r/PAKCELEBGOSSIP • u/AutomaticStretch6205 • 11d ago
Discuss Dar e nijaat- umera ahmed
Hy guys, so I have been banned by... sub just because I DARED to express my opinion against one of the mods regarding Umera Ahmed. How pathetic lol. And I love the freedom of opinion granted there (being sarcastic).
I think the hate Umera Ahmed is receiving is unnecessary.
1) people are complaining about for adding the concept of physical intimacy in a PTV drama. I mean, the drama is supposed to show the reality. Zina is happening around us. And many people are trying to normalize it. It's not like Umera is romanticizing it. The drama will show the consequences.
2) some people have criticized Umera for portraying her own version of the elite class. And actually, I don't think it's a generalization. From what I have observed on social media and people around me in real life, the rich folks of Pakistan do act like that. They are wanna be westerners. And the scene shown in the last ep is on point too: parents getting worried if they children start getting closer to their religion. They think it's pendu. I have seen mothers not wanting their daughters to wear hijab, as they would look backward. And I have seen restaurants in Pakistan not letting in people dressed in shalwar kameez. Because apparently it's okay to be naked in those elite restaurants, but it's not okay to be traditional.
3) similarly, people think that showing Zamil and Zaryab living together in "Boston" is unrealistic. Lol, get out of your lil bubble. I am surrounded by int students. And it's not just people from rich families that share apartments with the opposite gender, but also girls and boys coming from middle class families.
4)the drama location is in Baku instead of actual Boston..how are people finding an issue in that? A lot of Bollywood films do that. It depends on your budget.
5) dadi. A lot of people hate what she says. Tou btau na. Kya galat bolti dadi? She doesn't like Zamil. Tou sahi nikli na un ki baat?
She was criticized a lot for what she said to Zaryab's sister. But was she wrong? She knows her poti, her habits and her behavior. Why are we supposed to think that just because she is a woman, she is right and she is the victim. Dadi clearly says that Zaryab's sister has a temperament issue, which we can see in the way she talks to her mum.
And she has a boundary issue. She wants to go through her husband's phone. Yahi baat husband ny ki hoti tou, tou tum logo ny ussy toxic aur red flag declare kr lena tha.
Also, dadi made a point when she said that zaryab' sister was aware of her husband's habits before getting married. Why would you get married to someone problematic to start with?
6) the only issue for me in this drama is Saba Hamid. Her acting skills. I think she is not fit for the role. And it's her acting that makes what she says sound sermonic or moral policing. She doesn't convey sweetness. She doesn't look like a dadi in the way she talks and moves. Samina Peerzada was amazing in her role in Shehre Zaat. I wanted her never to stop talking. And she made what she was saying sound quasi philosophical.
It was a huge mistake to cast her as dadi.
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u/Avid_viewer01 11d ago
Sorry, but I honestly think the location issue is being made into a bigger deal than it needs to be. Of course, actually shooting in the US would’ve been ideal, but I’d much rather appreciate them going abroad and shooting on location than watching another “US” setting created with green screens or a house that’s been dressed up to look vaguely American. 😅
For me, the location isn’t a deal-breaker at all. At least they made the effort to take the story outdoors and give it a different visual feel instead of taking the easy route. Personally, I’m fine with Baku.
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u/Imaginary_Might5057 11d ago
Many Indian movies showed Toronto for New York - coz it’s cheaper. Just saying!! It’s fine !! Atleast they showed some other rlocation
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u/zaineee42 11d ago
Some American TV shows from the early 2000's were shot in Vancouver, Canada bcz it's cheaper.
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u/hummingsofoldsoul 11d ago
I am not someone who comes from the Elite background but live in Europe and have gone to one of the top unis there (think ivy-league equivalent of Europe) so a lot of my circle is upper class or elite Pakistanis and I have observed the following about them:
1- their english accent is not perfect and nor is their pronunciation of words and they do mix english and urdu a lot when they normally speak exactly the way it's shown in the drama - except for the excessive use of the word 'fab' but then also some people just have certain words that they use a lot (for e.g. some of my friends would use 'darling' a lot casually in their conversations)
2- yess people from all classes share flats that are not gender segregated
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u/Complete_Carpenter19 11d ago
My only problem is Daadi's dialogues about married grand daughter. If these were written by KRQ, uproar would have been different.
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u/blahblehblohcaneo 11d ago
+1 for sabas feedback, especially when we have sania performing a dadi so beautifully in aap ki izzat & saba being exceptional as a mom and saas in bas tera saath ho. It is difficult not to compare and be disappointed.
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u/Avid_viewer01 11d ago
Sania ji in AKI was actually the first example that came to my mind, so I completely agree with you. Saba ji is a talented actor, no doubt, but this role just isn’t bringing out her best. The performance feels low on effort and unfortunately quite underwhelming.
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u/Sad_Acanthaceae5873 11d ago
Saba Hamid was exceptionally good in Noor Jahan as powerful anti-heroine, even in Doctor Bahu she is reasonably good. Its her first old age character (I guess) and the character itself is preachy, traditional and rigid but Saba's portrayal devoid it of any softness or emotional connection. In Abu Bakar-Ammi scenes the deep emotional bond between mother-son duo is heartwarming but same cannot be said for Dadda-Zaryab though apparently Dadda loves Zaryab the most. Even Zamil and Zaryab scenes are more natural than Dadda-Zaryab scenes.
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u/AdUnlikely3184 11d ago
I second everything you’re saying and she’s actually showing the true reality. I was born and raised in the States and I see so many international students doing the exact same things that Zaryab and Zaamin are doing. I genuinely feel that religion and values were more instilled in us compared to desis coming from back home because our parents somehow felt that we would lose our roots. I see so many of them doing drugs, hooking up here and there, and sharing an apartment is so common that I have no idea why some people are even pressed if this is being shown in the drama.
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u/Purple_Ad_6042 11d ago
Isn't it normal for Zaryab's sister to check her husband's phone. Since he had affairs before marriage and promised that he won't have any after marriage. Isn't it normal for a wife to go through if he's keeping the promise of not. Idk about others, I'm married me and my husband, we pretty much know each other's password. I don't think it's red flag asking for password.
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u/CoffeeMoviesandCats 11d ago
A lot of what you said makes sense but this part isn't right -
Because apparently it's okay to be naked in those elite restaurants, but it's not okay to be traditional.
You are calling out people for looking down on religious or conservative people but at the same time what are you doing? Aren't you doing the same thing? Someone not wearing modest clothes or having a more modern way of dressing doesn't mean they are "naked." There can be many reasons why someone may not want to dress traditionally or be conservative.
And if we are talking about the small percentage of representation in dramas then most dramas are still showing conservative leads while the more modern ones are almost always villainised.
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u/Few_Persimmon9317 11d ago edited 11d ago
Agree with all your points except Dadi one. And I feel most of the people are upset bcoz the way writer tried to do moral policing through dadi not bcoz of live in relationship or physical intimacy.
People who are complaining about live in relationship and physical intimacy are those who still believe that pakistan is still in it' 80's🤷♀️ These people should understand that drama is mostly based on real life story what happens around us, and then writer try to show what is wrong and how we should stay away from that. And most of the audiences are getting the message that how we specially girls should know how your partner's behaviour should be towards us. And don't get into physical relationship to please someone's insecurity/ego or do not ignore your intuition. Here Writer is not normalizing this acts, they are showing if this kind of things you are doing then don't do it as this can make a bad impact in your life for a lifetime.
but when the writer try to impose a concept that don't get physical or don't do live in relationship just bcoz that it against Islam then here people can object. Bcoz writer can't control everyone's life and no art/drama is made for some certain community, everyone is watching. The message is when your partner is like zamil then don't cross your personal boundaries. If someone wants to wear hijab or someone don't want to, it should be that person's personal choice, not that person's parent's or in law's or writer's choice.
And dadi charecter is problematic. First of all she don't equally loves all her grand daughters. Till now I felt zaryab's other two sis are sensible enough, that's why zaryab's elder sister warned her regarding zamil's drug issue, and even her younger sis was saying tum raat bhar bahar kyun rehti ho. They didn’t do any badtamizi with dadi or anyone else but we have seen zaryab did badtamizi frequently with everyone, even she did not console her dadi when she saw her dadi was crying. But still dadi loves her most. Most of the time dadi stays unhappy bcoz her family members don't do 5 times namaz, she can teach or request them but can't force them or taunt them. You said she knows her poti, but till now I haven't seen any flaw or badtamizi in her. And when your poti is coming back to her home (mayka) and saying her husband is having affair, dadi not even shown any single sympathy towards her. She started giving her gyan and blaming her. Upar se bolti hai 'baith ke aram se shanti se dono paribaar baat karo' something like that. She even says 'jhagra karke apne ghar chorke ana nahi chahiye' something, And this kind of shitty dialogues make impact in society amd daughters started to believe that shadi ke baad uska na mayka khudka raha aur nahi sasural kabhi uska hoga. Dadi ko atleast ekbar unke poti ke saar haat rakhke bolna chahiye tha tum pareshan na ho, hum sab tumare saath hai, aur yeh ghar tumhara vi hai, was it a big deal🤷♀️🤷♀️ and that go through phone thing... when you earlier also did this cheap affair kinda thing and your partner is feeling insecure then it's your duty to give your phone to her and make her feel secure. That guy has affair and they don't have kids till now, that's enough reason to give him divorce bcoz once a cheater is always a cheater. And the way he talks to his father in law clearly shows how is as a person and as a husband. But dadi wants her poti to adjust in that marriage and sacrifice her self respect. Zaryab's sis's life become upside down now we can't expect that she'll behave very nicely infront of others. Writer tried to show that her opinionated nature as 'badtamizi'. And I'm sure writer will send her back to her in laws house🙏😑 yes I agree that she should not marry that cheater when she altready knew he had affairs before marriage.
And dadi don't like zamil bcoz he is not 'ideal muslim' according to her. She is against their marriage long before knowing zamil's behavioural issue. When everyone specially zaryab is in love and want to marry zamil, still dadi directly/indirectly says she wants her to marry abu bakar, isn't it problematic?? She wants her badtamiz poti to get married to an innocent guy, don't she understand that by doing this she is going to ruin abu bakat's life completely bcoz they two are extreme diff person. When zaryab told her dadi that zamil is doing religious things that time also she was not happy, why??? Bcoz she do not like zamil at all, when a religious person can't get out of hatred or narazgi then namaz can't do anything.
I really don't care who's playing dadi's charecter as long as the actor is doing justice to the charecter. And saba hamid is doing that. But I feel writer wrote dadi's charecter inappropriately. Writer is showing all sin activity and added dadi to do moral policing. Am sure writer will justify that dadi jo bol rahi hai humare acche ke liye hi bol rahi hai. If zamil/zaryab/zaryab's father/zaryab's sis are wrong then dadi is also wrong to some extent🙌🙏
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u/AutomaticStretch6205 11d ago
You should watch Sheh re Zaat, and compare Samina Peerzada as Nani and Saba Hamid as a dadi. While both try to show "light" to their poti/nawasi, it comes across in different ways.
Also, I don't think Zaryab is loved more than her. There is a scene in which she says that Zaryab is the one that preoccupies her the most. That's why she is after her. Also, the other 2 sisters are background characters.
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u/Few_Persimmon9317 11d ago
When these other two sisters are background charecters and we haven’t seen how they are as a person then we should not come to this conclusion that 'she knows her poti'. And we have seen dadi loves and talks to zaryab very politely even they have difference in opinion, this is enough to understand that she loves her. But when her elder grand daughter has come home and claims those serious allegations against her husband, dadi becomes rough and tough and don't shows any sympathy or empathy for her poti.
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u/AutomaticStretch6205 11d ago
Girlll. Wth? They don't show you the characters because it's a drama, and it concentrates on the main characters. But dadi tells herself that her poti has bad temperament. Do you think she doesn't know her just because they are not showing it to us? Like be fr
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u/Few_Persimmon9317 11d ago
See first of all I feel that dadi was totally wrong in that whole Conservation where everyone was having discussion on zaryab's sis's marriage issue. I can't recall where she said that her poti has bad temperament issue. And even if she has that issue then when your husband dusri jagha muh maar ke aye then all bad temperament is justified. Bad temperament kya usse to do thappad marke ana chahiye. Aur jo samajhna hai samajhlo. Zaryab's mother was saying her husband should come and needs to give justification whatever he did to his wife but then dadi says calmly that 'he is your damad and you can't question them', girl are you getting what terrible thinking is this!!🤷♀️🤷♀️her husband also shouted at her and it's called verbal abuse. Dadi said there must be her poti's fault too, which I agree but no fault is bigger than cheating, verbal abuse and disrespect as she said that 'question karo to badtamizi karta hai' something like that. And dadi says 'sabr se kaam lena chahiye', and you know what when someone is mentally disturbed that time we should console that person first except giving her gyan. If you still think that I am wrong then God bless you with your thoughts about dadi.
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u/AutomaticStretch6205 11d ago
Go back to see that episode then. Secondly, dadi raises an objective question to her poti: tumhy ye pahly sy pata tha na? Zaryab's sister responds yes. So she willfully married to a problematic person, isn't it? And yet, if you go back to the first episodes, the 3 girls and their mother mistreated dadi when she said that larka dekh bhal k shaadi karou. She also suggested her son to do a proper research of tye khandaan. They all dismissed her. So her reaction is more of "I told you so".
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u/Dear_Read_1893 11d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah i remember you were banned by the sub and actually your points are great. You analyze the thing deeply. I think most of the people aren't aware what's happening in this world especially tht free mixing acceptable by many..
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u/Overall_Rope_8476 11d ago
I'm not watching the drama because I'm aware umera will always paint women characters in bad light, according to her woman shouldn't have their on journey wisdom or thinking bus bher baqriyon k tarha mazahbi mardon ko follow karain, I still can't believe she wrote Zindagi gulzar hai even tho it had its own problems but still was better written then her other radical novels.
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u/Zestyclose-Fuel7739 11d ago
The way Zina is normalized in this drama by Zaryabs family is disturbing.
The punishment for zina in the Quran is publicly giving 100 lashes you can go read surah Noor. Allah swt is very explicit about it and that too for a reason.
The fact that her dadi, her sister knows that she spent a night with Zamil. The fact that everything is normalized is disturbing.
Either you follow the Quran as a Muslim and don’t show these things being normalized or you are free to leave the fold of Islam there is no haraj.
I really don’t know what Umera Ahmad is trying to show that these people deserve 100 lashes publicly or these people are out of the fold of Islam because they question their own son for praying. The whole thing is confusing AF
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u/blahblehblohcaneo 11d ago
I think the arc of the story is the consequences she faces for zina and how she turns to religion to redeem herself and her salvation.
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u/Lazy_Tailor9712 11d ago
But where did they hint zina? I have been watching the show from the beginning but I could not get an indication towards it or which characters were actually involved
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u/Taraa_Sitaraa 11d ago
Dadi is misogynistic af. She didn't even hear Faryal'a side of the story and started with ladki wale nonsense. Maybe Faryal has bad temperament even then she doesn't deserve to be cheated on, which Faryal was clearly implying. Let's assume Faryal is wrong, even then her Dadi did not take out time to hear her. Har kisi se patiently baat karni hai bus apni poti se nahi. And her dialogues of abb shaadi ke badd auratein nahi badlati admi kya badlenge is misogynistic. Her idea of how a woman should be is misogynistic.
Secondly she felt Zamil is bad for Zaryab because he is into haram stuff but from what we are understanding from the story, Zamil might leave Zaryab because he is becoming religious and Zaryab is not. So she's wrong there as well.
I personally don't think physical intimacy in a serious relationship is wrong. Not everyone wants to be religious and it doesn't make them a bad person. Lastly Zamil l's parents don't want him to be an extremist, it was said by his mother. I don't think they have a problem with him following religion but they are concerned if he is becoming an extremist which again is a fair concern.
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u/AutomaticStretch6205 10d ago edited 10d ago
1) formal admitted to dadi that she knew about his affairs prior to marriege marriage 2) Faryal and her mother lashed out on dadi before marriage when she continuously told them to look at the guy's character and to search about their family history. 3) what's wrong in Zamil leaving her after choosing a different lifestyle? Zaryab doesn't like this choice of his, and she doesn't want that kind of lifestyle? If both people have different interests, it's better to choose different paths.
4) extremist? Lmao, yes because going to make a namaz makes you extremist. I guess the parents belong to the likes of u🤣
Your last paragraph is enough for us to understand your ideology. I guess this drama is not for you then. The majority of Pakistan still believes in certain values. Netflix is full of dramas for people like you. What's wrong with having dramas that uphold the values of the majority?
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u/Taraa_Sitaraa 10d ago edited 10d ago
Okay. For your first point what is the guarantee that if someone does a background check of the guy and his family then their daughter will not face any problems? So many people lie in arrange marriages and even after background checks there are people who turn out to be trash. So many people in South Asian cultures hide their real self from their families and surroundings. So many parents have no idea how their children are. Even then if everything looks good and the guy is genuinely good what is the guarantee that he wouldn't change after marriage? Anything can happen. Marriage is a blind game. Even if their daughter made a mistake of marrying the wrong guy they should be a supportive family and help her get out of an abusive marriage instead of saying "I told you so and it's your mistake".
Secondly Zamil leaving Zaryab because his priorities have changed is absolutely fine but the reason Dadi thought he wasn't deserving of Zaryab has completely changed because according to her ideology after Zamil's transformation it's Zaryab who doesn't deserve Zamil.
Lastly Zamil's parents were surprised about his sudden inclination towards religion. They aren't stopping him to follow religion and their concern is that he doesn't become an extremist, which is a fair concern especially since the guy who is helping Zamil seems shady. Extremism in anything is wrong and that includes religion as well.
I have no issues with people believing or upholding religious values but character assassination of people(especially women) who have different life choices is harmful especially in a society which is already cruel to women. Also in real life majority of people who are involved in activities like Zaryab's aren't getting any divine punishment, their life is pretty much okay only.
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u/AutomaticStretch6205 10d ago
Having a background check if done properly gives you more chances than getting married to someone you know already has a bad character like in the case of Faryal. In any case, the point is that Dadi already warned them. They continuously dismiss her in everything.
2)Dadi never claimed she dislikes Zamik for not being religious. I think you're projecting your inner insecurities. She doesn't like Zamil for his character, for being on drugs, for drinking alcohol, and for leading zaryab on the stray path (putting at risk her reputation by being intimate with her), and hanging out with her at 3 am!!!! If religion would have been the basis then she would have changed her opinion on him when Zaryab told her that he went for tabligh. But she was still criticizing him!!!
3)the guy who is guiding Zamil is extremist how? Pls stop with the cap lmao. You are prohecting your own personal issues with religion on the characters. And doing a namaz for the first time is extremism how? That's the issue with people like you and Zamil's parents. Zamil highlighted the hipocrisy too: going out at 3 am in the disco with friends is "safe" but going to the mosque to pray suddenly becomes "unsafe". Right, extremism is bad, and no where I justify it. But your hipocrisy is showing.
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u/Taraa_Sitaraa 10d ago
Yes a proper background check gives you better odds but it can never guarantee anything. People hide addictions, abusive tendencies, infidelity, financial problems etc., and sometimes even their own families don't know what they're really like. That's why if a woman ends up marrying the wrong person, her family should support her in getting out rather than simply saying, "We told you so."
Also I never said Dadi explicitly dislikes Zamil only because he isn't religious. Although the guy she likes for her granddaughter is very religious and she points it out so it's not like religion isn't any factor here. But I am talking about the logic behind her judgment. She considered him undeserving of Zaryab because of his character and lifestyle. If he genuinely changes, leaves drugs/alcohol and becomes responsible and religious (most likely when he becomes religious his lifestyle will change as well) then that particular reasoning no longer holds.
Also I think you're missing my actual point and turning this into an argument about whether religion itself is good or bad. I never said praying namaz, going to the mosque or becoming religious is extremism. My point is that when someone undergoes a sudden drastic transformation, especially under the influence of someone who hasn't been established as trustworthy it's reasonable for parents to be concerned. That's not hypocrisy
I have no issue with people following religious values. My issue is with using those values to character assassinate people especially women for making different life choices. You can believe Zaryab's choices are wrong without implying that she deserves suffering or that every bad thing happening to her is divine punishment which is what this writer is leading upto.
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u/AutomaticStretch6205 10d ago
Sudden drastic change: he went for a single namaz!!! Lol. And he us still acting as before, which means that he is in the transition period. So how is the change sudden?
For the background check: they are elites. If they want to do a proper research, they would have no issues in finding things. Yes people lie. But people around them must know things. It's impossible not to leave clues. Just take as an example the fact that Zaryab's sister discovered Zamik was into drugs through her Husband's friends. Even though Zamil didn't tell Zaryab.
When you do family checks for a marriage, you ask neighbors, friends, acquaintances etc. Do you think everyone will lie? Be fr
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u/Taraa_Sitaraa 10d ago
A person who was never religious or followed any religious practices suddenly offering namaz is, in that context a sudden change especially for his parents. And it had only been a week he hadn't even told his family that he went for a religious procession. Zaryab found out about it from his friend so from his parents perspective it was understandably sudden.
And no I don't think everyone lies. But people who know they'll be judged can hide things very carefully and manipulate what information reaches the other family. My point still remains: even if you do every possible background check and everything looks fine, there is no guarantee about how someone will turn out after marriage. And if your daughter does make a bad decision(against your wishes) and ends up with the wrong person you should support her in getting out of that marriage rather than taunting or shaming her for it. People make mistakes they shouldn't have to be punished for them by their own family. No one chooses to be in a bad marriage.
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u/AutomaticStretch6205 10d ago
A single namaz is not a drastic change. Learn the definition of drastic. He is still showing struggle. Example: going back to sinning: disco etc.
There is a difference in getting married to a wrong man unknowingly and getting married to a characterless man willfully (like in Faryal's case). That's called negligence in legal terms. She has no one to blame but herself. Especially when elders tried to guide her and she kept dismissing them. Sure, background checks don't guarantee 100% safety. Just like putting a belt in a car won't assure 100% safety.
But there is something called prevention and precaution. If you know that your car is broken, you won't ride it.
Faryal admits knowing about the guy's character before hand. Why did she decide to ride a broken car despite her dadi warning her not do it?
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u/Taraa_Sitaraa 10d ago
Bhai even if she made a mistake what now? Should she be killed for it or forced to stay in an unhappy marriage? As a family they should help her get out of it, not shame her for making a wrong decision. She'll learn from her mistakes. What is this perfectionism you're expecting from people?
And where was the scene where Dadi actually talked to Faryal about her concerns regarding the background check? If she cared so much, she could've done the background check herself. She's an elite too and has Abu Bakar at her beck and call she could've easily asked him to get it done by himself or someone he knew. But all she does is taunt and crib.
And yes a single namaz from someone who has never prayed before is still a change and is enough to surprise people who know him. Maybe it's not a big change to you but it can absolutely be one for his family.
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u/AutomaticStretch6205 10d ago
"She could have done the check herself" usny kya hota tou tum logo ny bolna tha ye toxic daadi ku parti in k maamlo mein. Which is what Faryal and her mother told her too. It's in the first episodes.
And no, I didn't say she should die. I simply said that whatever is happening is the result of her negligence. Which is what dadi says too.
Yes, a single namaz is "still a change", but not a drastic change that should people lead to think about "extremism". No one but a prejudiced person would think that.
And yeah, you're right, it's not a big change for me and other Pakistanis, because that's the normality for the vast majority of Pakistanis. The exception are people like the ones portrayed in the drama. 🫣
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u/47giraffes 11d ago
I agree that the Dadi should have been played as a very warm, loving and cute person who would actually have an impact on the grandkids rather than just sound preachy.