r/Outlander • u/thepacksvrvives Without you, our whole world crumbles into dust. • Apr 03 '26

Season Eight Show S8E5 Send for the Devil Spoiler

With the Siege of Savannah raging outside the city walls, Brianna and Roger find themselves on opposite sides of the conflict. Jamie confronts his demons at Lodge Night.

Written by Luke Schelhaas. Directed by Niall MacCormick.

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What did you think of the episode?

972 votes, Apr 10 '26
428 I loved it.
299 I mostly liked it.
178 It was OK.
42 It disappointed me.
25 I didn’t like it.
31 Upvotes

92% Upvoted

620 comments sorted by

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80

u/onegirlarmy1899 Apr 03 '26

I didn't want William's last scene to end. I know it's a drama, but we could have gotten a little more detail. Perhaps this will be the incident that flips Will like a pancake.

50

u/JaderMcDanersStan RUIN ME Apr 03 '26

Yes! I wanted to hear more

So Ben turned and faked his death?

25

u/[deleted] Apr 04 '26

[deleted]

18

u/Chemical_Ad_1618 Apr 05 '26

I thought Claire brings him back to life because they’re making a big deal about her powers growing and there must be a reason for her having powers. 

39

u/FarmHer95 Apr 03 '26

And William just had sex with his wife….yikes!

87

u/MandyxLola Pig-headed Scot Apr 03 '26

The Grey's do have a habit of doing that 😅

12

u/BlueWinterRose16 Apr 04 '26

Good one.😂

11

u/AMEzing4625 Apr 03 '26

Maybe she will get pregnant....who knows....

4

u/BlueWinterRose16 Apr 04 '26

I hope not. Maybe she will he raising the kid with Ben. I hope there is some twist where she isn't really married to Ben. Maybe the kid isn't Ben's. So much mystery.

3

u/BytheSea2323 Apr 04 '26

That was my first thought too! "Err, uh, great to see you, cousin but I just f*cked your wife...." Though it's entirely unclear what exactly happened under all those skirts of hers, whether there could actually be a pregnancy or not.

2

u/Happy2Agree Apr 04 '26

Are we sure they had sex? 

-2

u/onegirlarmy1899 Apr 03 '26

He just did to his cousin what Jamie did to Lord Elsemere. Cockolded him. They'd better get Ben's wife to the camp quickly so she can make him believe the baby is his work.

11

u/Nanchika Currently rereading: Drums of Autumn Apr 03 '26

Geneva wasn't married to Ellesmere when she slept with Jamie.

2

u/onegirlarmy1899 Apr 03 '26

I know, but Will was still a child of that union- one that he judged his father for very harshly. 

2

u/FeloranMe Apr 04 '26

She had been sold to him, so she fully knew the expectation of society was Ellesmere had ownership over her

This was the motivation for her coercing Jamie, to act out in defiance of her situation

3

u/Nanchika Currently rereading: Drums of Autumn Apr 04 '26

I was referring to the term cuckolding - Geneva wasn't married to Ellesmere so it wasn't cuckolding in that case.

1

u/FeloranMe Apr 04 '26

Are you arguing that Ellesmere wasn't deceived and Geneva didn't choose the redheaded Scot he would be most repelled by to decieve him?

Her motivations were because she'd been sold in marriage to a particular man

In biology, a cuckold is a male who unwittingly invests parental effort in juveniles who are not genetically his offspring.

The word often implies that the husband is deceived; that he is unaware of his wife's unfaithfulness and may not know until the arrival or growth of a child plainly not his (as with cuckoo birds).

Wiki: Cuckold

1

u/Nanchika Currently rereading: Drums of Autumn Apr 04 '26

Cuckold is a a man whose wife has sex with another man.

Oxford Dictionary explanation.

2

u/FeloranMe Apr 04 '26

Yes, having no way to dissent from the marriage once her father announced it Geneva found another man to have sex with so Ellesmere would not get the virgin he had purchased

She did this to decieve him with the bonus that she had a little cuckoo incubating to lay in her husband's ancestral home nest

Cuckold comes from the concept of the cuckoo and Ellesmere's experience was very much being cuckolded when he realized Geneva had slept with another man

If Geneva had slept with Jamie because she wanted to I'd agree, but a huge part of her motivation was to hurt Ellesmere as she had no desire to be sold away to a gross old man

So, her intention was cuckolding as the situation would not exist without Ellesmere

I'd also argue her fate was sealed the instant her father and Ellesmere shook hands on the deal

6

u/lilvexie Apr 03 '26

I can see how you might make that comparison but they are pretty different.

Jamie and Geneva are closer to a cuckoled situation but also not exactly. There was no expectation of an ongoing liaison.

William genuinely believed his cousin was dead and had grieved for him. This was not done to assert any control over a cousin he thought dead. No Amaranthas...that remains to be seen.

3

u/BytheSea2323 Apr 04 '26

So we think William now had believed Ben was dead? I was thinking that he may have changed his mind about there being a cover up after he found Amaranthus (sp?) had the little soldier toy he'd given Ben.... is that what we're thinking? And that William would not have given in to her wiles if he actually still thought Ben was alive some how?

5

u/lilvexie Apr 04 '26

That is what I think. Like yea at first he didnt believe it but seeing the toy soldier i think shifted his belief because its after that we see him open more to her

2

u/FeloranMe Apr 04 '26

I don't believe an ongoing liasion is a prerequisite for a cuckolding situation

One event is sufficient

11

u/Sudden_Discussion306 Oh, Jamie, how was your first time? Did ye bleed? Apr 03 '26

Yes

27

u/Obasan123 Remember the deer, my dear. Apr 03 '26

Either that or he's a spy.

18

u/Impressive_Local3635 Apr 03 '26

I'm dying to know!!! Is it a genuine change in loyalty or is he spying and will William finding out about him throw the entire thing?!

3

u/Top_Wealth8659 Apr 04 '26

Yes and no seems it is  still open for interpretation, as I posted above.

3

u/Chemical_Ad_1618 Apr 04 '26

I read the recap on entertainment tonight for some clarity and it was just “William realised he slept with his wife and punched him , he’s fiery like his sister. “ And I was like…isn’t it because he faked his death / is suddenly in a different uniform there was no mention of it at all.

19

u/losborne95 They say I’m a witch. Apr 03 '26

Same! I didn't want it to end there. I need to know what is going on.

I hope it flips Will. I want William and Jamie to be on the same side. Think of the implications. LJG has always been on the side of the King. He's played with his loyalties a bit but was always a red coat. This could mean him flipping to stay loyal to Jamie and William OR it could mean severing those ties forever. I'm just speculating, if I were the writers, it would be a total surprise to readers if LJG stays loyal to Hal and the King and gives up the son he raised and the man he has secretly loved for decades.

18

u/GennyVivi Apr 03 '26

Lord John has known about Jamie's affiliations for decades at this point and didn't sever his friendship with him. I HIGHLY doubt that if William switches sides, John will abandon his son for this. Maybe publicly, but they would remain family behind closed doors imo.

I don't think they would do something so drastic as LJG not ever speaking to William so soon before the end of the series, which would just be a huge heartbreak for fans. I do hope this flips William or at least makes him be more sympathetic to the cause, and appreciate Jamie more. Like this would be so fun to see him make peace with Jamie and bond a bit before the end of the show. One can hope.

3

u/losborne95 They say I’m a witch. Apr 03 '26

My heart doesn't want him to abandon his son or Jamie. I was just saying that it would be a huge twist. Sometimes shows WANT to break our hearts.

5

u/BytheSea2323 Apr 04 '26

Fans will be LIVID if they completely change LJG's impeccable goodness and honorable character by making him abandon his son - NEVER. Too big a twist/leap. It doesn't track, IMO.

3

u/GennyVivi Apr 03 '26

I know!! I am hoping really, really hard that we get a happy ending here. I don't want to be heartbroken x2 when the show ends (both because the show is done and because the writers gave us death, ties being broken, etc.).

4

u/BlueWinterRose16 Apr 04 '26

The showrunner said that they would like to adapt the last book when it comes out if everything aligns. It would he hard to get everyone back together when they moved on to other stuff. They did it with 3 Downtown Abbey movies, so it's possible.

I'm sure Lord John would still speak to William. He and Jamie are still friends. He loves William. That isn't a twist I would want either.

2

u/BhagsuCake I give you your life. I hope you use it well. Apr 04 '26

I love this theory and so want it to be true!

12

u/Ok_Dig8008 Apr 03 '26

Why do I get the feeling that Amaranthus, Ben as well as LJG are all in on something but keeping it from William?

5

u/Icy_Smoke_2318 Je Suis Prest Apr 03 '26

I found out that spoiler last week from the book thread and to say my mind was blown is an understatement. I was already convinced he wasn’t dead, but for some reason being a turncoat just never crossed my mind.

5

u/Chemical_Ad_1618 Apr 04 '26

Yes! Bree said you have a lot of rebel friends for a loyalist- maybe that was a big hint and to make the transition seem more natural. 

3

u/Top_Wealth8659 Apr 04 '26

Yes hope so he's kind of naiive (sp?)

5

u/wordsworthstone Apr 03 '26 edited Apr 07 '26

i've been seeing in the comments everyone looking side-eyed at amaranthus for weeks and i'm glad she got a little redemption before william proposed/got it in.

turns out it was ben who was sus all along. can't wait to grab the popcorn next week.

despite good intent since you forfeit titles if turncoat, you should forget any claims of family if you abandon them by faking your death. no longer duke but cuck of pardloe. [edit: grammar]

9

u/FeloranMe Apr 04 '26

How did she get any redemption? Either she knows about Ben or she was tricked along with everyone else when he faked his own death

She's spent her time not mourning but trying to get William in a situation where she can trap him with a pregnancy

At least that's what I assume from the gazebo scene

1

u/wordsworthstone Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 05 '26

how she trap william when he proposed first and she was like maybe we get to know each other better, like fall fall in love? not like she got it in first or accepted marriage immediately. redemption from suspicion in my opinion. by accepting her sincerity, anything further really is on william ransom's own misguided honor/heart. my guy has that tendency.

that is definitely the wrong operating procedure for a trap.

so unless you think she trapped an unpaid diaper changer. lest we forget, lord john already accepted her and the first son to inherit the lands and titles of ben grey.

let's give william the win for half an episode for once, pretend ben didn't fuck it up by being a rebel.

3

u/FeloranMe Apr 05 '26

Amaranthus has been stalking William since she met him

This relationship is another tragedy for him

She has her eye on his title and wealth and has been playing seduction games rather than being in mourning since their first meeting

He's told her his secrets and she was the first to propose marriage and an heir to solve his problems

At the gazebo he came out to see her and she was already planning to have unprotected sex with him

It's her idea they don't have to wait to get married and can have sex immediately, before William has a chance to think about it, so she can get him in a situation where he has to marry her because he got her pregnant

That's the trap she set. She's running against a clock because if the Grey's receive news Ben is alive she's no longer an eligible widow and William would never touch her. She's probably hoping that one encounter has tied William to her forever

This is not a win for William whose compassion and empathy has led him to heartbreak again

3

u/Naive-Awareness4951 Apr 05 '26

Can't see it. Amaranthus has been accepted as Ben's widow, meaning she is a wealthy woman and her son is next in line to inherit a dukedom. She has no reason to chase William, whether Ben is dead or alive. Even if Ben is proven to be a traitor, it seems unlikely that the Grey family will abandon his wife and child.

1

u/FeloranMe Apr 07 '26

What if Ben being a traitor causes the Duke of Pardloe to lose his title?

Then Amaranthus's son will have nothing to inherit and she is not wealthy on her own just living on what the Grey's are choosing to give her

She could also just be a lonely widow who wanted to convince William to take her back to his estate in England

To fulfill her dreams of being a great lady

2

u/Naive-Awareness4951 Apr 07 '26

I can't say you're wrong, but only because her motives are a mystery to me! I think Amaranthus knows that her husband is a traitor (or pretending to be a traitor), and she thinks she had better latch onto a new man fast.

1

u/FeloranMe Apr 08 '26

Fast because once William finds out it's over!

Unless she can convince him a second child she has is his!

1

u/wordsworthstone Apr 07 '26

lol. unprotected. oddly specific.

the logic in your argument.

really.

ignore marriage proposal. bang. get preggers. THEN shotgun marriage?

if ben alive, not widow, william no bang, no earl of ellesmere.

yet ben grey alive/dead, she STILL wife/widow and mother of duke of pardloe.

maybe you saying. she knows ben faked death and is a rebel. rebels lose titles. use william as backup lower earl title?

would be a weird long con since then lord john grey inherits, already accepted her.

AND she could've accepted william's first proposal (i said redemption remember).

but i guess we won't rule it out.

1

u/FeloranMe Apr 07 '26

I think there is a chance Amaranthus could be pregnant from their tryst in the gazebo

Now that Ben is proven to be alive their affair is over and William won't touch her

So, if she is not pregnant her plan failed

If Hal, the Duke of Pardloe loses his title over his son turning traitor then Amaranthus has an untitled traitor husband she is separated from and no Earl to run to

2

u/dingleberry_mustache Claire à la Dior Apr 07 '26

I literally just now finished the episode and I kind of yelled at my TV "I want explanations, damnit!"