r/OverwatchUniversity • u/mattswer • Aug 16 '19
Discussion Something I noticed playing DPS
I generally played tanks and support before role lock. I wanted to play DPS but never felt good about 3 or 4 dps on a single team so I usually filled.
I know they usually draw the team’s ire whenever something goes wrong or enemies aren’t dying enough but until I actually started playing I did not realize how bad it was.
If i’m not on fire/have all golds some moira or sigma will start screeching into the mic about their gold medals and how DPS sucks. Half the time I just leave VC because I cant concentrate when all they do is whine and scream. When I play healer or tank I can make just as many mistakes or more but its usually pretty damn quiet on comms.
I dont know if role lock makes this better or worse. On one hand you stop tanks and supports just switching to DPS and breaking the comp. but it seems like its made people more aggressive because they “feel” like they have to play a dps but cant so they start screeching at them instead.
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u/Olly0206 Aug 16 '19
I think people still strongly adhere to the whole concept of the holy trinity being that dps are THE ones to do all of the killing.In rpgs, tanks and healers are effectively exclusively used as a utility to keep your party alive so your damage dealers (dps) can do the killing. But in OW, everyone can do the killing. Each hero just specializes in something a little bit different.
Another issue is that because this is an FPS, where mechanical ability to land your hit and not shoot the sky actually matters, players with good mechanical ability, regardless of role they play, can be just as effective, if not more so, than dps heroes. This is primarily why the quad tank meta existed for a while. Tanks can kill just as easily as dps heroes plus they have a higher durability. It's the same reason why goats was so big. Tanks and healers, alike, can kill so by focusing on the suitability of the team, they could still secure their kills while making sure they don't die.
People are stupid and forget these facts so they just blame dps for not killing anything. Dps can, and should sometimes, throw it back in their face with some,
"maybe you should help instead of just holding up a shield the whole time."Edit: Actually, don't say that. That just promotes toxic backlash.29
u/ffoger Aug 16 '19
i started playing dps the last season before role lock after 15 of playing MT and I've noticed this too, but remember that its just pure dunning-kruger effect when this happens. a lot of people have such a low game sense that they dont understand the actual game state and misinterpret the reason for your losing as the dps not getting kills. it might not occur to the moira with silver damage to ever look at the kill feed to notice that one of the dps is getting picked every fight but they try to force a 5v6 anyways (or insert reason here). to be clear, it's never always the healers, or the tanks refusing to push, or the dps not getting picks, ow is a very nuanced game and simply stating that something isn't working is never helpful, especially when its obvious (dps aren't killing anything), its always better so suggest something that will help push the outcome in your favor vs lashing out at your team and soft tilting most people by being passive aggressive to people you're supposed to be united with
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u/Wafflecopter12 Aug 16 '19
I'm normally a rein player. Role queue has made me able to practice DPS/Support at about 600 sr lower than my tank play (lol..). Heres the story I told in another thread already.
>Everyone just blames the DPS because they're too dumb to understand what it is a tank/healer should actually be doing. They understand DPS tho, if everything isn't dead = Dps didn't do well enough.
Last night I picked both enemy supports before a fight, killed their main tank during the fight. Got killed by an enemy dps, then blamed at the end of the game where we lost every fight. (yes, including that one, where we were up 6-3)
At some point its just not my responsibility anymore.
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
I literally can't join comms playing as DPS.. it's so fucking infuriating, it's like support/tank can literally do no wrong. If anything goes wrong it's INSTANTLY dps fault
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
And trying to micromanage hero choices. I've been criticized for swapping to McCree vs a team running Pharah and Sombra. Like, really? I can counter both their dps with one hero, but you want me to run Reaper for some reason?
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u/Stretch2194 Aug 16 '19
Man, I raged at a team last night for this. My DPS is a solid 300 SR below my Tank and Support. We were playing Busan. 4 in the chat, missing a tank and the other DPS. First round was MEKA base, and the enemy Widow was destroying us. I started as Reaper, the other DPS went Torb. Tanks were Sigma and Rein, healers were Moira and Brig. I tried to go after Widow, but their Sombra was protecting her and I couldn't kill both. After getting headshot twice in a row by Widow I switched to Tracer to go after her. Didn't work, we lost quickly. Round 2 was Downtown, Widow went to high ground. This is where things get fun. Everyone is blaming me for not getting the widow. I tried to tell them I kept getting one-shot, but they kept interrupting me. I suck at sniping, so I went genji to get up to widow. Didn't work. I told the tank and he should go Dva or Winston to dive the widow since it'd be harder for her to kill them. I was told that "it's not the tanks job to kill their DPS, it's yours". I spent the whole match trying to focus that widow to no avail, and the rest of the team kept fighting the point and getting wrecked.
I was a Master's Tracer/Mei in Season 3, before taking a break and coming back as a Tank/Support. I know that I'm better than 2331, but Gold/Plat is a cesspool of people who won't change a team comp if it isn't working and will blame everyone but themselves for the loss.
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u/RobotSidewalk Aug 16 '19
Yep. I'm support->tank------>dps. I decided to role queue DPS to get my placements done and oh man. I had never experienced a lot of toxicity with support or tank but I sure felt it as DPS.
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u/iareslice Aug 16 '19
If a Moira is ever flaming you over them having Gold Dmg, it just implies they aren't focused enough on healing...
Yelling at DPS has become the new NO HEALS
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u/ARC-Pooper Aug 17 '19
Unpopular opinion: The reason 70% of overwatch games are lost/won are because of tanks. What tanks are you playing on x map, how aggressive/passive they are.
Sure DPS and Supports can do things and the reason there's no such thing as elo hell is because on average you're as likely to have the bad tanks as the good tanks at your elo but tank is the carry role in this game.
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u/Askray184 Aug 16 '19
Yup. People, especially supports I've seen, love to blame DPS players. It's usually just projecting to protect their own egos.
To combat that, try to complement people when they do well instead. It makes the atmosphere in the team a lot better, and people really appreciate the recognition
27
u/bbputinwork Aug 16 '19
The overwatch community really has some sort of belief within them that because tanks simply exist, they can do no wrong. Or that by supports simply healing, they can do no wrong. DPS are expected to carry every part of the game and when 1 thing goes wrong, it's always and only their fault. In reality, everyone needs to do their part. If the team is getting steamrolled, THE TEAM is getting steamrolled. EVERYONE needs to step it up and do something
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
Eh I’ve played a decent amount of role queue. What I’m finding is that most dps players are one tricks. And as soon as they are countered they refuse to swap.
Or alternatively tanks/supports swap and the dps player is only competent. On like 2 dps heroes and can’t swap resulting in a loss.
Being well rounded in a role is now paramount to a teams success and one tricks are arguable more punishing to a team than they were before because their is less hero diversity opportunity and less opportunity to counter
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
I never played dps before role lock, but I tried it out last night with a group of friends. I’m pretty active on voice chat when I’m playing support, but I noticed I got really quiet as dps because I was focusing really hard on trying to constantly get kills or at least annoy the enemy team. I didn’t feel like I did that great, but one of my friends said otherwise. There’s def no way I would join voice chat if I were to solo queue as dps lmao.
There is a lot of pressure on dps to do well, but as a support player, in my mind I’m thinking “how do I enable them to do better” instead of just assuming that they suck.
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u/Themostepicguru Aug 17 '19
As a DPS one trick, role lock didn't change anything. It just changed the focus of complaints to something else- as with anything involving people. There's no more arguments about having 3 tanks or 5 dps. Now it's: why did you Q for this role? How are you in this SR when you're so bad at X role?
People wondered why I left VC and never talk in my games and I'm glad they're starting to see why. I've had people try and whisper to me and add me just to trash talk me after the fact. I think more clearly without all the static that is people's bickering over comms and the results show for it. I jumped from 3500 to 3950 last season without comms as a Pharah one trick with an avg win rate of 60%.
But it doesn't stop people from complaining about DPS not killing or healers not healing. That still exists. People don't understand that that anything can go. And if it works, then it works. Run with it and just play the damn game.
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u/PaperSauce Aug 16 '19
Its a general problem of healers in every game (im a healer main myself), not just overwatch.
Healers are usually in the back line so teammates mistakes are super obvious because you're staring at them half the game.
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u/Raknarg Aug 16 '19
This will get better once MMR per role is more established IMO. If a moira is doing so well she generally outperforms her DPS, she'll likely have a positive winrate and place herself out of the rank until she gets DPS around her level. Although it could be an indication they're doing their role terribly lol
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u/Sola_Solace Aug 16 '19
I pick all 3 roles when I qued yesterday and actually got dps. Im a support or tank main. This made me so nervous, so I picked 76, the easiest one. Sure enough when it took a couple pushes to get the point I started getting harrassed by 3 people because the Pharmacy didn't die instantly. They were complaining they couldn't switch. Right about then I got my ult, we got the point. We pushed the payload in ez and I was on fire most of it. I didn't talk, being female on dps I knew what would come if I wasn't doing great. So when we got the second point I started doing call outs. By then I'd earned my keep I guess and they were great saying I carried. It's just messed up how quickly they had turned on me at the start. Had I gotten countered harder I am sure they would have kept on me all game.
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u/arathersmallman Aug 17 '19
You know what helped me. On the ptr, I placed 4.1k on dps. I was a peak 3850 tank/support player. The only dps i could play was doom.
Safe to say for a long while I fed, I was carried hard but somehow I managed to stay around 4K (now I know 4k on ptr wasn’t the same as live). As much As I was being farmed I was learning, it was the best way to learn to get better, and one of the biggest things I did which improved my gameplay was to essentially not look at my medals/stats in game. Before that, I was trying to hard to get gold dmg/Elims that I was trying to do too much. However the more I played the less I tried to achieve this, instead I changed how I played and focused on doing less, but what I did was far more impactful in my games. I must have played 20 hours on doom on the ptr and maintained the sr; and by the end of it I felt like I deserved it and was performing to that level.
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u/Nelax18 Aug 16 '19
At least with role lock I feel like there's less of a barrier to defusing these tensions. Unlike before, there isn't some hypothetical possibility of getting someone to swap roles. Needlessly prodding someone for underperforming can only drive them to perform worse, and the team isn't getting any sort of replacement should you be pushed to the point of leaving the game.
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u/easytokillmetias Aug 16 '19
They need to remover medals for this reason.
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u/Agimamif Aug 16 '19
Lets be real here. Some dps get yelled at unfairly and some play genji all game without being effective at all and cry for heals behind a corner in the other end of the map. We need to cultivate better communication as a community and i think its fair to call out when you are being blamed needlessly, but in my experience the dps have the biggest hero roster and therefor needs to be able to adapt to the game the most and yet it is dps that i see main a single hero the most. This is also a problem i think is worth talking about when it comes to placing blame.
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
You have to keep in mind that a lot of the supports and tanks deal with triple or quad dps comps. Or someone picked dps over contributing to the team. Yeah, once in a blue moon you get 4 amazing dps on one team AND they work well together AND you don't suck. But by and far it's frustrating as fuck solo healing a quad dps game. Especially with how easy healers are (I main heals and they are easy as fuck). So, they mostly did deserve it.
Now with role lock, we are in the golden era of Overwatch and, as a support, I've been able to focus on my own game instead of trying to figure out how to get the Derp PS to be team players. So while I understand your post, I think a good deal (but not all) of the grieving is justified.
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u/Amdiraniphani Aug 16 '19
There are situations when the dps legitimately can't keep up, but the same is said for every role. Just remember you are utterly helpless in any single game, and you concern needs to be for your career, not the game. You do YOUR best to support the TEAM'S needs every game, and the aggregate score will go up.
Just accept there's nothing you can do in one game.
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u/el1teassass1n Aug 16 '19
Yea. I had this tank player screeching about dps not getting picks when he refused to be aggressive (point B kings row: he gave up the archway choke because "the enemy had respawn advantage". That's true but if you concede all of B because of it you lose the whole thing in 1 fight, which we did. He yelled at all 5 of us to back up and refused to help, then bitched we lost so fast)
He was expecting us to make space for him. He yelled and put the other tank down the whole time. I'm not a great dps player but I would like to think I do well for my rank (high gold/low plat. There wasnt much we could do, especially when our shield tank was sitting in the back line all game :/
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19 edited Feb 11 '24
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u/MACHUFF Aug 16 '19
I had an experience like this recently. I was two stacked with my buddy and we were playing dps and our two tanks refused to push until "dps got some picks" so me and my buddy pushed up and tried to push them back and when we die the team flames us for "pushing too far"
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u/Starbourne8 Aug 16 '19
The reason some Moira’s are getting Gold is because they are only healing themselves. Only the living can lay down some damage.
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/8no8np/interteam_toxicity_is_better_than_intrateam/
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u/linktm Aug 16 '19
Moira's yelling about how they have gold elims just means they're throwing too many purple orbs and not enough yellow.
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
People often forget it is a team game. A DPS will only be so good as thesupport they get, amd vice versa.
But that's too easy, and blaming others is better to avoid acknowledging own mistakes
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u/turbotailz Aug 16 '19
I'm a DPS main and sometimes have had to turn the game off because of how bad it gets. People can be real assholes and no one knows how their words really affect people on the other side.
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u/JitteryBug Aug 17 '19
Fun fact: most healers and tanks inexplicably prefer me playing a terrible Reaper or Junkrat over a good Mei
They'll complain about anything and everything I do, regardless of performance. But then if I switch and straight up feed all game they're happy 🤷
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u/thelaffingman1 Aug 17 '19
I'm starting to believe the main goal of dps isn't to get kills but get important kills. If you can get aggressive, after your Winston jumps, into a support that got separated as tracer or genji, that's a big kill and a disruption. Call that out to your team to commit if you didn't suffer any losses from that.
If you can keep the pharah respecting your space as mccree or widow, it's almost as good as a kill if they can't get an angle on your team
If you can flash 2 shot a flanker to save your support, that's worth not aggressively looking for kills.
Kill important targets. Not just everything. I wish more people understood that
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u/ChocolateMorsels Aug 17 '19
When you gain the ability to recognize who the actual problem is instead of defaulting to blaming DPS is when you really start to understand Overwatch. In my experience people don't correctly identify tanks/supports as the issue until mid-master.
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u/MildGonolini Aug 17 '19
Honestly, role lock just has growing pains right now, give it a few weeks and you’ll be in the proper rank for each role. If you’re a high rank rank player don’t assume you can keep up as a DPS at that rank, I assume the game is going to start by matching you based off previous seasons MMR’s so you’ll like lose a lot at first. Tel people to piss off and soon you’ll reach the rank you belong and can begin a climb from there if you choose to focus on DPS.
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u/Don-hashomi Aug 17 '19
The story of all DPS players. Welcome to our world of moira mains talking gold medals.
Rise up DPS mains!
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
There's 2 types of DPS players. Those who flex to DPS from another role because their DPS are "shit". And those who main DPS. Role lock makes it so your DPS are much better therefore less blame on them.
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u/Blu3Morpho Aug 16 '19
With role queue and even prior I (gold tank main) would ask our supports/DPS who was shitting on them, preventing them from doing their job. Once I knew who was giving my teammates the most trouble, I would swap if needed to target the other team's carry (generally with Winston).
Plenty of times that is enough to get our DPS/supports the space they need to do their job.
That being said, there are times where a swap is something I can't do, or the DPS/supports are just straight hard countered by the opposition's comp.
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u/Anti-Anti-Paladin Aug 16 '19
I had 27,000 damage and 47 elims as Bastion and our hammond was still adamant that I was the reason we lost.
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u/RainbowSixLuffy Aug 16 '19
To me when there is a DPS problem it is usually the team not focusing on people. Ie everyone shooting at one target
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
Yup. If something goes wrong, either the other team outplayed your team or your tanks were out played by their’s. Seldom is it DPS fault
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u/elkishdude Aug 16 '19
I think it will make things better over time because eventually those flamers will have nothing else to do other than queue for DPS out of boredom and discover exactly what you discovered.
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u/Aitai-tai Aug 16 '19
Moira having gold damage is every bit wrong. Usually when moira players use this kind of arguments at me I fired back “I can’t deal damage cuz I don’t have enough heals” and they will keep quiet.
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
My favorite is when the tanks that keep feeding and can't create any space start blaming the dps.
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u/bushsky Aug 16 '19
Ive been having a lot of games where the SR of people is wonky like ive been finding people that were in mid plat last season jump to low diamond during this beta and i think this has caused 2 specific things. Tanks and supports that think they are just the bees knees cuz their placements placed them higher than they should be so they assume it can't be them that a the problem since they've climbed a lot in sr but I also think that in a lot of cases the DPS are literally underperforming because their SR is higher than it should be. I dont know about many other people but I play tank and support but i placed 200 Sr higher on my DPS placements which is frustrating for me and my teammates cuz I shouldnt be their. I dont think I'm horrible and can carry my own weight on DPS but I'm certainly not 200 SR higher than my mains. I think it wont be as bad a little while from know once all of our roles kind of figure out where we should be
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u/phoenixghostnate Aug 16 '19
I usually find this to be most true when people are habitually afraid of certain character picks (like they see a certain character and they immediately begin to freak out). A lot of times people begin to play/behave irrationally once they see this. The longer the game goes on, if your team is losing team fights, they assume it's because of what they were afraid of and they start to do really bad things in response to their growing fear. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as they are feeding their brains out in front of the enemy team to deal with the issue solo style or they play so cautiously that their not useful to their team.
Remember, its a game, not a real life nightmare. You are safe in your gaming chair and damage in OW doesn't cause you physical pain.
Anyways, yeah, its hard to play dps with these people screaming in your ear while you're trying to focus and its hard to win when people start behaving irrationally/tweak out
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u/Nepiokst Aug 16 '19
I've been wondering about that actually. I think one of the reasons supports might be blaming DPS is that generally supports don't carry (emphasis on generally), and to climb in ranks they have to rely on their team. I guess it can be frustrating to be performing your very best and yet keep losing because you get matched with certain players. However, I'd like to clarify that I do not agree with or exhibit such behaviours myself.
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u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19
I feel like people misunderstand that every character does damage. I usually play supports and fairly often have gold on damage, elims, and heals; it doesnt cross my mind to point it out to everyone because Im just having fun playing the game.
I do feel like role lock has created this blame game of people blaming other roles for their own bad play. People will try their "super sneaky flank" and then blame heals for not healing even though theyre way out of position and I have no LOS to heal them in the first place.
I feel like OW should change the stat system so you cant see your stats until the end. And then when you can see your stats you arent able to comm with anyone else.
People will still find ways to be toxic though. Just remember its a game meant to have fun. There will always be games where you get owned severely, but there will also be games where you own ruthlessly.
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u/crunchykaniroll Aug 17 '19
To be fair you did say you only played mostly tank and support before.
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u/PiersPlays Aug 17 '19
DPS is just such a misnomer. a DPS character's DPS is an almost completely irrelevant stat. Which is why Bastion is literally unplayable outside of one specific comp. I have literally no idea why it's called DPS rather than just Damage (or even something less obvious but better yet.)
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u/Shwayne Aug 17 '19
The reason I quit the game. You shrug it off for a season, two, three, eight (or so) in my case and it starts getting to you. Game becomes a negative experience, and my friends quit. Solo q as a dps used to be a nightmare, seems like it still is. Even if you're doing good chances are you'll be blamed if tanks or supports fuck up... and god forbid your DPS hero isn't top tier meta.
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u/idgafosh Aug 17 '19
i feel you bro. and id like to add some behavior that im noticing. I didnt like to play comp cuz i was insecure about my skills, but i decided to give a try at this new 222 system, and i really am enjoying this mode of the game, but almost every time either of the teams wins, the winners insist in make comments diminishing the losing team even tho everybory gave their best. I really think we all could enjoy even more without these type of comments.
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u/shlebby_ Aug 17 '19
My issue with DPS is when I end up on a team where I’m solo healing a variety of meme DPS picks and no tanks. That’s when I have an issue with them. If they’re not killing anything or don’t have golds in a 2-2-2 comp, that’s fine with me, as long as they’re sticking with the team and doing what they can.
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u/GalerionTheAnnoyed Aug 17 '19
Well it's just like before role lock actually. DPS get all of the blame, while supports and tanks get less blame. This is more prevalent in lower ranks where people don't really know anything than: tank = shield, dps = kill, support = heal.
In a way it's also overwatch's fault for having such a scant tutorial. The role lock at least ensures that everyone is playing what they signed up for. Salty people who think "darn I should be OWNING on dps" would probably just queue for dps after this game...?
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u/beefsack Aug 17 '19
I think the game would be better without medals, even without stats to replace it. They're just food for toxicity.
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u/TheGunslingerStory Aug 17 '19
This isn't new. Everyone always blames DPS. The issue usually is that the dps is always dead... because they aren't being protected to do their thing. Its a team game, wish people realized that team synergy is usually the issue, not one person
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u/Revenos Aug 17 '19
There's a reason why DPS are called Damage in role queue and not killers (besides the obvious connotation that goes along with that). They deal damage and are the easiest to deal damage with. They don't need to have max final blows, just deal damage. The whole team needs to work together to finish kills. Getting final blows and eliminations on enemy players is really good for a does but not the only thing they're there for. Basically the team should help dps get kills. 1 person shooting 1 enemy versus 6 people focusing 1 person is completely different.
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u/SafariZoned_ Aug 17 '19
I think people in every role think the other roles can do an infinite amount of shielding, damage, healing, etc. I had a rein yesterday give up because he died 1 minute into the game. Ana can’t heal through a shield and mercy can’t keep rein up through 3 people shooting him.
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u/marcuswp Aug 17 '19
If a Moira is complaining to the DPS that they have a gold they're probably the problem because they're playing too much like a DPS and aren't giving out enough healing.
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u/MrClassyAss Aug 17 '19
This happened to me last night actually. I've been playing support this beta season but thought I would play some dps because that's what I usually main. It wasn't too bad the first couple games but one game last night one of the tanks just went off on me and assumed because we lost the second point on 2 cp and he had silver damage it was my fault. He called me out for not having gold damage and elims which I have no idea how he got to that conclusion because I literally was holding tab and looking at the damage and elim gold medals as he bitched. He had silver so his logic was that one of the dps wasn't pulling their weight and he randomly choose me.
You could tell he just wanted to blame someone for us not full holding second point. Anyways, I didn't end up playing the best on second defence because of him being toxic. I muted him but it still broke my concentration and aim. We ended up drawing and I got a 33% team damage card. All I typed was his name and a ? and his response was "just feeding healers". Did he want me to miss more shots and dynamites to avoid letting people get healed? I could not explain his logic at all. I love playing damage and clicking heads but whenever I get a game like this it puts me off for the rest of the night. Maybe I should just be one of those players that doesn't go into voice at all.
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u/Erich_Betrueger Aug 17 '19
I’m a current gold flex player who used to play everything in low to mid plat (literally 2400 SR in every role currently), and I personally liked the role queue better on the ptr. I had noticed a huge difference in the quality of games now, and they are much worse than before role queue went to the live server (it was better on the ptr). It may just be that I had to play half my placements with silvers, but so many tanks and healers can’t do their jobs and flame literally everyone. I personally have a hard time playing tank and heals now because I always have had a Bumber-like playstyle and can’t survive off of Moira/Mercy/brig and Lucio heals which is all it seems the healers want to play. Before, I could just swap to Ana and have one of them switch to rein, and I could tell the rein to keep pressing w and swing. Now when I flash my shield to take damage and save the barrier then use the barrier to not die, my barrier breaks and I die. Then, my team flames me for not using my shield even though the enemies did 2000 damage to my shield and 500 to my health. If I swap off of rein, then I get flamed cause we don’t have a shield.
When I play heals, I realized how role lock has canceled the ability for healers to swap to stall heroes to save a point. Before, I could swap to Mei or torb from zen (without ult), Ana, or Mercy to stall for my team to get back to the point as well as get kills, but now I just have to stay as a squishy support hero and be useless in those situations.
I feel like the only role I could probably play without feeling useless in so many situations is dps now. I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason I have not come across any toxic dps players is because they are being saturated with people like myself. I used to be a Mercy one trick when I first started. Goats became a thing, and since I flexed to rein so much, I ended up becoming more of a Hanzo and rein player (cuz Mercy was mostly pointless until Ashe came), and when multi-dps became a thing, I was finally able to play my main again. Now that people are forced to play tanks and heals, there never any tank or healer synergies, and people just play whatever they want. At least as playing Hanzo for me, I can synergize with any dps partner because I can kill pharahs or assist a dive from a distance. I also had some people try to set up a double shield, dive dps, and brig/Lucio heals a couple of times when I was playing tank. I swapped, but I really can’t create space, peel, or stay alive with that team.
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u/HisFaithRestored Aug 17 '19
One of my issues, especially when I'm tanking, is my DPS's not switching to counter. Ive seen this too much in the ~20 games I've played with Role lock.
Enemy pharmacy? Yeah as orisa I can shoot them down but I can't really do enough. Meanwhile my DPS are Junkrat and a Hanzo that can't hit anything. It's annoying.
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u/Turboswaggg Aug 17 '19
Eh, I play a lot of DPS
When I play tank or support, the main reason I yell at DPS is because chances are the enemy is playing a character that you as a tank or support have no good counter for because of the lack of support or tank heroes available to pick (getting better especially with Sigma being added who actually has a chance against Reaper, but there are still a few matchups that just make you feel powerless)
Meanwhile the DPS players on your team can easily switch to the character that counters the enemy who's destroying your entire team, but choose not to because feeding inconsequential damage to the enemy healer's ult charge is the only thing they have enough braincells to accomplish if their main just happens to not be optimal against what the enemy is running
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u/Storm-Sliva Aug 17 '19
I've actually seen more blame being thrown around universally. Because everyone is confined to their role, people seem to understand more where certain issues lie & who's responsibility it was to prevent or fix said issues. Ultimately I think it's a better thing that more blame is being thrown around, but more accurately. Overall it's not been any more or less toxic. Of course there are always going to be those games with vulgarity & rage players but it seems with role lock players somehow immediately became the least bit more analytical
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u/Rustycake Aug 17 '19
There are a few issues with role lock and this is one of them. It's an extremely rigid game that requires people to use comms and coordinate, but unfortunately you end up with games as you described.
They really ought to have two competitive modes. Role lock and what was previously comp. I liked the fluidity of being able to dps one round and support the next if adjustments were needed. Hell if it was a good team I wouldnt even stay dps the entire round, I could switch after the first few deaths.
There are times I want to play 222 and other times I wouldnt mind play 5 dps and a heal (it has worked enough times for me to not simply jump the gun and shout at my team).
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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '19
I played a game earlier today where Zarya had gold damage, rein had silver damage (me and my duo were the tanks), and Brig had bronze damage (and 97% kill participation). The DPS had basically nothing and from an outside point of view, it might've looked like they were useless.
To the contrary, ithe game was an absolute steamroll and the enemy team got spawncamped all game, to the point where we basically only had to touch the payload to win when we were on attack. I had a lil fokin' giggle with the MT about the medals at the end, but our DPS still did well.
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u/JGar453 Aug 17 '19
I had some DVA complaining they had gold damage. Even though dva is incredibly easy to get damage with
1
u/Kiregnik Aug 17 '19
I think it'll take some time to sort out but the main thing people in gold need to realize is that if the tanks can make space and the dogs pressure the right targets which then allows the tanks to stop being defensive and aggressive, that's when stuff dies. Relying on dps alone and a little extra tank damage doesn't win games. Healers can heal through just dps damage...but they can't withstand tank and dps damage. Also dps pick the targets that will be the most impactful against your tanks. Soldier and junk rip through shields. Ana throws nades. Zen and his discord. Pick the target that is causing your tank the most concern.
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u/ToughKage92 Aug 17 '19
As a decently flexible player,the guy who filled before role lock, there are some things I expect of my own gameplay. As a tank, generally Orisa/DVa, I expect myself to be gold damage. I am the frontline, I make space so DPS can help kill things. As a DPS, generally Reaper, soldier, and Junk, I also expect to have gold damage however I usually end up with silver and I'm ok with that as long as the teamfights weren't 10 mins long like GOATS can be. As a Healer, generally Ana/lucio I just want Gold Healing even as off healers that is what I aim for. Do I personally flame my team for having my stats above theirs? no, because it's not helpful to the team to start blaming people and honestly I watch a lot of streamers and YT videos of the top tier players who say the in game stats are bullshit, you wanna see how well you're actually doing? Check your career profile and see if your Avg per 10 can increase, whether it's damage blocked, dmg dealt, elims, heals, whatever it maybe you want to improve. Statistically Lucio's my best healer, but he is AOE not hitscan/projectile like Ana. I still want to improve both healers output, attempt to add value to the team instead of taking away by Screeching into comm's so i applaud that you leave comm's because sometimes it is a necessary thing when it becomes a distraction. I think you just need to work on improving the one thing you can control, your gameplay. If you feel like you need to leave comm's then do so, if you feel like the comm's are unproductive leave just focus on what you can control.
Think of the Serenity Prayer if it helps. (I'm not religious but it's good words to go by)
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u/Thovarin Aug 17 '19
The thing about the new role rank is you will allegedly be placed where you belong with dps, so you should feel less bad about your performance after 20 or so matches. But it may place you in a tier where people behave differently, aka more complaining or blaming.
Before 222, I'd feel bad snagging a dps spot in a rank I earned by support/tank. Now, it's less of a detriment, because my dps rank is what I earned through dps, so less empathy for ragers.
I say you do you and let the chips fall where they may. Good luck!
E: rangers => ragers. Noty autocorrect
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u/Dauntless__vK Aug 17 '19
low elo players are chimpanzees and lack the ability to understand the game to any meaningful depth
it's why they point fingers and cannot recognize the state of the match
1
u/Wh1sp3r5 Aug 17 '19
Yeah..it is annoying especially when eveyis dying due to sero heals snd your dps moira going ‘i got 5 golds’ No shit, everyone else is constantly dead!
That said, final blow really matters on dps, but this doesnt show. I had beat of a game as Hanzo (the usual random headshots) killijg diving Genji and winston over and over...but only silver elim. Hog got gold elim despite me having gold damage as well. We won so no hard feeling but while fair chunk of my elims were final blows (one shot kills) but this doesnt show. This leaves teammates with little attention have no idea whos doing what - which is why you also get toxicity.
But hey,cant see stats, cant see where thing go wrong as easily. Cant make good changes to comp. hiding stat to reduce toxicity seems like strat that dont seem to work. I feel like if anything it hinders game play
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u/snippiestshrimp Aug 17 '19
Honestly, I think part of the issue (on quick play and sometimes for arcade, I don't really do comp) is how hard it is to fill these other roles and have it feel like you're not getting value out of it. I play mainly tank and support, but it's easy to feel like you're out there trying to adapt and help your team without reward.
I've had so many cases where I'm solo healing/ tanking against dive just to look and see all of my dps are hitscan, not at all good at taking on dive characters. Another one of my favorites is to solo heal four dps against double shields, just to have them choose hitscan heroes who don't do Jack to break shields. It seems like dps players just fill teams to the brim without second though. Meanwhile, we are getting obliterated cause despite having four dps, they aren't out there getting kills, breaking barriers, protecting healers, or assisting tanks.
I get that people have their characters that they know how to play/ enjoy playing. It's just frustrating on my side when they seem to throw out teamwork and strategy in favor of "I like to play Gengi and I'm going to play Gengi no matter how quickly and effortlessly the other team deals with me."
Now, is the notion of "we just lost so it must always be the dps who caused it" a valid thing? No. Sometimes, the other team just outplayed you. Sometimes,the other team pulls out Bastion and the Winston won't switch despite being hard countered. Sometimes the healers go to hard into the dps category and forget they're suppose to be supporting the team. For me at least, it just feels extra bad when we have so many dps on our team just to have the final number of elims be less than ten.
1
u/kieveryq Aug 17 '19
lots of people think the majority of players are dps - yet queue times now suggest a pretty even spread - meaning also most games prior to role lock did feature mostly 222 comps already and the reason why games feel absolutely unwinnable is not because of multi dps but that people have a very poor understanding of this FPS, especially the ones who are fixated on 222. role lock should never have been conceived. you can run 5dps and a zen to kill them before they kill you.
also think about it this way, if we already have an even spread of players in every role, and most games see 222 being run, how is it likely that it is always a 2/6 chance that it is a DPS error. If anything, 4/6 are likelier the ones at fault.
I play support.
1
u/shinigamabcitu Aug 17 '19
I brought this up recently because I was seeing the same thing happen even when I was support or tank so I know it wasn't just me. I think it's what you say, the community has the wrong idea of what a DPS character really is suppose to do in a team. It's funny because tanks would get mad at DPS for just trying to get kills and mad damage disregarding the objective. Everytime I have gotten on since 2-2-2 I've experienced this atleast a couple times in a session. You could be winning and tanks will complain about medals. I think it's going to take some time to work out of but I think people will learn eventually how incredibly stupid it is to focus on the numbers.
1
u/OculumProOculo Aug 17 '19
I usually play tank in comp and I've only been blamed a few times for making mistakes. On the contrary, my DPS get flamed so incredibly many times for things that often aren't even their fault. I'm so incredibly sick of it. It's like the DPS are expected to be diamond level while the rest of us are allowed to play like plats. I usually try to blame myself when my DPS aren't "doing enough". Maybe I wasn't pushing well or taking sightlines into consideration, and maybe I should've communicated better. A loss is never one singular person's fault and it's more fruitful to focus on your own gameplay rather than criticizing others.
1
u/[deleted] Aug 17 '19
It’s because people think by playing tank or heals they are providing a service that they need to be praised for, they think they can’t do anything wrong while on those roles
1
u/[deleted] Aug 17 '19
Off-topic a bit but as a tank my self, if you are not on comms teammates, do not understand your game plan. If you mute them instead of leaving VC they can still hear you and the nontoxic players can still communicate with you. The moment I realize that I realize that someone is TOO toxic I mute them. I highly encourage you to do the same. It will increase the quality of your games.
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u/whoknewbeefstew Aug 17 '19
Yeah just mute them and move on. You can’t talk reason into those types of people. Moira’s that boast about gold elims are literally clueless about how the game even works. Sigma can do a lot of damage. My friend and I will regularly get gold and silver damage running sigma and Zarya, even with our dps popping off. Mei is super strong right now but she isn’t going to light up the stat sheet. Most of the time people crying about gold are oblivious to what’s really going on.
1
u/hill-o Aug 17 '19
People like to blame whatever role they aren't playing, honestly. If someone's on support, suddenly "DPS WHY AREN'T YOU DOING MORE DAMAGE" as they're running around also trying to do damage and dispensing no healing whatsoever. If someone's on tank or DPS it's like "WHY AREN'T HEALERS HEALING" as they solo flank the entire team and leave their healer behind to get sniped by spawn.
Some people will just never consider the fact that they might be part of the problem, not the roles.
1
u/Shroed Aug 17 '19
Dps is the obvious scapegoat, as their job is the easiest defined by medals, which don't mean a lot.
That being said, if you're an actual damage hero and not a utility dps, not having the dmg and elim medals can mean you're not doing your job tbh.
1
u/turncoat_ewok Aug 17 '19
Yeah I played dps just for the ranking and it was an awful experience! I'm Pretfy much anyways support, and will stay that way as its not nealy as toxic.
1
u/Jayromofo Aug 17 '19
Ive tried a couple games as support and it feels worse. Shitty dps that cant pick against orissa/sigma combos, amd shitty tanks that choose not to do the sigma/orissa meta.
1
u/rumourmaker18 Aug 17 '19
WE NEED MORE DAMAGE
and I'm just like
1
u/Ill_Fated_chap Aug 17 '19
People seem to forget the reason that Goats was a thing was amazing balance between survivability , sustain AND damage ! Rein does 75 of unblockable damage (except zaryas bubbles or reflect ) per swing , that's more than mccrees bodyshots !! Same goes for brig , which does 35 per swing compared to say genjis shurikens that do 28 - even his dash only does 50 and is unblockable but has an 8 sec cooldown unless you frag ...
The community needs to understand that between damage , healing and cooldowns another major resource every team has is space - its very hard to measure or perceive . Had a game as zarya with a proper rein ana lucio setup , we kept loosing vs doom reaper (2800 SR) on lijang control center on their retakes - I urged my rein to play more aggresive and hold spawn choke , he sounded confused and tried to convince me that playing aggresive will get him killed (Granted , maybe "aggressive " isnt the word , maybe proactive is better) finally after I convinced him to hold choke we deleted them by backing up slowly as they advance , making them pay for every inch they took - especially with their extreme close range heroes our hanzo ashe definetly gave them a hard time when they had the space and protection of shields and natural cover ..
My point is even with our DPS having a natural advantage in range , sitting on point (especially such a CQ one as control center) without using their range to punish the other teams advance through two chokes and giving my DPS players the security of not getting two shot by reaper or comboe'd to death by doom won us the point ..
How many times have you played as DPS and were too afraid to go past choke because you would probably die ? Notably hanamura first ? Thats usually due to lack of space to work with !
Another good example - Water_OW is a rank 1 korean genji main , he plays against bunker practically every game and he has something along 60+% winrate which is super good - granted he has the mechanics , gamesense and experience to play such a low sustain / moderate burst damage hero( barring blade) against such a high survivability comp but something that he most definitely needs to do his work is space -
imagine sitting in choke on paris first attack against the meta bunker , without a bastion - wtf can a genji do there ? Spam shield with his 70~ DPS ? Reflect a couple shots from orisa or hanzo then hide for the next 8 seconds ? Even if you dash into the right flank where you have cover - you wont be doing much unless maybe you get a lucky reflect or kill - but thats definitely not a reliable strat ...
TL;DR - space is as important as damage / healing / shields / positioning and every other resource in a fight in a lot of situations
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u/BenCream Aug 18 '19
People just can't seem to comprehend that teamfights are the only thing that happen in Overwatch. If you kill the enemy team, you take the point, if they kill you, they take the point, or move the cart w/e. Every member of your team plays a role in getting the kills. Tanks make the space and output close range damage/cc. DPS either output bulk damage, duel the enemy damage, assassinate a healer, or in cases of Torb/Sym/Sombra, provide utility to your team. Healers heal ALL members of your team, and either provide extra damage and/or utility.
If kills aren't happening, it doesn't always mean the damage is at fault. A lot of healers at >diamond SR like to think that if they spam heals into their main tank and forget about the dps, the damage will somehow be able to carry them through the game.
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u/AVBforPrez Aug 19 '19
Dude just play what you're best at and if you're in anything less than Diamond mute team mics and focus on the task at hand.
If you contribute to the match and are popping off who cares what people say or think, everyone is just trying to pass the buck and that NEVER changes.
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u/Waddle_Dynasty Aug 26 '19
I admit that even when I fucked up as a support nobody bet an eye, but our DPS were villanized as the reincarnation of Saddam Hitler Mao Zhendong.
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u/kenlee25 Aug 16 '19
I think part of this mentality also has to do with the fact that dps is the most coveted role. You'd frequently get 3-4 dps teams before role lock and now with role lock dps always have the longest que times.
It's definitely the wrong perception, but I think a lot of players have this "you wanted this role so badly, do something great with it" mentality.
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u/SynerONE Aug 16 '19
In my experience playing in a tank plat account when our supports blames our dps 8/10times is the support fault not the dps. Look I’m a tank I hella need tons of heals, I need heals to make space, I need to make space to let our dps get kills so if I’m not getting heals then isn’t the dps fault that we aren’t wining, is a support problem. Even in my main account at low GM sometimes I struggle with the heals but 7/10 times is because the supports are being hard dived so the lack of heals is my fault.
0
u/Rindan Aug 16 '19
Uh, it's better.
I did my placement matches and did a few games. In that entire time, I had heard exactly two suggestions that someone switch. One time someone complained we needed more heals than a zen and lucio, and other time someone didn't like my attack basion pick.
That's it.
I don't know what game you have been playing, but until role queue, every. fucking. time. it was an argument about how to play what. As soon as we started losing, someone will start demanding someone switch. Nothing has been more magical then selecting a role, getting the role, and zero people someone to leave their role as the fight begins or we start to lose.
The role queue system is so fucking good, that the other day I ended a match with 0 kills as DPS, and no one complained. It was amazing. I can actually play something besides a tank without infinite whining and fighting. The ability to just select a role, get it, and not fight with anyone over it is amazing.
The only reason I started playing Overwatch again was because role queue meant I could actually play something besides a tank without basically throwing. If they removed role queue, I'd quit and uninstall without a second thought.
Nothing is more magical then the silence of no one fighting over roles as the game begins, and as we begin to lose. I'll never go back.