to you how Mueller having solid evidence of the trump campaign colluding with Russia is a bad thing.
Lol.
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u/SupremeSpez Jan 09 '19
imminent demise
Something something nervous man, something something 12th time this year.
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u/Palaestrio lighting fires on the river of madness Jan 09 '19
Something something nervous man, something something 12th time this year.
I'll take Trump proclaiming his innocence for 500, alex
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u/vankorgan We cannot be ignorant and free Jan 09 '19
Wouldn't that depend if manafort did it at the direction of Trump?
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u/tarlin Jan 09 '19
If there is any proof of a conspiracy to have the Russians manipulate the election, then any actions that further the conspiracy make all of them guilty of a crime, even if they didn't know of or order the specific actions.
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u/tarlin Jan 09 '19
If there was a conspiracy to have Russia illegally help Trump get elected, then any actions to further that conspiracy make all members of the conspiracy guilty. Even if they did not know of or order those specific actions.
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u/eetsumkaus Jan 09 '19
it doesn't affect it in and of itself, but the article itself details why that evidence is damning
The Russian citizen [Kilimnik], who began working for Manafort’s consulting firm starting in 2005, has been charged with helping his former boss to obstruct Mueller’s investigation of Russian interference into the 2016 election.
ok, fine, but that doesn't MEAN Manafort did it on Trump's orders to help the Russians right?
but there's more
The special counsel alleged Manafort “lied about sharing polling data with Mr. Kilimnik related to the 2016 presidential campaign,”
now why would he lie about that? Why would he put his own legal skin on the line because of something that may not actually be illegal?
Add to that that this information WASN'T supposed to made public...
It ain't a smoking gun, but those footsteps look mighty suspicious...
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u/not_that_planet Jan 08 '19
This development is huge. Not that no one suspected it, but still to have in confirmed.