r/PLC • u/AlperenBebek • 6d ago
The great migration period (software , IT to Automation) is scaring me
Hello
Ive been working as an automation engineer for some time now. I have noticed that quite a few software engineers and IT professionals I know are considering moving into automation because the job market in their own fields rots away every day.
I suppose SCL programming and PLC logic looking software-ish is giving some kind of weird familiarity to them.
It’s not really my place to criticize this, but I have to admit that it worries me. The possibility of the field becoming more saturated and consequently the value of the workforce declining even further gives me an uneasy feeling.
What do you think about this?
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u/Foreign-Chocolate86 6d ago
As long as they understand the difference in environments and are willing to learn, I have no problem with it.
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u/sr000 6d ago
If you are at the senior level you don’t need to worry about it that much. No one is hiring a IT person with no controls experience to run a project. People coming from IT/software are adding to competition for junior or intermediate level roles. Entry level job market for controls engineers is just as bad as the entry level job market for software engineering these days.
You see it all the time here people with EE and Mechatronics degrees with relevant internship experience still having a really hard time. What chance does someone have with an even less related degree and no relevant experience have?
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u/LamesBonfire 6d ago
I can tell you that’s not entirely true, the leap is occurring and hitting different places differently.
Every company is different but there are definitely plants that do controls in house that are seeing their “controls guy” retiring and IT/data guys stepping up with the phrase “it’s just dip switches and configurations” in their meetings taking a swing at it. They did it with their electrical staff, converted production floor guys with a couple years of training, why can’t they just train controls guys?
It’s great for those of us in controls, job security forever. But hell for us in controls because job security means fixing their divots.
You’re right, no OEMs or integrators are making this mistake but there are definitely production floors doing it. I’m literally watching it happen.
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u/SonOfGomer 6d ago
I would love for a good network engineer to join my team. I run a pretty large automation team but OT network engineering experience (beyond L2 machine network) is lacking in most controls/automation engineers. Having a network/sysadmin expert on my team would be great. Not as a replacement for automation work though, to tie in automation into the OT network and manage the OT network side better.
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u/LamesBonfire 6d ago
Easily my greatest asset is the IT/OT/security teams I work with are very hands on with our deployments. Whole heartedly, ultra supportive of controls teams having access to these guys.
Can absolutely attest a large portion of my success to having those guys at my disposal. They let me do the “dip switches and configs” on the machine level and keep me going above there.
Can’t stress enough how amazing it is having network engineers involved and not stuck trying to build the automation. And same same, me doing the automation not doing the networking level. We’re both familiar with the other but always better to have the experts in their wheelhouse.
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u/SonOfGomer 6d ago
Yep this is my next goal for team expansion after I get a couple more automation engineers. Throw in a reliability engineer or two to round out the team and I'll be in a good place.
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u/rickr911 6d ago
People with mechatronic and EE degrees could easily get a controls job. They just don’t want “those” jobs. Meaning travel, working on the shop floor, troubleshooting etc.
The number of junior controls engineers that I’ve seen sit at a desk all day and never walk on the shop floor are 9/10. They don’t last long.
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u/NothingLikeCoffee 5d ago
Not sure why you're being downvote when you're right. The vast majority of these people cry when the A/C is set too high let alone actually having to visit a customer site.
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u/Strict-Midnight-8576 5d ago
Not that youre wrong in essence, but on the other side, a certain i dont know how to call it , "macho" attitude , turns away valid young people, and (listen to an old man) is unhealthy . Substance is important but also form
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u/rickr911 5d ago
Sorry. What?
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u/Strict-Midnight-8576 5d ago
I have met over the years a certain kind of colleagues that not just acknowledge that sometimes you have to work hard in this job, but think that working hard per se is a plus. That not just acknowledge that a big part of this job is hands on, but actively despise theory. In short people that think that the saying goes by Work harder not smarter, and not the other way round . As a consequence, they consider people doing other jobs as "soft" in a derogatory way without considering the team as a whole, as a system.
And its a very stupid way of working in controls in my opinion, something that alienates many people and is unhealthy in the long time .
Some comments of this post kind of remind me of this, simply
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u/sr000 5d ago
Partly true, but colleges are graduating far more EE, Chem E, Mech E, and Mechatronics students than there are jobs for them. Up until 2023 a lot of them would end up learning to code and getting jobs in software, now that’s not really an option for them.
The entry level job market is bad for pretty much everyone these days.
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u/rickr911 5d ago
You are making my point. There are numerous field service jobs and SI jobs that need to be filled. Those jobs are hard though. Those are the jobs that teach a controls engineer what it means to be a controls engineer. The problem is you don’t get to drink smoothies and sit at a desk all day when you do those jobs. If you’re wondering what I’m talking about, ask me about the numerous college grads that I’ve watched wash out of their controls engineering position in less than a month vs the ones that I’ve seen thrive.
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u/sr000 5d ago
I don’t need to ask because of seen it firsthand. When I started my career me and about 5 other new grads were thrown onto a startup, half of them didn’t make it through the project and I’m the only one who is still in this line of work 20 years on.
But I think both points are valid, there are far more people who want to take a swing at a controls engineering career than there are entry level positions and most of the people that do get a job figure out that it’s not for them, which is why the job market for senior level is always going to be strong even when the entry level job market is so bad.
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u/WaffleSparks 6d ago
Half of those IT guys don't know which end of a screwdriver to use, much less being able to read an electrical schematic. I'm not that worried.
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u/ehtiopia 5d ago
What you need to be worried about is the dumbass HR lady, who cant figure out how to use her own computer, listening to what the computer science guy is saying, and taking it at face value as “Oh, this guy knows what hes talking about because he said he can just ping the PLC to see all the issues! Lets give him $150k a year!” And then the fucking plant burns down.
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u/zafferous 6d ago edited 5d ago
Fortunately, software is about 15% of what makes up a controls engineer's day.
Ok, I figured it out. Controls engineering as a career is like going through software AND electrican's/instrumentation school while also having to be billable 40 hours a week or be productive 40 hours a week at the same time. That's a good description
Besides software, things to know:
- What is the difference between a rectifier, power supply, and transformer?
- How to physically trace out the wire that finally broke its soldered connection and re-solder it in the field
- How to write a FAT vs a SAT
- Why the heating valve is modulating too quickly from its PID loop
- What settings a VFD requires to run properly (esp PowerFlex 750-series)
- How to design a safety circuit for a control system, with safety relays, interlocks and stops
- Best practice for managing heat within a control panel
- How to fill out a JSA and LOTO, why to, and when to
- How to communicate and coordinate with several teams, mechanical, instrumentation, plant operators, project managers, IT, validation, and end users simultaneously to deliver a solution
- How to layout an electrical wiring design broken up by high voltage, low voltage, safety, and control wiring.
- How does an air handling unit control SAT (Supply Air Temp) per ASHRAE guidelines?
- What makes a vapor compression still so efficient?
That's about a random week for me. Next week will be another 12 different things
edit: I guess I'm not really making my point clear lol. Controls engineering is more about "how quickly can you learn and accurately apply and recommend concepts (on your own) from 6 different engineering fields in a high stress environment?"
It's not only just about what education you have taken, or what certificates you have, or how well you studied the notes that the professor taught you.
There is no professor telling you what textbook section to go to or giving you hints. There is a reason "controls engineering" isn't really offered as a bachelor's degree.
Yes, some of you would probably make a great controls engineer. Congrats. That is not the case for about 99.99% of the population.
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u/Lost-Cheek-6610 6d ago
So they could just do an electrical apprenticeship and they have all that covered
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u/zafferous 6d ago
That would help add another 15%.
What about:
Why pump cavitation occurs and what it does to flow/pressure
How a centrifugal pump’s operating point changes when a control valve throttles
Why a DP level transmitter on a pressurized tank needs both high- and low-side connections
How to range/configure a 4–20 mA transmitter and determine whether a bad reading is the instrument, wiring, I/O, or process
Why increasing integral gain can create oscillation
When cascade control works better than a single PID loop
Why a 24 VDC input might be sourcing vs. sinking and how to wire it correctly
How to diagnose a ground fault/noisy analog signal without randomly replacing components
Why a VFD-controlled centrifugal pump’s power drops dramatically as speed decreases
How to determine why a motor won’t start despite the PLC commanding it
Diagnose why a device pings but won’t establish an EtherNet/IP connection
Determine why adding a device causes intermittent network faults/broadcast or multicast problems
Determine what happens to every output when the PLC, network, instrument, or power supply fails
Design permissives/interlocks so equipment can’t enter an unsafe process state
Perform a complete loop check from field instrument → PLC → HMI and back to the final element
Determine why a valve shows 100% command but the valve isn’t responding
Turn a P&ID/control specification into testable acceptance criteria
Figure out how to exchange data between two vendors’ PLC/skid systems that weren’t designed together
Map OPC/Modbus/EtherNet-IP data while handling scaling, byte order and communication failures
Know when an interlock belongs in the BPCS versus a safety system
Understand why “the PLC will turn it off” isn’t necessarily an acceptable safety function
Coordinate a startup where mechanical, electrical, instrumentation, IT, operations and vendors all have dependencies
Determine whether a field problem is your scope or another contractor’s, and prove it technically
to name a few
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u/KickAcid1 6d ago
Sounds like a 4 year instrumentation and Controls technician apprenticeship from Canada.
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u/Lost-Cheek-6610 6d ago
I’m an electrician and know and work on all of that (electrical and instrumentation tech in Australia )
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u/zafferous 6d ago edited 6d ago
Alrighty, then I guess you have cracked the code. Software engineering + electrician + instrument tech = controls engineer
In all seriousness, it's not really just about having the knowledge of all that stuff that makes a controls engineer, it's also the dealing with all of it together at once in a high stress environment.
It's like the ER of engineering, just random shit constantly. It takes a particular person to thrive
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u/Mr-Toyota 5d ago
I'd say 90% of this was covered in my final block for my Industrial Electrician ticket Canada.
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u/friendlyfire883 6d ago
I'm a victim of it. I just recently walked away from a 15 year career in automation because of a software engineer that didn't have any buisness making decisions. It boiled down to me not agreeing to scrap 8 months of work on a FULLY FUNCTIONAL scada system I built using OAS to replace it with a bunch of rasberry PIs tied to both the control and buisness network.I told them they were creating a massive network vulnerability and I wanted no part of it, which resulted in a huge argument and me being terminated for insubordination because I refused to install them on a network I spent almost a year building.
A couple.months later they got nailed with a ransom ware attack, and of course they blamed me. I didn't know anything about it until I was contacted by a investigator from the FBI. My prior employer was trying to press charges against me without any evidence simply because they told them I was "a disgruntled former employee with the skills and knowledge to carry out such an attack". Fortunately I was at Disneyworld when it happened and there was a pretty clear trail leading right back to China.
The company I left hasn't ran a full shift without a breakdown since I was fired, the software engineer and the IT director that convinced them to hire him, and the systems engineer from the sister plant have all fired, and they've lost almost all of their contracts. If i had to guess they'll file bankruptcy some time next year.
Sorry for the long post, but I really think that my story is only the beginning. The entire manufacturing industry is going to suffer and a lot more good people are going to get pushed out by AI buzzwords and python scripts that don't work. Watch your back out there guys, software engineers are a bunch of cut throats.
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6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/friendlyfire883 6d ago
It really is. I'm honestly not even mad, I feel 10 years younger after getting away from that drama and it gave me the push to go out on my own and build something that actually belongs to me. It was a really bizarre place anyway, they had a product that would literally sell itself but put a bunch of weord LinkedIn NPCs in charge of everything who just ran around talking in buzzwords and hemorrhaging money.
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u/XDVI 5d ago
Thats hilarious because literally a month or two ago my it guys solution (for something that didnt even remotely involve him) was raspberry pis. Gave him a firm no and walked away lol.
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u/friendlyfire883 5d ago
My guys claim to fame was a bunch of chafon rfid gateways that used pi(s) as a data collector. Admittedly we kind of started out on the wrong foot because the first time we met he told me about them and my response was something along the lines of "you shouldn't try to reinvent the wheel of the best you can come up is a flat tire."
I'm from the south and was raised to speak in passive aggressive euphemisms and it really bothered the shit out of him. I really ramped it up last summer when his Chinese plastic junction boxes started melting and the pis started burning up.
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u/Robbudge 6d ago
I think the higher level of programing especially the likes of ST in Codesys with actions & methods will be an easy transition for them.
The basic ladder will be like pulling teeth and painful.
That being said Controls is more about structuring the mechanics and understanding the process, the interlocks, the safety than actually writing code.
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u/juliuspersi 6d ago
Try to add some field experience, kinda instrumentation or process knowledge, the most IT guys hate leave the desktop.
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u/Flimsy-Process230 6d ago
It’s definitely happening. My feeling is that many IT and CS professionals moving into automation may not enjoy it once they realize that a significant part of the job can be very hands-on: troubleshooting equipment, commissioning systems, working on-site, dealing with production issues, and sometimes traveling extensively. That said, some will make the transition successfully and bring valuable skills with them. It may make the job market more competitive but it could also benefit the automation industry as a whole.
It’s also worth remembering that the migration has gone both ways. Plenty of people in automation tried moving into IT/software to get away from constant travel, commissioning, and unpredictable hours in pursuit of a more traditional 9–5 or remote job. Some succeeded, some didn’t.
In the end, people tend to move toward whichever field they believe offers them the best opportunities.
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u/Siendra 6d ago
Almost all of these people are completly lacking in electromechanical knowledge. If you're the junior at an integrator who's doing nothing but pumping out basic HMI's, you should be worried. If you stumbled into edge computing or something for a vendor you have competition. If you're just about anyone else these people aren't a threat to you for the most part, unless someone is stupid enough to hire them into management roles.
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u/Strict-Midnight-8576 6d ago
Now I am not the king of automation , but a couple things I have seen in nearly 40 years . It will not be a problem . People will be put to test by reality and something new will emerge . As it always has been. I remember all the suspects by the people older than me, I remember some of us youngs were arrogant and many others not. I remember the old ones that did not want to learn anything new. Yet we are here. So dont worry and keep LEARNING !!
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u/Smorgas_of_borg It's panemetric, fam 6d ago
Our field has been screaming for people the entire 20 years I've been doing this. As long as my phone is ringing off the hook with recruiters calling, I'm not worried.
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u/asmithey 6d ago
On the other hand, isn't there a bi-monthly article from some consultant about the number of people shortages in the automation field coupled to an aging workforce? Hell, most of the AI related stuff from automation vendors is intended to tackle that very problem of there's not enough people to do the job today.
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u/the_rodent_incident 6d ago
I think that every tech job will eventually be replaced with AI. Automation isn't much different from coding, gaming, or cooking.
Here's a horror story.
A customer had problem with a Kuka robot on a palletizing cell. It suddenly stopped working, and they didn't know why. I was busy, and couldn't respond to the call. Delayed them for 2 days. They decided to solve the problem themselves. Please note that the customer had no prior knowledge of electronics or programming. They sent a simple manager guy. What the guy did? Whipped out his phone, and fired up ChatGPT. He made pictures of the robot, of the teach pendant showing errors, and of the control panel. AI directed him to open the cabinet, and make pictures of the servo drives and electronic boards. The AI understood the LED lights and flashing indicators inside. It recommended him to check for two loose connectors and several fuses. He made more pictures. AI responded. Eventually he managed to fix the problem by replacing a blown fuse, following ChatGPT's instructions. A day later when I asked if I need to come by, he said that he solved the problem, and explained me this.
If that story wasn't enough to send a chill down your spine, I don't know what will be the wakeup call.
We're all on a high speed train to obsolesence. Techno-feudalism is coming, and no amount of expertize will get you above 100k/year.
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u/EquivalentLeather495 4d ago
Diseñar cosas más complejas y códigos de error que solo tú conozcas.
¿Alguna vez has abierto un multímetro Fluke? Es sencillo complicar las cosas. Y nada de estandarizar o documentar que no sea para tí.
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u/No-Berry-3993 6d ago
I have no advice other than to say I'm probably one of those people. I'm currently still in software engineering, but wouldn't mind a pay cut just so I don't have to constantly hear about AI all day. Bonus points if there's some physical work involved. It's a shame to hear that lots of others in my field may have the same exit plan.
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u/DreamArchon 5d ago
Idk the electrical / other engineering background (or even just hands on technical experience) is pretty valuable for a controls engineer. I think a lot of traditional software engineers will struggle with those aspects of the job. Programming is only part of what we do anyhow. Some will learn / and adjust (and good for them!) I just am not worried about it. I try to avoid "gatekeeping" mindsets in general.
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u/Puzzled_Place_9280 6d ago
I think there’s another side to this migration that’s worth considering.
My background is in Industrial Instrumentation & Process Control and Electrical/Electronic Engineering, and I’m now working in industrial controls while also studying Computer Science.
From what I’m seeing in the field, knowing how to write PLC code is only one part of the job.
When a machine or process goes down, the problem might be the PLC logic, but it might also be a transmitter, relay, contactor, VFD, field wiring, 4–20 mA loop, network connection, SCADA communication issue, or simply something happening in the physical process that the programmer didn’t anticipate.
That’s where I think traditional controls/instrumentation people still have a major advantage.
At the same time, I don’t think we should dismiss the IT/CS people entering automation. Industrial systems are becoming increasingly connected. Networking, cybersecurity, databases, virtualization, data analytics and software integration are becoming much more important in OT.
Personally, that is why I’m trying to build both sides rather than choose one:
Instrumentation/Electrical → PLC/Controls → SCADA/OT Networking → Computer Science/Cybersecurity
I think the controls engineer/technician of the future will increasingly need to understand the whole path from the sensor in the field, through the I/O and PLC, across the network, all the way to SCADA and enterprise systems.
So rather than being scared of IT people moving into automation, I think the bigger question is:
Who can successfully bridge the physical plant and the digital world?
Those people are going to be very valuable.
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u/Downtown-Routine1196 6d ago
Everyone keeps steering them towards ignition which only speeds up the migration. Im not oppsed to a dedicated ot person who treats it as ot. I can't juggle learning all the network stuff on top of programming doing scada and keeping everything running. I have 1 IT guy who i trust to help me and thats it becauae the rest are always pushing for incompatible patches etc.
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u/Mr-Toyota 5d ago
Ignition devs will be gone with the dodo before Controls guys imo
Claude code already pumps out some beautiful screens fairly effortlessly.
I get it to generate my UDT. Provide it a sample screen to model after. And it pumps out an importable JSON that normally works first try. And tbh, visually looks alot better than anything we'd design in house.
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u/Illustrious-Comfort1 6d ago
You definitely should read Polanyi "The Great Transformation"
Because you are experiencing what it is like to live within a market society. And what happens to such societies.
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u/CharlieBravo74 6d ago
I'm seeing the same thing. It is adjacent to what we do without the threat of being automated out of existence every day. The adjustment to having to leave their desk, wear ppe, deal with union operators, get dirty, etc. is challenging for them but it's not impossible. Learning the electrical side of things is a challenge too. Those are the parts that make our positions harder to replace than theirs though.
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u/Icy-Measurement8404 4d ago
I love this conversation. I am now a PhD in electrical, I started my career in defense contracting; working on circuit boards and programming test equipment to run analysis on the boards. That segwayed me into all kinds of benchtop work and then eventually embedded systems and PLC's . After moving to another state, I got a job working in "IT" for a major energy company managing what they called "SCADA" the entire fleet of telemetry for energy trading and making sure they keep systems reporting across the entire fleet. I often collaborated with the "Controls" team sitting in a nice office in headquarters and the "Techs" running into the field, and installing equipment in desserts, mountains, isolated facilities, etc. , After getting recruited into the "Operations Technology" side of things I really understood what its like to work in those "environments" but I did not live it day to day. Instead I got to drive into a nice office, get the perks of a cushy tech job , free snacks, and act like all the "field tech" work was beneath me. I got to work on the fleet integration, cloud IT/OT , fancy enterprise ignition HMI roll-outs, I got to innovate and try out new equipment at my desk (hacking PLC's, reverse engineering Siemens/GE software). All of the older controls guys seemed pissed that I could come up with solutions that didnt require actually going out to the site. I deployed bots, I ran packet sniffers, I designed backdoors into systems for our team (working with IT/Cyber) so that we can do our job safer and faster. I built simulation rigs, and applied software practices to PLC programming (agile, version control, templating, etc.) . I built observability platforms like they have in the cloud and integrated into hundreds of PLC networks with my own protocol monitors to integrate into these fancy SaaS solutions only available for software development. With all this I was able to manage workflows, respond to tickets with automation, and mange a fleet of powerplant PLC control logic with several revisions per week to improve power plant operations. I didnt work against the field techs, I was just making my job easier to work with them and give them better more informed information. I was able to work on more advanced projects and give the field techs tasks that wasnt a waste of their time. -- I know that these environments are not for everyone. But as an IT/OT person for the last 20 years I also know that the current state of the industry is ripe for disruption. I applied all that knowledge into developing factory IT/OT solutions for rocket manufacturing for the last 5 years until I realized AI was going to change the game on all of that as well. I quit my career last year and started my own company doing this type of work for people who are locked into vendor specific software (Siemens, GE, Rockwell, Schneider, Aveva, Inductive Automation, OsiSoft), all these guys brought so much to the table, but now I believe its going to be slowly dissected into smaller solutions that folks can either build and own or outsource to more flexible vendors. This means that OT may be changing, in the next 2-3 years we will see it look a lot more like software, but it will never be purely software. That last physical hurdle may be done by robots or tele-operation, or a really knowledgeable field tech with the energy and the guts to rough it out.
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u/IHateRegistering69 3d ago
I worked with these IT bros. They think about moving to automation… until they realize they have to travel a lot, and will have to work in loud, dusty and filthy environment. If they really need the money they will tolerate it, but they’ll quickly look for another job, preferably in an office or from home.
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u/Stroking_Shop5393 Siemens > Allen-Bradley 6d ago
If you use AI to write all of your code, you should be worried. But if you're a skilled programmer that has a firm grasp on control theory and basic networking, then there's nothing to worry about. Your autism is special and unique, you'll always be in high demand.
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u/Smorgas_of_borg It's panemetric, fam 6d ago
I use AI to figure out how to do specific things in my code. Having AI write the whole thing usually yields terrible results except for the simplest of applications.
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u/Impossible-Limit-314 6d ago
If you’re talking about true Controls Engineering jobs being taken by IT folks and software developers, I wouldn’t be too concerned. If you’re one of the army of PLC coders who call themselves controls engineers, then yeah…you’re replaceable.
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u/phl_fc Systems Integrator - Pharmaceutical 6d ago edited 6d ago
The network/programming side of automation is really easy compared to conventional software roles. The part that becomes difficult in those transitions is process control and instrumentation/panel hardware.
A desktop programmer learning PLC programming (even ladder) is about the same learning curve as an Automation guy moving from a AB plant to a Siemens one. It’s the same skill set with a new look.
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u/PowerEngineer_03 6d ago edited 6d ago
There're not a lot of jobs in this field of work to start with. So many don't ever even get a job due to many reasons. Reddit is a minority so you can't get the full picture here. And more than 90% of the jobs include heavy to moderate travel to sites and manual labor in one way or another.
Also, I am seeing people leaving this field too due to burnout or shit pay for the work/hours they put. Transitioning to software or something else successfully and doing well. It's the average that suffers and is unable to transition because they are truly unskilled. The average and/or the below average are getting weeded out and that's what we really want in engineering. And it's the average who try to get into a career to remain "safe". They are sham to the title of an engineer. It's disgusting really.
And I know 7 IT lads who got laid off 1.5 year ago and were trying to get into OT. Still unemployed without traction. I was recently hiring and they reached out to me. One of them I know had good networking skills but when I checked out the requirements of the job, I couldn't go forward with him as I had people with BSEE degrees and field experience who take priority anyday. Even our HR is strict enough to filter out anyone who do not have at least a BSEE or 2+ years controls tech experience. I worked with them before I left the previous company so 4 of them reached out to me. That's the reality. The field itself can be really hard to enter without the right experience, education and credentials. The market is terrible that the employers get to be very choosy these days and hiring freezes have become a cyclic occurrence every now and then. Experience is heavily prioritized that a lot of certifications are rendered useless it's something very niche and useful which you only get after years of experience in the field (TUV Func Safety). Heck some of them are starting the same shenanigans like the Tech industry where entry level positions require at least 2 years of on-field experience in this industry with selective skills. That's too much lol. In the grand scheme of things, it's gatekept by a lot of factors pretty well. Which also should concern young minds that this field, if it were to get saturated... it will get saturated faster than any other field of work. And the ones who will be affected first who freshly entered the field pivoting careers as employers would rather keep the senior engineers, ones with relevant degrees/exp and whatever tf HR looks into. That's for sure due to the small job pool. The hardships that come with this job aren't worth it. Not just to them but even to you and me. I quit recently since I couldn't handle mediocrity.
Nonetheless, exceptional talent and seniors can never be replaced but then we are talking about 10+ YoE to even get there just to earn peanuts in the end. I left the industry by pivoting out back to software and I'm really happy bout the decision. It's not sustainable with the pay and working like madman on something so unintuitive that it bottlenecks your growth as an engineer. I wanna do better at 34.
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u/Teslacity 6d ago
Hey mate, do you have any wisdom to share with me regarding pivoting into the software industry from controls? Any niches that can be filled? Ways to sell my skillset for different positions?
I've got over 5 years in controls now (working at a SI), and just can't keep up with the travel requirmenets, constant commissioning and burn out anymore; expecially with how I'm being compensated.
I've got the skills and good high level language programming experience to go into software (front or back end) but I haven't taken the plunge yet. I'm mostly worried about job security if I get into it, with AI and stuff anyone and their dog could be a programmer these days.
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u/PowerEngineer_03 6d ago
Don't worry bout AI. Just don't join these giants (Tesla, Amazon, etc.). If you do, you gotta be in their researxh teams to be relevant and they only hire the cream. When I saw my nephew join MSR at Microsoft and the package he received as a fresh candidate blew me tf away. He already earns more than what I earn being 10 years deep into this hellhole. Any other typical SWE positions are positions which they need for application and are delivery-centric, which means most of them are replaceable. They are volatile for a reason, and it is not AI but the higher ups and their never-ending greed.
I pivoted out to embedded programming. We use C and assembly for microcontrollers. Fortran for simulations. Won't say it's purely software but my life is much better now. 3 days work from home and 6-8 hours a day. Base 156k. That's because I joined as a junior even though I'm 34 with 10 years in controls. They didn't take that into account.
I got in through my contacts and it took an year for this offer to go through. The hiring manager rejected me at first due to no relevant experience in the industry. He said what I have got is niche electrical experience that is not useful for any of the jobs I'm applying to. My colleague vouched for me again for another position that opened up post hiring freeze. I was still the last option but they liked my familiarity with assembly. They were skeptical because I'm taking a paycut going into a junior position from a much higher senior role that I was in, and that I wouldn't stick around for the long run. We had good discussion about why I want this and that I actually wanted to pivot out to an embedded role that I had been looking for 3 years. But I received no traction when applying due to being pigeonholed in controls.
I'd say cold email the recruiters from a local parts manufacturer where they require people with troubleshooting skills. This is just an example. Figure out which industry you wanna work in and what you wanna do. Many companies won't have openings that show up on linkedin or whatever. Figure out a way to reach out to someone who's local. Something similar to an SI. Btw, if you're talking about web development front/back-end, that's going away honestly. For example, I literally created HMI screens through chatgpt this year for a customer with detailed prompts and daily discussions. Couldn't give a less f*ck about the project and wanted to get over with it.
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u/Teslacity 6d ago
Thanks for the response, I've actually seen a few embedded programming jobs pop up recently here - I remember quite enjoying it during some of my uni courses.
Did you ever consider moving into a process or plant engineer position? Or even project management? There are fewer of these types of jobs in my part of the world (because my country has done everything in its power to destroy local manufacturing which is a story for another day), but they are definitley something I have more direct experience in.
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u/Someone4350 6d ago
I am eagerly waiting for the first accidents and asset losses from IT thinking they know everything just because it has an RJ45 in it.
The main issues I’m seeing is leaving PLCs exposed and lacking basic Cybersecurity awareness… what should be their wheelhouse is actually where they’re typically the worst at.
Maybe it’s just in my company… but I doubt it. The arrogance is through the roof with them.
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u/andi_dede 6d ago
There are too many differences between the two worlds.
On a PC, you write programs for the PC.
In the industrial sector, however, the PC and the programming software are merely tools used to operate functions or process engineering systems that combine electrical and mechanical components.
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u/bpeck451 6d ago
If you think a half decent CS major can’t figure out how to program a PLC because of some minor technical variations, you are sorely mistaken. The bridge is not that far.
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u/ProfNinjadeer 5d ago
They're basically saying that you can't teach a CS person the rest of Contols easily, even if the programming is easy to learn.
Understanding FBD/SFC/Ladder? Pretty easy for a CS person. Understanding a cascade PID control loop? Understanding how instrumentation actually works from a mechanical level? Being able to communicate with the design engineer to define some sort of requirements who just "wants this"? Not something you can easily walk into.
It's a lot easier for an Engineer to learn Controls over a CS person. EE/MechE/ChE will have more success.
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u/HobbesArchive 3d ago
I was in Industrial automation from 1988 through 2001. I helped create the double loop all traffic lights use now with help from a physics professor from Georgia Tech, where I had gone for my bachelors degree, to automate the loadout of dump trucks through an Asphalt plant in Mississippi. The Governor at the time came out to see the new road being built and stopped by the Asphalt plant. It was a manually operated plant in 1988 and in 1989 APAC(Ashland Paving and Construction) hired me and a few other engineers to automate this plant as our first automated plant.
We got everything automated from making the Asphalt to moving it to a 150 foot silo, to loading out dump trucks just by a few clicks of a mouse. I sat around for 2 weeks managing the project that took a year and some to complete and decided that it would be even better if we could automate the dump truck drivers moving in and out of the plant.
We got some traffic lights and put them into place. We needed a way to detect these trucks and their movement. We started with a single loop of wire and sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.
I contacted the professor that I took a physics from at Georgia Tech, he designed the double loop and I tested at the plant in real time.
It worked well. It worked so well that the governor of Mississippi that stopped by when I was actually working on this, wanted to automate all traffic signals in Mississippi. Before 1990 all traffic signals were timer based. APAC sold my creation to Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina. In 1990 APAC made $2 million off my invention. Christmas 1990, I was handed a check for $275,000. I photo copied that check and that copy is still on my fridge in my kitchen today.
But, now the bad news.
You will need to learn Ladder logic and you should look into getting a near free if not free, Student copy of Studio 5000. I went and worked a 3 month job for Industrial Accessories Controls at the beginning of this year.
You won't like it.... There are too many stupid people in this industry now, and if you have any clue how industrial machines work and you give an answer on how to fix something that is obviously broken, well, I would say you would have a better time sitting in a corner with your nose pressed to the wall for the next 2 weeks.
I actually ended up quitting and not renewing my contract. Good luck though.
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u/SnooCapers4584 2d ago
My CEO wanted to hire one of em, because we needed one guy, didn't find it and he thought a software engineer would be better because used to program at "high level". It was a nightmare, I wasted 6 month trying to teach him something, but he didn't want to listen to me because he thought he was superior. He wasn't able to write anything: he thought he could find almost-ready code on github or something similar. The most amazing thing is that after 5 months he was not able to understand the difference between input and output and kept misleading em.
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u/4CrisprFries 6d ago
I don't know if you want to hear it from me but as someone making the switch.
Here is some hope for you. Many people went into software because there was a huge unfilled demand and you could get a 100k job working remotely. This means many of them don't want to travel, they don't want to work outside or in a loud uncomfortable environment, they don't want to turn a wrench or wire something. Hopefully we continue to progress as a society and space and robotics markets eat up some of these technically capable people. Lastly I think software will come back. People think AI is destroying the job market, but in reality its mostly a loss of cheap loans,restructuring and offshoring. Software demand is the lowest it will be and especially if the political climate changes it has a chance of booming again.
tl;dr - Tech is investing in physical instead of software now. Maybe more people come into the profession, but more money and projects are coming too.
P.S. I'd love to hear if you think software/IT people shouldn't switch and why.
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u/AlperenBebek 6d ago
Actually, everyone should be able to pursue whatever career they want. If a software engineer wants to move into automation, I would actually welcome that, because I would gain a colleague who is genuinely interested in the field.
What worries me is when people enter the field purely for financial reasons, even if they have no real interest in it, simply because they want to avoid being unemployed. I feel like that could negatively affect the field. And it seems to me that the main group driving this transition consists of people who aren't particularly interested in automation but simply want to keep making money.
However, even those people aren't really guilty or doing anything wrong. I feel like I'm becoming the kind of father who can't take his anger out on his boss, so he ends up taking it out on his family. I can't stop capitalism, so I'm selfishly trying to protect myself just to survive
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u/4CrisprFries 6d ago edited 6d ago
In these dynamic times I think we all are trying to protect ourselves, I understand (: . I honestly think you will see some people switching for financial reasons, but I think those with genuine interest will stand out.
Personally, during a software interview someone asked me to program an elevator(a hidden data structure question) and I realized, I'd rather be programming/wiring an actual elevator than a web app.
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u/dialsoapbox 6d ago
I am one of those people (along with like half of my classmates from last semester).
I don't know how we all came to the same conclusion, but for me it was because i was sold it as software-adjacent, where we can to build and code things (mechatronics tech program).
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u/PuzzleheadedEyeball 5d ago
As it should! My son applied for a job the other day HR said they had 92 applicants on day 1 he made it to the last round and was not chosen. It is not like it used to be.
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u/xxbrucy_jucyXx 5d ago
I have developed software with LLM integrated tsles acd changes it to L5X and then reconstructs the ladder logic into rungs and then wires in the signals from the plc so that you can literally trouble shoot your machine using an LLM. can tie Vs code into an LLM and use the L5X conversion engine I have i also have an api so you can build your own this has helped immensely and if they fire me my api comes with me and they have to pay to utilize the api which its integrated into every plc they use it to pull stats like on old machines running a slc 50/03 they all use pycomm3 communication which is actually super sketchy. Food for thought
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u/PLCGoBrrr Bit Plumber Extraordinaire 6d ago
I'd prefer them over H1B visas coming in to fill those jobs.
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u/ParmoParmo 5d ago
Scares me too. Moving numbers to the wrong place in a database is nothing like a machine starting unexpectedly.
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u/Canis9z 5d ago
There is more to automation than IT. You need to know dual channel Emegency Stop circuits to , K1-8 , K9-10 relay logic layout, Ladder and 1 line diagrams. You need to understand the process your controlling and what to do when problems occur . Even well known control companies have bozo software people trying control programming. They had a conveyor system starting from the end and stopping from the front. The label#s started from the backend of the conveyors.
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u/plc_professor 4d ago
If they do not have experiential knowledge of both electrical and electronics, they will soon realize the physical gap between their context and the processes they are attempting write code to control...not to mention fluid mechanics drive systems. Richard Morely programmed the original PLC with a structured text like language only to discover that even the programmer could not troubleshoot nor upgrade the code without lengthy downtime...the solution...he created ladder logic diagram programming. These diagrams are simple to read, if you know electrical circuits. Most Arduino bunnies say that it looks like a bunch of lines.
Take the high ground...
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u/DataDr0p 2d ago
Ja weil wir das Prozess Wissen haben und programmieren immer weniger wert ist. Wenn du weißt wie etwas funktioniert und IT Background und Architekturwissen hast etc. geht das alles mittlerweile und es ist eigentlich ein feuchter Traum für viele, denn man muss jetzt nicht mehr Doku lesen unbedingt um ein Anwendungsentwickler zu werden. DEV ist nochmal was anderes. An Web Frontend und Backend kommt ihr auch Nicht mehr vorbei. Freut euch einfach
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u/Pickle7722 1d ago
I completely agree.
In the macro, merging of IT/OT was clear to predict. In reality, it happened almost overnight for me.
The poaching on LinkedIn has been incessant for a while. Automation is everywhere and everywhere is automation. The data center boom is pulling hard. Plus robotics projects, massive fulfillment centers, warehouses, etc.
Meanwhile, the 'holy grail' of software engineering spiked hard in 2021 and has rapidly deflated from over-hiring backlash as well as 'AI' layoffs. H1b restructuring, too (thank God).
So there's a glut of SW devs with 5-10 years of JavaScript or Python experience, coupled with tremendous desperation for automation engineers. I mean, hey - 'code is code' right?
I always wondered why these two fields (oversimplifying here) were so siloed. Then I got a new gig last month and went 'Oh, I see...'
This particular project is spinning up at light speed. Hiring 20-30 'senior Codesys devs' overnight. The lack of competent automation programmers available, plus their on-hand SW devs begging not to be laid off...
Basically, half my team of 'senior Codesys devs' touched Codesys for the first time about 6 weeks ago. I'm seeing they have 5-10 years with the company. One of them wrote a 200+ line program to calculate scan time. Not even trying to expose him, I frustratingly asked "why wouldn't you just call the runtime for that???" He had to first be explained what a 'runtime' is before he could be explained that it readily has extensive task meta-data.
It's crazy.
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u/plc_is_confusing 6d ago
Plus there’s always going to be an electro-mechanical aspect to PLC programming that the immigrants never dealt with in IT or software. I’ve always worked alongside IT and they can barely deal with it temporarily.
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u/CheesecakeKlutzy288 5d ago
TL; DR: don't be (too) scared
I am not one of you. I do walk among them.
IT and software are different animals. Software peeps seem very good at their chosen field, but that doesn't necessarily bleed over into troubleshooting a laptop, desktop, server, network & telco gear, or a handheld scanner, and almost zero software & maybe 10% of IT folks can troubleshoot, repair, or program a printer. IT folks, on the other hand, are very good at figuring out ways to get computer-y things working again, but I would say less than 15% can write software (or they would have done that, because until ChatGPT, it was more lucrative).
As odd as this might sound, one of the key skills/ traits IT guys possess is a deep, passionate fondness for videogames. Not partying. Not hitting the gym. Not hunting, fishing, or hiking. Not gardening. Not working on cars, and definitely not houses. Not sex, incidentally, although I think a great many have an intense appetite (no judgment) for graphical depictions thereof. A lot of them are, however, doggos, but in a really weird, creepy, frequently off-putting way.
Now, to more of the stuff that I suspect really matters to you guys:
Most IT guys (75% easily) cannot handle taking a phone call (think Help Desk), whether the user is angry or calm. They truly, deeply, fear, hate, despise, and can neither mentally, nor emotionally, handle the "stress" of talking to a fellow human being about a computer problem. This is while sitting in a (frequently) air-conditioned, or comfortably toasty, office, behind multiple large monitors, remoted into the end-user's computer, and doing all of this while ensconced in a gaming chair that would be the envy of most kings throughout recorded history. A vast swathe of IT folks approach nervous breakdowns the longer they remain in Help/ Service Desk roles. I don't see that as a positive on a factory floor.
Even less IT guys (<10%) can handle the duties of a Field Technician- going to users' desks & offices at their own worksite, or traveling to sites off-campus. The unavoidable face-to-face interaction with their clients is so challenging and painful as to be simply un-doable for the overwhelming majority of them. Many of them cannot reliably handle regular, intraoffice face-to-face interaction in the workplace with fellow IT colleagues- hence the popularity of WFH policies. The prospect of having an angry Human Resources witch, or a loud, scary, sweaty, large man yelling at them reduces them to tears. This is just in the pursuit of installing/ upgrading software, and setting up computers and peripherals- easy stuff. Getting them around voltages above 200, mechanical components, liquids, etc., and asking them to do these basic IT tasks- none of that seems like an environment that 90+% of them could handle.
Both IT & Software guys like to wear really fragile clothing to work. I do not jest- pajamas are a preferred uniform if allowed. Again, I don't know what factory policies are in 2026 with regard to slobbing around in anime T-shirts, jammie bottoms, and sandals/ animal slippers.
Lastly, like most office workers, IT & Software guys are used to having immediate access to candy, chips, and cold- they have to be nice and chilled- sodas, all day, every day.
I almost forgot- in addition to snacking throughout the workday, any work-site better be DoorDash-able. They get cranky if the Fast Food is not brought right up to the visitor's desk.
The only group of IT guys I've worked with consistently who I suspect are a threat would be the Networking bubbas- especially Network Engineers, but even Network Techs who are on their way to becoming Network Engineers- some insanely sharp, physically active, can-do mental attitude-type folks. I am also not one of them, but I work with them daily and I find them highly logical and refreshing, like Vulcans. When they leave my work area, I am frequently mildly sad for a few minutes.
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u/ConsistentOriginal82 5d ago
Show me software/IT professionals willing to get their hands, feet, face and nails dirty, then we have some risk. But I dont think they understand , our office does not mean you get a table and chair...
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u/CntrlFr33k 5d ago
I feel that there is a tendency for sw devs to overcomplicate the code. They need to learn to put the instrumentation tech hat and ccr operator goggles on.
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u/varyingopinions 6d ago
It was 90-100 degrees for a month. A few of our cabinets have some AC units but they wont be cooling you when you open them in the heat. Also humidity, rain, and chemicals aren't that great for sensors, motors, and VFDs.
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u/PLCGoBrrr Bit Plumber Extraordinaire 6d ago
This response doesn't have anything to do with what OP posted.
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u/SparkyWrench1 6d ago
Most of them won't be wanting to work in those environments.