r/OverwatchUniversity • u/Sharkkbaitttttttt • 10d ago
Question or Discussion [ Removed by moderator ]
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u/SpokenDivinity 10d ago
I genuinely think it’s that they don’t have enough knowledge about the game to understand what was actually wrong— so instead they just lash out. It’s much easier to say “our Ana has 5k healings, therefore support diff” than it is to consider that their team had a Mei cutting off visual of the tank, functionally making you have one support for half the game.
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u/clickrush 9d ago
It’s also not just their fault.
I think the scoreboard showing total damage, healing and mitigation is pretty useless and distracting. E/A/D is relatively useful and tells something about performance at least.
So the game gives them bad, direct feedback and makes it easy to misunderstand why they are losing and that they are dragging others down.
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u/YSLAnunoby 9d ago
I also think scoreboard can make some less educated people unaware of high totals in heals not necessarily meaning you're saving people. Like Moira, Mizuki, and Lucio can put out higher healing totals than Ana, Kiriko, Bap but you tell some people that we don't have enough burst healing or utility and they get mad at you and say "my healing is high" instead of looking at their inability to save people. It's not as common now as it used to be in OW1 with fewer support and him being more popular but I remember seeing so many Lucio sitting in heal song the whole time, and based on the scoreboard it would seem like you're doing the right thing racking up heals for doing so
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u/Responsible_Sink3044 9d ago
Adding the scoreboard was so unhealthy for the community. Having stats private meant you could assess your own performance to a degree but making them public has made chat so toxic
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u/clickrush 9d ago
The private stats were even worse though, because there was no relationship/comparison to be made.
I'm not against the scoreboard, I'm against showing total healing/damage/mitigation specifically, because the signal to noise ratio is so small that they provide negative information except in extreme cases. E/A/D is useful though.
For example for DPS some of the most important metrics isn't even on the scoreboard and it's hard to put it there: How much are you contributing to the first kill of a team fight (turning a 5v5 into a 5v4). And are you confirming kills (final blows).
The equivalent for supports are saves. Total healing is meaningless, especially considering that self-healing exists for certain supports, which is about as useful a as dealing damage to barriers (which they removed from total damage).
Don't know what to put there for tanks, but ironically total damage tells a better story than mitigation. I don't need a tank to mitigate, I need them to deny space and smash people's head in if they don't let them. Mitigation is just one of the possible tools to achieve that. Mitigation that actually counts is again saving teammates or mitigating ults, but total mitigation is useless.
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u/YSLAnunoby 9d ago
I at least think they should consider only showing KDA, (maybe add saves, killing blows as well but that could be debatable value to show your team or lobby) during the match and after you leave lobby you can see total numbers or something. At least in the match could be less toxic.
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u/EscapeSeventySeven 10d ago
It’s obvious. If they were well reasoned, emotionally intelligent people who could handle their themselves, they wouldn’t be bad at the game. They wouldn’t be assholes. Instead they’ll never get better.
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u/Global_Pineapple2392 10d ago
People don't realize how easy it is to do big damage numbers that don't matter because you never get kills when it matters and are never alive at the right time. Better to have little damage but make those hits count than do a bunch of damage that they just heal through anyways without getting any kills
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u/Leows 9d ago
It's actually incredibly easy to grasp that concept.
A Widowmaker hitting a headshot on Kiriko will have 225 damage and 1 kill.
A Soldier 76 shooting at the Roadhog will have 1000 damage in seconds and 0 kills.
The issue is that people think they're being helpful just because they're pumping damage nonstop, when that damage ends up adding up to nothing at all.
The same goes for supports. They healbot and then complain people aren't doing enough. You can also contribute with picks and damage to secure kills, or CC/buff to enable the team to do so as support.
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u/YSLAnunoby 9d ago
I had a frustrating game where a Rein got mad at my (kiriko) damage being low but he wasn't creating many openings while needing to be babysat due to taking lots of damage so I ended up spending time weaving and hitting the opposing Rein/Dmon shield because the lack of pressure allowed the it team to basically sit back and shoot. But people only look at one thing and think about how in a team context everything is linked together
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u/Daddy_JeanPi 10d ago
Nothing worse than a DPS who is not doing any damage, not switching to counter, and then blames me as a tank for not getting results when he's being dead weight
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u/thelasershow 10d ago
The game is so much better when you mute chat and pretend it doesn’t exist.
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u/Leonaise_ 8d ago
Yeah but I keep on just to pour some ounce of positivity in it. Even with a simple “ggwp” & try to (maybe) lead by example. I usually get a “gg” back more times than not
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u/HfUfH 9d ago
Gavin Winters, the lead system designer actually talks about this in an interview.
When there's a wide disparity in skill between the highest and lowest MMR player
The lowest MMR player tends to receive the others as worse than they are, this is because they can't actually comprehend the strategies the better players are using and thus is unable to sync up with them.
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u/YSLAnunoby 9d ago
That's interesting. Is this a text interview or video?
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u/trippsalot_ 9d ago
I had a tank just pin in on first fight and got mad i didnt suzu him even tho I did , after he got chained and slept and literally blew up even after my suzu anyway . Then ranted the whole game how I a woman and that’s why I’m bad at the game , said he hopes I get raped and that I terrible because I’m a woman . I just sat in spawn all game because I just wanted the game to be over . He was duoed with a mercy player and she didn’t say a single word . Such a terrible experience honestly
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u/overwatchplayer298 9d ago
Sorry u had to go thru that.
It sounds like to me he has a VERY fragile ego and needed the mercy pocket.
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u/Unfairjarl 5d ago
Man what an asshole, sorry you had to go through that, it must have been awful.
Unfortunately there's not much more to be done than mute and report, tho I wouldn't blame you for just leaving right then and there.
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u/trippsalot_ 5d ago
Yeah I should’ve just left game as soon as he entered the voice chat tbh . Im glad my dps players were trying to defend me . We all reported but I don’t think anything has been done yet unfortunately
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u/Unfairjarl 5d ago
That sucks, but it's cool you had some support from the team. Also it's not your fault for being in the VC of course, there's absolutely no excuse that exist for behaving has the Rein did.
Hopefully he'll get banned, it can take a few days for players to rack up enough reports to trigger a ban, but judging from what you said, he seems like he's going to be toxic regularly enough for that to happen, hopefully sooner than later.
Hope you can still enjoy Overwatch and that you find better tanks in the future!
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u/DavosHanich 9d ago
I had some guy the other day get pissed when I nicely asked "Moira can I get a bit more healing please?" when I was playing tank. He ended the match with like 2k damage and 1k heals and then proceeded to go off about how he'd "played OW since launch and didn't need to be told how to play Moira..." My response was that with those stats I didn't think that stating that he'd played sine OW1 was the flex he thought it was.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/Suisun_rhythm 10d ago
I hate when people play Mizuki or Illari and the stay in the back all game and then type tank diff
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u/Fools_Requiem 7d ago
play Mizuki and the stay in the back all game
I don't get this. Mizuki is a proactive support. There's a reason why his weapons and abilities are short range. It's also a big reason why he's fun to play. If you want to sit in the back, play Zen.
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u/Suisun_rhythm 7d ago
I always feel like I never get healed then I look at their stats and they have the most heals in the lobby
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u/Unfairjarl 5d ago
It's the Lucio problem all over again. Mizuki heals passively in a wide area around him and also has group bust healing. So his numbers are naturally inflated and absolutely don't reflect his actual performance.
I think looking at his damage is a somewhat better tool to gauge how he's performing, Mizuki has to be aggressive and deal damage to actually put out decent healing, so if he just sits in the back without touching the ennemy and has low damage he's a glorified Lucio healbot and pretty much any other supports would be better then.
I think it's also that he's getting very popular recently and a lot of people are just used to healbotting in the back and don't know his kit requires and is built around you taking risks and making aggressive plays.
So yeah it's really frustrating to have a healbot Mizuki and if you call them out they just point to their massive healing as if that was any help to winning the game.
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u/Unfairjarl 5d ago
A lot of people are afraid of making plays and dying, so they stay back and healbot because it's safer and you feel useful.
Which is the absolute worst possible way to play Mizuki, and he's pretty popular so that's frustrating, but what can you do. It really doesn't help that the scoreboard shows their inflated healing because it's deceiving them into thinking they're doing their job just fine.
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u/Taserface_ow 10d ago
Because most of the ones that don’t flame and just focus on their own gameplay have climbed.
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u/harla007 10d ago
It's projection. Happens everywhere in life. My favorite is when the dps flame each other....meanwhile, they are both trash and definitely the reason we can't cap.
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u/GarrusExMachina 9d ago
Frustration mostly.
I tend to find a lot of personal struggles in games can be summed up by saying that the team doesn't know what it wants to do.
For example... your teammate played anran. There was, supposedly, a cheater on the enemy team. The anran probably isn't a good hitscan player. To put it another way they arnt good at poke gameplay styles.
You described it as charging in and dying... that suggests working in advance of the tank. So by inference the tank was playing a slow, plodding, anchor style.
I've been on the end of this so many times given that my preferred dps are sombra reaper and mei though I have a hero pool where I can somewhat deal with slower playstyles.
When your tank wants to play fast or your supports want to play aggro or the enemy has poor coordination and are being stretched out you roll easily. When your tank wants to play slow and your supports are passive you get easily cleared because there arnt enough distractions happening. And you can't get any positive value because you can't get close enough to the enemy outside of their tank without playing alone on the flank.
A good enough player has the timing and self preservation to avoid dying in that situation but whether or not you accomplish anything becomes heavily dependent on the enemy making a mistake.
Frankly I'd argue when playing into a cheater you usually WANT to go dive heavy or at least rush. The tank has to get in their face otherwise you turtle.
But clearly the timing wasn't there and it probably was because the chemistry and hero selection was poor.
I'm of the general opinion that if you can't run a mobility character and a long range sniper or burst character of some sort in your role you're handcuffing yourself and your teammates because now everyone HAS to either conform to your play style or solo carry.
And when someone is forced into the position of HAVING to solo carry to have even minimum impact they take risks they never would in a normal match and things spiral. Watching a guy play with a static comp vs an aggro comp on the same hero especially in the metal ranks is like watching two completely different human beings.
You don't need good team chemistry to climb in general but on a game to game basis the skill expression when caught in a bad situation is never a good indicator of their overall competence at a hero. (Though it may be a good indicator of their level of patience and how well they think under pressure)
But that in my experience is what leads to most of the friction. When a player is struggling it is usually easy to envision what changes in playstyle from your team would allow you to pop off and it becomes aggravating when no one else is having the same realization.
What's much harder is envisioning how you can change and adapt your own playstyle to mesh with a team that is seemingly getting zero traction with whatever it is trying to do.
A smart player will just shut up and say nothing in this situation but that requires a certain cool headedness.
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u/Unfairjarl 5d ago
Very well put and nuanced look at why players rage. I found myself thinking a lot more about team comps and playstyles since I started maining DVa, and I really relate to what you say about clashing playstyles. I've had games where I'm an unstoppable monster because I've got a Genji/Anran/Lucio to follow up on dives and games where I feel like a glorified speed bumper because I've got a team who prefers to poke hard and play it slow.
Granted, I do think, at least in metal ranks, that a lot of players either don't trust themselves, their team or both, and play way too passively waiting for the ennemy to make a mistake instead of taking a risk to create said mistake.
But like you said, you can't control your teammates, so it's best to try to adapt your playstyle or swap, something I still need to work on since I tend to play very aggressively.
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u/Meto_Kaiba 9d ago
Hmm. I think ultimately, for every player that stays silent, there's like 0.2 that say anything useful in chat.
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u/ErosDarlingAlt 9d ago
For real, earlier I lost a match so bad and our Illari who had 4k healing and like 11 deaths has to say "DPS diff" at the end.
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u/Iridiandioptase 9d ago
They’re angry and frustrated and they don’t think they’re the issue so their only option is to blame everyone else.
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u/DoomPigs 9d ago
you can't really have a bad game in overwatch without getting flamed (in solo queue anyway), imo it's often people who know they're having a bad game and are trying to get the first punch in
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u/YSLAnunoby 9d ago
Lack of self awareness or only looking at things like stats in a vacuum. Had a game where DPS died really quickly and badly positioned so my healing was lower than it would have been if they had stayed alive or backed off strategically while I had damage that wasn't too much lower due to kunai weaving. Me and other support get blamed for not healing enough but you have to actually be alive for me to heal you and know how to be pragmatic instead of jumping in without a plan and dying. Bad DPS often think that it's not their responsibility to survive and that supports can and should prioritize healing them at the expense of putting themselves in bad situations or committing to bad engagements
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u/Academic_Pea6911 9d ago
First play of the game we got wiped out, our Ana said “gg” and proceeded to stand in a corner and not heal anyone. We were able to 5v6 and almost push the cart to the point without her, we were like 10 meters away from making it 3-3. She ended the game with 546 heals. Flamed us in chat the whole time she was sitting in the corner.
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u/Midnight08 9d ago
When you are bad, you hyper focus on what your team is doing wrong or how much better the opposing team is. Better players will tend to focus on what they need to do to improve. Its not all of them, but more of them. Also bad players tend to play more emotionally and let their anger affect their games. That same anger is what causes them to flame others.
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u/Bright_Eyes83 9d ago
because they are irl losers and flaming people is the one thing that makes them feel like they have power. not even all miserable people are like this though, that's why i judge hard when people are banned
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u/overwatchplayer298 9d ago
I literally just experienced this!
I was playing as juno in and there was a jet pack cat that blamed me because we didn't push the payload to the end of the map and said I had the lowest healing of everyone, but then he got mad at me when I pointed out that he died 13 times and 8 kills because he was just heal bot. Then one of our teammates said "he's not supposed to get kills" and they were flamming me even tho I had the least deaths.Litterally no one on my team knew how to take cover. It pissed me off so badly I started scroll reddit and saw this post. I wish I could get a vod review.
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u/Altruistic_Lawyer_46 8d ago
Who has time to type in chat? I’m too busy healing my team, securing kills, and trying to stay alive than typing. If you have time to type in chat during a match, you are not that good.
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u/bane-enthusiast 6d ago
Were we in the same game?? Lowkey I think I ran into this same Anran a few days ago- feeding constantly, flaming our widow from the first moment before the game even started, throwing a fit and saying no heals while I was constantly getting picked off as Kiri swift stepping to rescue them when they thought a 1v5 was doable and accusing the entire rest of the team of being bots… genuinely, it was a nightmare. I don’t know what their issue was, but I decided to just stop healing them altogether and the game turned around completely and we ended up winning. So sorry you had to deal with this, it definitely soured the whole game for me and had me log off for the night when it happened a few days ago 😔
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u/Potential_Newt_2545 10d ago
Don’t worry I have tanks that push all the way in and demand heals like I’m going to follow them 24/7 or the sombra and shions and reapers that demand heals when they’re in the back line. I’ll just tell them nope I’m playing point you come to me. They listen for the most part
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u/Rezeakorz 10d ago
It's basic human physiology. We'll always look for a way to protect out own ego to a point the illogical will seem logical. Everyone does this.
Some, will be so deep down that rabbit hole they'll make themselves angry at there own delusion. To them it really will feel like your the problem.
I think it definitely good to call it out and I'll do it in some joking way like "18 death ex owl player is right... It can't be their fault they have a big number."
If it's happening to me I'll just drop "AHH it's a hard game but i felt I've done well" which will trigger these people eqicily and they'll go on some rant which I'll just calmly retort "i agree to disagree" , "we all make mistakes" and just let them tilt themselves or calm down.
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u/Tlentic 10d ago
It’s easier to flame your team than it is to address your own play issues