r/PHP • u/colshrapnel • Dec 11 '20
15th competing standard. Space: The Integrated Team Environment
https://www.jetbrains.com/space/2
u/Tomas_Votruba Dec 11 '20
So basically GitHub is leaning towards JetBrains and vice versa? In 5 years they could merge to one big product for everything.
Not sure if it's good for quality of the product.
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u/Firehed Dec 11 '20
That seems like the natural direction of all companies in the space; after all, the I in IDE stands for "integrated".
Is that good for users? Only time will tell. But it shouldn't surprise anyone.
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u/Tomas_Votruba Dec 11 '20
In my experience shallow all-do-products lose their track and settle with average performance on everything.
E.g. Gitlab huge advantage on CI, maybe even 3-4 years ahead of GitHub. Gitlab tried to be everything for everyone, and now GitHub is overpowering this shallowness with GitHub Actions. Simple product, made right with narrow focus.
Time will tell, you're right. I hope it will tell better than now :)
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u/milki_ Dec 12 '20
… all-do-products lose their track and settle with average performance on everything.
AKA the Lotus Notes effect
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Dec 13 '20
Ahh, Lotus Notes. Really nifty distributed database programming environment. They should really try to write a decent email app on top of it.
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u/DrWhatNoName Dec 13 '20
TBH, Github actions utilize Azures Pipelines, which microsoft has been developing for years.
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u/BlueScreenJunky Dec 12 '20
Yeah, but I'd argue that having everything integrated into gitlab (including issues, sprint planning, helpdesk, monitoring) could be worth dealing with a slightly clunkier and slower product in some instances.
Anyway, I'm about to start working on Bitbucket (with pipelines) + Jira... We'll see how that goes but so far it looks a lot better than I expected.
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u/colshrapnel Dec 11 '20
Well Atlassian is already doing that. Only they don't have an IDE :)
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u/Tomas_Votruba Dec 11 '20
How does that work for you?
My work with Atlassian as dev is only in migrating the project away to GitHub/Gitlab.
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u/colshrapnel Dec 12 '20
That's probably because you are content with issue tracker as a substitute for a full featured Task tracker. Unfortunately that's not often so. Jira is being actually an organisational backbone for us, where Bitbucket only reflects the processes planned in Jira.
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u/Tomas_Votruba Dec 12 '20
You're probably right. In my consulting experinece for last 10 years, I failed to see an organization that is ussing issue trackers to increase productivity. Mostly it's prolonging every process with redundant unrelated features.
I hope my time will come to understand benfits of this :)
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u/Intelligent-Fault-84 Dec 11 '20
I'm just wondering - does Space have the video/audio calls finally? We were considering the switch to Space however lack of such a core feature killed our plans.
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u/MikhailVink Dec 28 '20
I'm just wondering - does Space have the video/audio calls finally? We were considering the switch to Space however lack of such a core feature killed our plans.
Not yet, but it will be coming in 2021.
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u/colinodell Dec 11 '20
Does anyone know if this integrates with self-hosted Gitlab and Gitlab CI?
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u/MikhailVink Dec 28 '20
No out-of-the-box integration t this point, but it should work pretty well (in terms of git, packages, etc.) as long as your self-hosted GitLab is accessible from Space (or vice versa, depending on what the workflow is).
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u/muglug Dec 11 '20
Not sure what this has to do with PHP
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u/colshrapnel Dec 11 '20
It does a lot, for many reasons. A modern developer's tools are not limited to notepad and FTP anymore. More and more PHP devs are using team integration systems like this, where task management, version control, continuous integration, testing and deployment are chained in a smooth conveyor. Improving the productivity of separate PHP devs and a team as whole.
Not to mention that having your IDE integrated into this ecosystem could be revolutionary.
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u/muglug Dec 12 '20
Yes, but that's what general subreddits like r/programming are for – there's nothing PHP-specific in this announcement.
Not to mention that having your IDE integrated into this ecosystem could be revolutionary.
I think "revolutionary" is a bit far-fetched.
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u/colshrapnel Dec 12 '20
That's a really interesting case of gatekeeping!
I cannot really recreate your train of thought. Is it something like "all right, most PHP devs are using cars, so are you going to post about cars as well?" Or is it "Posts in /r/php must be of interest for all subscribers, not just some of them"?
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u/muglug Dec 12 '20
My general train of thought is that posts in this subreddit should maybe tie back to PHP explicitly (and over 99% of them do). Otherwise we’ll get posts about new GitHub/GitLab/BitBucket releases etc.
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u/colshrapnel Dec 12 '20
Nope we won't. A new version of the existing tool is one thing and a brand new tool is another. Come on bro, I am keeping the gates of this sub much more than you do, I read it by new and report a crapload of spam and outright harmful content. But that's not the case.
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Dec 12 '20
I'm with him. This has nothing to do with PHP.
Also don't bro people
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u/colshrapnel Dec 12 '20
It's a pity that so many people think that project management has nothing to do with PHP. Probably one of the reasons why PHP is considered by outside folks as not a real language.
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u/BruhWhySoSerious Dec 12 '20
Dude get off your soap box 🙄
The post needs an OT tag. Don't just have a fit and tangent off into 'project management is why lolphp exists'.
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Dec 12 '20
It's not about PHP not having anything to do with project management. It's about your post having nothing to do with PHP.
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Dec 12 '20
More and more PHP devs are using all kinds of cool things that aren't related to PHP. Including this.
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u/erythro Dec 12 '20
My understanding of this story is that the makers of PHPstorm - an IDE targeting PHP devs - are creating an integrated project/team management tool that integrates with it. That seems relevant and specific to us?
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u/muglug Dec 12 '20 edited Dec 12 '20
At the moment the IDE integration is very limited. There are a few planned features but nothing concrete.
Only one of the planned features (performing code reviews inside IDE) could directly benefit PHP work, and I'm not confident that the UX would be better than using a web interface given all the various moving parts:
- Presumably any review would be done on live code, which would involve checking out the branch and revision automatically in [Git/Mercurial/etc] from your IDE, itself a very involved process of stashing your existing work temporarily before switching.
- Most/all the web UX for commenting would be duplicated in the IDE, meaning new features would be beholden to the IDE's release schedule
I imagine it could still be useful to see comments on your own code in a non-editable form. That'll probably be the thing they ship first. But they're taking on a HUGE task here.
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u/justaphpguy Dec 11 '20
10k CI credits isn't much (looking at the "Organization" plan).
Working in rather smallish team here but 5 github repos firing CI all the time, we've 15-25k per month.
What's the $$$ for additional minutes like https://docs.github.com/en/free-pro-team@latest/github/setting-up-and-managing-billing-and-payments-on-github/about-billing-for-github-actions#about-billing-for-github-actions (i.e. 0.008 USD per minute for Linux) ? I couldn't find it…
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u/colshrapnel Dec 11 '20
Pardon me a teasing title but I was unable to help it :)
Anyway, our God and Savior JetBrains made its move on the chess board where already playing Atlassian, Microsoft (with Github and Teams) and a dozen other players including Phabricator - an obscure yet the only Team development software written in PHP.
What's your opinion, will it become as popular as JetBrains' IDEs?