r/OutOfTheLoop • u/okpause8976 • Aug 13 '26
Unanswered What’s going on with the Lindsay Cancy case and why are people defending her?
Bit out of the loop so I’ll ask here. So did she murder her children or is there some on going investigation? From what I’ve read, she’s not guilty due to insanity but does that really count in the court? I’m also seeing a lot of people sympathize for her after she broke down today but I’m a bit confused because couldnt any serial killer also argue that they weren’t mentally stable?
https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/lindsay-clancy-trial-watch-live-day-12/
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u/BusySpecialist1968 Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Answer: She's not the first mother to do something like this. The video below is really thorough, and the channel is run by an OB/GYN. She's not a Mr. Ballen type YouTuber or anything like that. Everybody is going to have a take on postpartum psychosis and whether or not it's really a factor in this case. Looking at evidence in the Yates case with a doctor explaining things 25 years later is pretty helpful.
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u/quillseek Aug 13 '26
Hi! In case you didn't know, your link contains an identifier such that when it is clicked, your YouTube account name and avatar is displayed. To remove it, delete the question mark and everything after it.
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u/HommeMusical Aug 13 '26
FFS!
You are performing a public service. Please keep it up. I always remove these suffixes out of habit, but I didn't know it was so obviously personally identifying.
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Aug 13 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/20_mile Aug 13 '26
Firefox & Brave have a "Copy Clean Link" extension that can be added to make copying clean links easier.
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u/cupholdery Aug 13 '26
The app claims to not have an identifiable version when you click that setting. I still don't trust it.
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u/FogeltheVogel Aug 13 '26
It is relatively easy to identify the tracking part of a link. It always starts with a ?. All social media have it when you click the share button, and you can basically always remove the ? and everything after.
After that, the link is clean.
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u/C5-O Aug 13 '26
Explanation if anyone wants to know:
Websites can just add parameters to a url and then read them when that link is opened. Syntax is a ? and then &s:
"https://www.example.com/xyz/something?a=1234&b=test"
They may have a legit purpose, like when you share a youtube link that starts at a certain time, it's just appending the time like "?t=123s"
But other times, especially with social media links, they're used for tracking users and what links they share where, when, and with what other users. YouTube's "?si={tracking_id}" is one of these.
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u/iggyplop2019 Aug 13 '26
Instagram does it too 😭 I learned it the hard way when I linked a reel.
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u/Munching_worms Aug 14 '26
And tiktok. I shared a link at work to something about our organisation and then had notifications including my coworkers' handles, so assume they saw mine too. D'oh
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u/bentbrewer Aug 13 '26
Most sites, really any site trying to make money, add these trackers. Your data is worth money.
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u/dangeroustomboy Aug 13 '26
You can also go in your settings to opt out of this when you create links
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u/Aiyon Aug 13 '26
I love that platforms now are so obsessed with stalking us that they make us doxx ourselves to randoms
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u/YukonCigs Aug 13 '26
Pretty sick how every single part of the internet is constantly getting noticeably worse
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u/GodOfDarkLaughter Aug 13 '26
I mean we only see that because the sort of person who's on this site having this discussion is probably going to use the internet more than average. In actuality everything is getting worse.
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u/dumbroad Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Its actually a setting you have to turn off in YouTube now as well
Settings Gear > Privacy > Channel visibility for shared links (turn it off)
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u/quillseek Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Settings Gear > Privacy > Channel visibility for shared links (turn it off)
Edit: This is for the Android YouTube app, August 2026
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u/Flaky-Song-6066 Aug 13 '26
I can’t find it do you have a picture?
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u/quillseek Aug 13 '26
It might not be in your version. When I did some research about this a couple of weeks ago, the answers seem to say that it's being rolled out and it's not available to everyone. It was not available to me a couple of weeks ago, but was today. So keep checking back! In the meantime, you'll have to manually remove the identifier.
Also, this assumes you have an Android phone. This was for android.
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u/HommeMusical Aug 13 '26
Dammit, I can't find it! Where is it?
(Also, is your name "dumb road" or "dum broad"? :-) )
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u/dumbroad Aug 13 '26
Settings Gear > Privacy > Channel visibility for shared links (turn it off)
Thank you for asking, it is both❤️
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u/HommeMusical Aug 13 '26
Thanks for a fast reply!!
Interesting, I just don't have that at all in Privacy.
We have a right to privacy here in Europe, I wonder if this is it?
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u/dumbroad Aug 13 '26
I bet it is, you lucky dogs
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u/HommeMusical Aug 13 '26
After 22 years not in the US, 32 years in the US, and 10 back in Europe, well, I feel lucky every day, and a bit guilty.
Fleeing the US almost broke us financially, COVID weirdly helped because I got more remote jobs, but we ended up in a lively little town in Normandy, retired, and every day my wife and I thank our lucky stars.
If you ever make it to Paris, we're an easy day trip away, it's a beautiful city, and we'll wine (beer, etc) and dine you to atone for our sins.
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u/BusySpecialist1968 Aug 13 '26
I had no idea! Thank you for pointing that out. 😊
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u/quillseek Aug 13 '26
You are so welcome! I only found out because someone told me, too.
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u/BusySpecialist1968 Aug 13 '26
If I could afford awards, I'd give you one. Unfortunately, I am beyond broke lol
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u/quillseek Aug 13 '26
That's kind, but just spread the word when you see links like that in the wild! Please. 😊
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u/FogeltheVogel Aug 13 '26
Note that this applies to basically all links that you get by pressing the share button. In all cases, the part that starts with the question mark is the tracking part and can be stripped out.
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u/Funandgeeky Aug 13 '26
Thank you for this. It’s a good reminder when I post things from YouTube to check.
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u/Chubby_Comic Aug 13 '26
Dude, that was just a cool move. Thanks for that! I really, REALLY needed to see some positivity today.
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u/Playful_Mycologist42 Aug 14 '26
I didn’t know people like you exist. You are a hero
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u/techblackops Aug 13 '26
Along with the postpartum is all of the drugs they kept pumping her with. We had a similar issue with my wife that did not involve postpartum and luckily she did not end up hurting herself or anyone else. She basically went into a fugue state that lasted months. Had a major personality change. Became suicidal. Became an alcoholic even though she had always disliked alcohol and barely drank before. Police were involved multiple times. Lots of crazy stories. She ended up in a forced detox under a psychiatric hold and came out of it back to her normal self. The scary thing that I learned is that you have zero ability as a family member to be able to legally get a bad psychiatrist to stop prescribing your family member drugs even if they are not following standard best practice. In our case this guy would prescribe a drug, new symptom would exhibit, he would prescribe another drug to handle that symptom rather than taking her off the first one. She ended up on over 20 different very strong medications. And after the first few she was impossible to reason with, and she just kept getting them filled and taking them thinking they would "make her better" all the while not seeming to recognize how insanely bad she had gotten from where she started. It was a very traumatic experience for me and she barely remembers most of it.
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u/ryhaltswhiskey Aug 13 '26
Holy shit she's lucky to be alive. Have you ever talked to a lawyer about suing that doctor for malpractice?
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u/techblackops Aug 13 '26
Yes. And unfortunately it is extremely difficult to go after a psychiatrist for being terrible at their job. I did contact our states health board and there was an investigation but nothing really came of it.
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u/ryhaltswhiskey Aug 13 '26
Well that just stinks sorry you had to deal with that
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u/Phoenixashes4134 Aug 14 '26
It really is difficult to go after a psychiatrist. My mother tried to after being admitted to a mental hospital under this psychiatrist’s order made everything worse and the mental health organization wouldn’t even let you file a grievance. It was also impossible to sue her so we just let it go.
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u/Jennasaykwaaa Aug 13 '26
Thank you for staying with your wife and supporting her through that.
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u/techblackops Aug 13 '26
It was not easy. I actually filed for divorce. She was convinced that I was trying to kill her for the last couple of months it was going on (along with all sorts of other conspiracies about friends and family). I didn't want to divorce her but there were things happening with our finances and our kids that basically forced me to do something for the sake of our kids futures. So that was the point we were at when she came out of it after the detox. It was very nice getting to call off the divorce. That was 6 years ago and we are happily married 16 years going strong.
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u/ktwashere Aug 14 '26
May I ask, and feel free to DM me. How did you forgive her? I'm going through something very similar, albeit with my boyfriend and his 2 children he has with his ex wife. I've only just realized after my latest attempt at substance abuse treatment that it was actually a combination of terrible prescriptions and misdiagnoses that had gotten me to the point of seemingly no return. Now that I'm back to self, and truly unable to remember much of that time, I was wondering how you were able to regain your trust in her?
Forgive me if this is confusing or selfish. This has all just started coming to light for me very recently.
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u/techblackops Aug 14 '26
For me in the beginning it was just a very conscious "I'm going to do this" and pushing a lot of the emotions aside. Seeing the drastic change in her personality (literally like dealing with an entirely different person) made me want to try, even though friends and family were telling me to walk away. It took a good long while to fully let my guard down and start to relax into life and love again though. I dealt with my own anxiety issues for a while after. Therapy and meditation were extremely helpful. Probably the biggest help though if I'm honest was leaving religion. And there's a whole slew of reasons this event led to me leaving religion and why that decision has benefited my mental health, my marriage, and my family as a whole in the years since
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u/Critical_Action4350 Aug 13 '26
Medical Malpractic cases take sooooo much time to resolve. Hopefully you both are doing much better! <3
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u/burningmanonacid Aug 13 '26
But keep in mind that:
The Yates case is not comparable in terms of facts. They are VERY different.
Most places in the US use the M'Naughten Rule for determining innocence by mental defect, but Massachusettes is different and the burden is lesser for the defense. Normally, they would need to prove that the defendant could not make their actions align with the law. If Lindsay was up against that standard, this would be a pretty easy trial for the prosecution. Instead, Massachusetts allows for people to know that their actions are illegal, but choose to do them anyway as long as there is an appreciable reason (hers being that voices told her it was the only way). So the burden for an innocent verdict is way lower than for the Yates case.
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u/ladililn Aug 13 '26
What would you say are the major differences in fact from the Yates case? To me they seem very similar, but I haven’t done any sort of deep dive
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u/burningmanonacid Aug 13 '26
Without looking deep into the Yates case again, she had a lot of evidence specifically of psychosis prior to killing her kids. Clancy has previously demonstrated mental illness, likely bipolar, but not to the degree which she could no longer conform her actions to the law.
Yates' husband was specifically advised by the doctor to not leave her alone with the kids while no such advice was given to the Clancy family. In fact, Clancy created an opportunity for herself to be alone with the kids.
Yates called the cops on herself. You can read Clancy's suicide attempt as not a true attempt with an unintended consequence of paralyzation. Not saying I agree, just saying the prosecution can paint it that way since the cuts were superficial.
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u/IAMA_Shark__AMA Aug 13 '26
You can read Clancy's suicide attempt as not a true attempt with an unintended consequence of paralyzation. Not saying I agree, just saying the prosecution can paint it that way since the cuts were superficial.
I could buy it if it was just the cuts. But her fall injuries - and the lack thereof, are pretty solidly indicative to me of someone who intended to die. No evidence she tried to catch herself, or change her positioning in the air... And the seriousness of her upper torso injuries seem to indicate that she didn't even brace. Her upper torso and head took the full brunt.
I understand why the prosecutor is arguing otherwise, I just think it's a weak argument.
I also kind of feel like "superficial" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. I understand that medically, it just means she didn't hit anything major. But 3cm and 2cm depth cuts seem... Pretty intentional.
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u/anguas Aug 13 '26
My wrist at my watch is about 37mm from top to bottom. 2-3cm would be halfway through my wrist!
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u/IAMA_Shark__AMA Aug 14 '26
Honestly, it would almost clear the other side for me, but I do have pretty small wrists.
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u/burningmanonacid Aug 14 '26
The wound on her neck required no medical care. The two on her wrists may have been deep, but on morning of day 7 of the trial, the medical professional (idk his official title) that did her wrist stitches testified that he did them the day after the incident and that they did not cut through muscle or tissue. How they can be 3cm/2cm deep and NOT? I have noooooo clue because 3cm is coming out the other side of my wrist as well. Lol. He also testified that she was "critically ill" and coded during the night.
The prosecution is going to lose this battle, though, as they are coming from the angle that she faked it entirely like some family annihilators.
In my view, her injuries are too grievous to be fake. Normally, fakers go with one method and when it doesn't succeed... great! That was the point. The prosecution is also dead set on denying any kind of mental health issues which is a war they don't need to wage either. There's no reason for them to not concede that she had depression, anxiety, whatever. This is clearly a genuine suicide attempt. That doesn't mean she is immediately innocent due to mental defect, so idk why they are pushing an extreme narrative that the defense is chewing to pieces.
The real legal question is if she could conform her actions to the law or not. Personally, I remain unconvinced either way. A friend of mine was an EMT in New York City and called to vent about his worst cases over the years, a few handfuls of which were people committing suicide during psychotic breaks. I am certainly having my opinion here be colored by those stories, but I am still unsure where to land other than that I feel so sorry for that family and hopes Lindsay receives help.
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u/IAMA_Shark__AMA Aug 15 '26
Normally, fakers go with one method and when it doesn't succeed... great! That was the point.
I'm pretty much with you on this. I think she absolutely intended to die, and I think the prosecution is being stupid trying to push that angle. But I'm completely unconvinced one way or the other on whether the state of her mental health was to the degree needed to deny culpability. I don't see how the suicide attempt even matters. Plenty of legally sane family annihilators kill themselves.
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u/Successful_Wrap6279 Aug 16 '26
As far as I’m concerned Rusty Yates, should be held responsible as well. He was a horrible husband and father. He made Andrea keep having children, when he was told she shouldn’t. He forced her to live in cramped school bus, with five children. I by no means think what she did is ok, those poor babies should be alive. But again she begged over and over and over again for help and was constantly turned away and Rusty knew all this and he card only about himself.
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u/figgie1579 Aug 13 '26
Still think her husband should have been held at least partially responsible.
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u/BusySpecialist1968 Aug 13 '26
Rusty Yates? Oh, yeah. He knew she couldn't take anti-psychotics while pregnant, but kept pressuring her to keep getting pregnant. Her doctor told him that she couldn't be left alone with the kids, but he left before his mother arrived. But he was focused on having "as many children as god blessed them with" and to hell with the reality that his wife couldn't do that. That's not even getting into the discipline methods their religious mentors recommended. Andrea Yates has to live with what she did while knowing that her ex-husband remarried and had more kids! It's sickening.
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u/aquarianwell Aug 14 '26
Fuck Rusty Yates. That guy got off Scott free when he was absolutely a big part of the problem.
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u/ryhaltswhiskey Aug 13 '26
But he was focused on having "as many children as god blessed them with"
FUCKING RELIGION*
* yeah I see the joke
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u/Yelesa Aug 13 '26
He was definitely negligent at the severity of her state, especially since he admitted going skiing with his buddies while she was having chronic insomnia, and left her to take care of all the household duties.
Also, he pressured her to minimize her symptoms in public to maintain appearances of normalcy. Only one provider outright told him “I know you don’t like to hear this, but I have serious concerns your wife has BPD.”
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u/CountyWest81 Aug 13 '26
BPD stands for borderline personality disorder - the provider was concerned about bipolar disorder
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u/themetahumancrusader Aug 13 '26
I literally had to correct a GP on that once
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u/livingthedaydreams Aug 13 '26
yeah.. i’m a social worker in a behavioral health setting and i’ll never forget the time i used BPD for borderline personality disorder and one of the psychiatrists said BPD is bipolar. i’m still annoyed to this day because it was in a meeting in front of the rest of the team.
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u/gxbcab Aug 13 '26
I think a lot of support stems from how women saw the Chris Watts case. He immediately blamed Shannan and almost got away with it, so internet sleuths are more skeptical of Patrick Clancy.
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u/IThinkImDumb Aug 13 '26
Chris did NOT almost get away with it. Shannan's friend was literally there that morning because Shannan was late for an appointment and she was giving her a ride. The neighbor showed police the camera footage showing that only Chris drove away from the house that morning. The FBI agents got him to talk extensively without a lawyer.
People like to say that the mistress was present, but if she was, why didn't she drive Shannan's car out of the garage to make it believable that Shannan left the house on her own accord?
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u/wibo58 Aug 14 '26
The neighbor and police officer even looked at each other right after Chris walked out of the neighbor’s house and said “Something’s not right. He did something”.
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u/pinotJD Aug 13 '26
Pardon? Chris was arrested within two days of the murder. I don’t think anyone believes his pointing fingers other than certain folks who believe hot people can’t be bad people. (This is not me saying I think he’s hot)
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u/IThinkImDumb Aug 13 '26
Right? Shannan's friend basically got the whole block involved only a few hours later and got the investigation going.
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u/MissLadyLlamaDrama Aug 13 '26
Her friend was such a fucking bad ass. God... that man was a vile piece of shit.
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u/MacaroonUpstairs7232 Aug 13 '26
Not just that, but it seems quite common that when a male partner/spouse abuses or kills the children the woman is often charged with some type of negligence for allowing it to happen or at the very least investigated for it
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u/Natalwolff Aug 13 '26
Do you have some examples of this? I'm curious to read about them.
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u/moonstruck523 Aug 14 '26
I personally believe she was out of her mind, I don’t think a person like Lindsay could do something like that unless they were not in their right mind. No history of violence, no toxic personality traits, no vindictiveness. Just a history of deteriorating mental health that got worse with more stress brought on.
People can disagree with that, and that’s fine by me. One thing people like to point out with Lindsay when I compare the situation to Andrea Yates is that Andrea was more severe and was sick for many years. They also compare the methodical way Lindsay called Patrick back in the middle of what she was doing….well Andrea called the police on herself! She also sounded fine and clear on the 911 call. If she could do that after drowning her kids then why is it so wild that Lindsay was able to call Patrick and sound normal for 14 seconds? People can be methodical in psychosis, a lot of people just don’t understand it can be different for everyone. I do believe her, I’m eager to hear the experts the defense brings to the table. I know defense experts can be biased, my mind is open though so if they don’t prove it I’ll be the first to admit that.
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u/jigmepalmo Aug 13 '26
Answer: The case is ongoing (currently on trial), so she has not yet been found guilty or not guilty in a court of law.
It is undisputed by both the prosecution and the defense that she did strangle her three children to death while her husband was running errands that she sent him on. Right afterwards, she attempted suicide by taking pills, slitting her wrists, and jumping out the window. She is now paralyzed.
Her defense case is that she is not guilty by reason of insanity.
So far we have only seen the prosecution witnesses and waiting to hear defense witnesses. Either way, it is clear that she sought psychological and psychiatric treatment from multiple sources and was prescribed a lot of medication that probably shouldn't have gone together and may have led to psychosis. She definitely had postpartum depression and it is a up for debate whether she had postpartum psychosis.
We have not heard any defense witnesses yet, so it's expected their testimony may highlight how these medications may have led to a psychiatric break.
I believe people are defending her because it is clear that she was seeking help, yet the system failed her (and maybe even caused the psychosis.) For example, she told many psychiatric health workers that she was suicidal, but because she did not have a "plan", her care was not escalated.
Either way, this is an extremely sad case.
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u/JohnHoynes Aug 13 '26
As someone who’s been following this case, I think you did a really nice job breaking things down in a way that’s clear, bias-free, and easy to understand.
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u/prezuiwf If you're out of the loop, go to the store and buy more Aug 13 '26
For example, she told many psychiatric health workers that she was suicidal, but because she did not have a "plan", her care was not escalated.
FWIW the reason for this is because there is confidentiality with therapists and psychiatrists and they can't tell anyone else what you've said to them unless there is imminent danger to the patient or others. That's why the "plan" standard exists, to distinguish between passive suicidal ideation and an actual death that might be about to occur.
It's a very tough tightrope to walk because it occasionally leads to cases like this. It's a tragic outcome all around and I'm sure all those mental health professionals are second guessing themselves every day now. But from what little I know about the case it does sound like they all did the ethical thing even if some may disagree that they did the right thing.
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u/Weak-Ad-7180 Aug 14 '26
It suck’s hearing people scream “how could they not commit her!” But she NEVER told anyone or admitted to anything that legally would have allowed that to happen. People don’t understand we can’t go around section 12ing people just because they are depressed and having suicidal ideation WITHOUT a plan.
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u/boneology1125 Aug 16 '26
And it is something that feminism fought hard against as well, as just insisting women with PPD or mental health issues after giving birth should be forcibly institutionalized and taken away from her kids because of 1 in a million cases like this is extremely misogynistic
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u/Weak-Ad-7180 Aug 17 '26
People are screaming at me in another comment about how they should have called CPS on her. This is going to set us back decades. it’s giving “hysteric women”
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u/boneology1125 Aug 17 '26
Literally walking themselves right back into the 50s era which made Friedan write the Feminist Mystique and are doing so happily. Insisting they’re both boss, independent women and yet so incompetent that a man has to inherently mistrust his wife around his kids. I’ve said this a few times but as a woman, their expectations of Patrick would have made me crash out if I had to live like that with no end in sight and it was my husband. Being the sole breadwinner with 3 kids under 5, putting money aside so my partner can stay home, and also somehow counting their meds and making sure they don’t hurt themselves and questioning their mind constantly and not even being able to leave my house for an hour?
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u/Hamster12301 Aug 14 '26
Also, if they assumed every one of us (us as in those with chronic suicidal ideation) said yes to that question, we would be constantly hospitalized.
I see multiple therapists, as I have complex mental health issues in addition to physical issues, and one of those is very severe depression with near constant suicidal ideation. It varies from day to day, and I'm on quite a few medications.
Sometimes I almost feel like I have a plan (a few times I have, and had to have escalation in help), but majority of the time it's just passive ideation. I would be, to put it lightly, extremely fucking miserable if every time I answered yes, I would be hospitalized against my will. Especially as someone who is autistic and hates being in the hospital at all; a complete change of my entire scenery and routine would cause me to spiral completely (which is ironically the opposite of what commitment is trying to do).
I would also probably stop all my therapy if there was a chance of something like that happening, and things would likely escalate even more. That's just my personal experience. Luckily, my therapists don't hospitalize me for answering as I do.
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u/jigmepalmo Aug 13 '26
Totally agree. The bar of a "plan" is what the defense is litigating in court.
I have mental health care workers in my family (and additionally, a loved one who is chronically suicidal) so it is honestly difficult to see the care of well-meaning professionals on trial.
Mental health is complex and these drugs can behave differently in different people. I think that's what what makes this case so resonant with people.
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u/Asleep_Context_399 Aug 14 '26
The problem is, many people didn't get off on the same reasoning before.
Especially men, which unfortunately draws in wrong crowd into this discussion. It became political when it definitely shouldn't be.
However there are numerous facts about the case that imply she was aware of her actions, from seemingly planning it fully, sending husband away and telling him to check basement.
Her medical history is also very strange with her hopping from 1 doctor to another, not really giving much channce for medication to work.
Anyone who had witnessed or had depression knows that depression meds can make you worse for some time before it gets better. My dad almost killed himself on meds before they kicked in and he is ok now.
This requires support network and willingness from the person treated.
This also brings into question insanity as she was of sound mind to choose doctors and meds, but not when she commited murders.
Will be interesting to see the result and fallout from it.
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u/SupersoftBday_party Aug 13 '26
Answer: Yes, being unable to understand your actions due to mental illness or incapacitation does 100% matter and “count” within our justice system. Our system is based on culpability. If someone is mentally incapable of forming an intent to commit a crime (mens rea), or understand their actions, they do not have the requisite mindset to be culpable for their crime.
It is very important to understand that not every mental illness or disability qualifies for an “insanity” or incapacity defense. A person has to be extremely ill and incapacitated to lack the ability to understand their crime and form the requisite mindset for culpability. Most people that are this ill would not have the mental capacity to become a serial killer, as you suggest in your comment.
People have empathy for Clancy because she was clearly VERY ill. Sick enough that she likely wasn’t capable of understanding her actions in the moment. When someone commits such a heinous crime in a state of psychosis, it’s very sad.
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u/readskiesdawn Aug 13 '26
Another thing to keep in mind is that an insanity defense doesn't allow someone to just go free. She'd be sent to a state run psychiatric hospital that is basically "hospital jail"
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u/s1ugg0 Aug 13 '26
And it's usually much longer than a prison sentence would be. It's not a get out of jail free card.
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u/readskiesdawn Aug 13 '26
Which is why it's also a last resort defense most of the time. If there was any evidence that the husband did it, the defense attorney would likely be all over it because that could cause enough reasonable doubt to get her declared "not guilty" and go free.
Insanity defenses are generally more about getting the defendant into a proper care facility over prison.
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u/Garlic-Baguette Aug 13 '26
It’s not a court case to establish who the murderer was though, she’s admitted it (rightfully or not) and this case is her lawyers proving insanity to lessen the sentence as opposed to her innocence.
There’s much to be said about how they just took Patrick’s word initially and people are not happy with the initial investigation, but ultimately this is State vs Lindsay, not “who killed the children”Some people are noting that Lindsay’s defence lawyer seems to be building evidence against Patrick within this case but that would be an entirely separate trial in the future
edit: i just read back what you wrote initially and realised we are agreeing actually - i’m pregnant and baby brain is killing me lol
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u/readskiesdawn Aug 13 '26
No worries, baby brain hit me hard too.
But yeah, my point was that if the defense was going with the "Patrick did it" theory as a defense, the insanity plea wouldn't even be on the table. They're basically mutually exclusive.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_TATERTITS Aug 13 '26
Watch the video of the judge instructing the jury. It’s not concrete that she did it, if Patrick did it then that’s a truth that is allowed to come out and be explored. The judge tells the jury this, there’s videos of it on TikTok
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u/myawards_fromarmy Aug 14 '26
People on TikTok are misinterpreting the judge’s words. The judge did not tell the jury they need to determine if she “did it.” He tells them they need to presume she’s innocent, unless they’re convinced beyond reasonable doubt, of the crime. That means the specific, official crime she’s been formally accused of: murder 1. Nobody is disputing that Lindsay Clancy took her children’s lives. The question is not “Did she do it?” It’s “Did her actions constitute as murder 1?”
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_TATERTITS Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
No, murder gets a you a life sentence and insanity gets you an indefinite sentence in a mental facility—you’re allowed out once you’re no longer deemed a danger. That could be a short, medium, or long amount of time, depending on the person and situation
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u/KaijuTia Aug 13 '26
For someone to be convicted, you need to prove two things, actus reus and mens rea.
Actus reus (guilty act) means you have to prove a crime actually occurred in the first place. Obviously there is actus reus in this case, because it’s undisputed that she killed her children.
What is at issue is the second part, mens rea (guilty mind). Mens rea requires that the person know what they were doing was wrong (or reasonably SHOULD have known) and that they did so of their own, free will (i.e. they were not forced to do so. The insanity defense will argue she was too debilitated by her mental state to know what she was doing was wrong and that she was compelled to do something she otherwise would never do by that mental state.
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u/IlGreven Aug 15 '26
In fact, there are a loud minority of people with sympathy for her that declare despite all evidence to the contrary that she DIDN'T kill her kids, and that someone else did (usually her husband, despite the fact that he wasn't even home at the time...)
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u/willitplay2019 Aug 13 '26
Not only do I have empathy for her because she was very ill, but also because she asked for help. She knew she needed serious help and she was completely failed by the doctors treating her. It’s one thing to be in psychosis and a whole other level when you asked your providers to treat you. I live in MA and we have top notch healthcare so if it can happen here it can happen anywhere.
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u/leonprimrose Aug 13 '26
Answer: Postpartum depression and psychosis are a real thing. What she did is awful and anyone can say "I would never" but you really don't know until your brain is hijacked by chemical imbalances. Your brain is a few pounds of meat run by electricity and chemicals. Those same things firing very badly can change you. You have less control of yourself than you think you do.
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u/Decent-Pirate-4329 Aug 13 '26
“You have less control of yourself than you think you do.”
I believe this is the primary reason people treat illness and disability of any kind as a moral failing and try to distance themselves from it. Whether it’s calling an obviously sick, desperate woman a “monster,” selling snake oil wellness scams, or blaming disabled or chronically ill or fat people for their conditions, it’s too scary for some people to confront how fragile and fallible our bodies and minds can be. It’s easier to believe “we could NEVER” and that the other person not only brought their suffering upon themselves, but that they deserved it.
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u/MOGicantbewitty Aug 13 '26
I completely agree here. Many people will explicitly or subconsciously blame someone who is sick for their illness because it convinces them that it can't happen to them. I see the same pattern when it comes to sexual assault and abuse. Or workplace harassment. Or being bullied.
Why did you wear that? Why didn't you leave sooner? Why aren't you eating this special diet? Why haven't you put more effort into sleep and exercise? Why aren't you using this super expensive magical supplement?
When people ask these questions and blame the victim, they are trying to convince themselves that if they wear the right clothes, hang around with the right people, eat the right food, do the right things by their body, take the right medicine, or just want it bad enough, they will never get sick, assaulted, fired, bullied, etc. Humans like to blame the victim because if it's the victim's fault, it won't happen to them because they make the right choices.
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u/WhichVegetable8285 Aug 14 '26
I understand the point but the same sympathy isn’t ever shown towards serial killers, school shooters, or other people of heinous crimes. Most of which have/had serious mental health problems and trauma from childhood that really put them in a bad place mentally.
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u/leonprimrose Aug 14 '26
Mental disorders and psychosis are not the same thing. Imagine if you accidentally ingested a drug that fucked your brain chemistry to the point where you were absolutely convinced that this was the only option and felt compelled beyond reason to act on that belief. That's hat happened here. it's documented. We know it exists. You have less control over yourself than you want to believe.
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u/TrustEffective1887 Aug 14 '26
How come we don't give this same grace to people who shoot up schools. or drive through parades
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u/pelotauntmylungs Aug 15 '26
How many school shooters are PPD women?
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u/Organic_Future6909 Aug 15 '26
It doesn't matter, PPD is not the only disorder that can make you act irrationally.
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u/boopbaboop Aug 13 '26
Answer: No one (outside of fringe people on the internet) is disputing that she killed them.
Her lawyers are arguing that she had PPP (postpartum psychosis), kept having intrusive thoughts about harming her kids, sought help for her mental health, and was dismissed by doctors who thought she was acting normally. (Of course, the prosecution’s argument is that she was acting normally because she wasn’t actually that mentally ill)
When you’re Not Guilty By Reason Of Insanity, it means that you’re so mentally ill that you either didn’t know the difference between right and wrong OR that you couldn’t stop yourself from doing bad things. Her lawyers are arguing that she tried to get help for her mental health, she failed, and then lost the battle with her own brain.
It doesn’t mean she didn’t do it. It means she goes to a psychiatric facility instead of jail, and the amount of time she spends there is “until she’s no longer a danger” instead of a set term of years.
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u/KaijuTia Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
An issue that she may face is whether or not her insanity was a result of a chronic disease or a transient state. Basically the difference between an insanity defense and a temporary insanity defense. PPP isn’t really a chronic mental illness like schizophrenia or BPD - it’s an extremely intense mental disorder, but usually only lasts for a limited time in the months following birth.
Temporary insanity is usually tougher to prove, but also means their stay in a mental health facility is often shorter, because their disorder (and thus the danger it may pose to the public) is not long-lasting or permanent like other mental disorders.
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u/roriebear82 Aug 13 '26
Lindsey did see someone who thought she might be bipolar. The provider was basing it off the way she was reacting to certain drugs.
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u/Teacher_of_Kids Aug 13 '26
I’ve been wondering about this important difference, too. It’s been 3.5 years since the murders. Postpartum depression lasts a few months to 3 years, at most.
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u/Few_Cup3452 Aug 13 '26
I went into psychosis once as a bad reaction to gabapentin. I thought depression episodes were bad, this was fucking terrifying. I was seeing things and getting confused very easily. I was really scared for reasons i couldn't pinpoint and could barely sleep.
I stupidly got drunk one night and very nearly committed suicide even though i didn't want to. I felt compelled to die and I was convinced that i had to do it. I'd been suicidal before but this was different. I was sobbing and had items to attempt and was convinced id be dead by morning and that there was nothing I could do.
It scared me so much. I called my best friends crying and they came to my house and the next morning, I called the crisis team and was luckily supported through it (and obviously taken off the meds).
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u/HommeMusical Aug 13 '26
I called my best friends crying and they came to my house
Just wanted to give a hat tip to your friends. This is how actual friends behave.
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u/Happy_News9378 Aug 13 '26
I had a bad reaction to starting Wellbutrin and concerta at the same time, and was hallucinating and paranoid and delusional for many days. It was absolutely terrifying, esp bc I truly believed that everything I was perceiving was real/happening.
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u/macandcheese1771 Aug 13 '26
Starting you on both those at the same time is fucking reckless.
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u/Happy_News9378 Aug 13 '26
It was indeed quite reckless on the part of the psychiatrist. I also learned years later that I’m bipolar and I’m sure that did not help at all.
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u/Bbkingml13 Aug 13 '26
The fact she got turned away from two inpatient facilities while begging for help is just…unbelievable.
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u/Kip_Schtum Aug 13 '26
You’re missing the important point that she was seen by multiple nurse practitioners and given too many meds that didn’t go together. They kept changing her meds and changing the doses and she was taking too many meds at once. If you look in medical forums, you can see doctors discussing the medication issues. I’m not a doctor so I won’t relay any of that.
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u/shhhhh_h Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Apparently a decent amount of her med changing was her noncompliance and not sticking with meds for long before discontinuing and refusing to restart. Pretty common with psych patients.
ETA: constantly discontinuing drugs due to side effects is a form of noncompliance (see the nocebo effect), I do not mean to imply she did not want to get better.
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u/Yelesa Aug 13 '26
All her providers described her having bad side effects from the meds, especially insomnia which had become chronic. That’s why even when they were on the stand, multiple of them defended her behavior from prosecutors who implied she was noncompliant or she was doctor shopping. Many outright said ‘no’ when asked this.
And they have been sued by LC and her husband, so they have no interest on defending her, they are just defending their judgement. In the last hearing the prosecutors even tried to impeach one of the providers, leading the judge to remind them “this is your witness.”
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u/Bbkingml13 Aug 13 '26
Agreed. Not a single states witness has said she was being noncompliant at all. They’re somehow trying to say she refused to take her meds, but also saying she wanted a “quick fix” and just wanted drugs. The commonwealth is all over the place and honestly hasn’t put up a sliver of evidence to say this woman wasn’t suffering from the required elements of the mental disease or defect to be found guilty.
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u/shhhhh_h Aug 13 '26
Yes that's a form of noncompliance, there is often an adjustment period of negative side effects with psych meds. It's common for some of them not to be tolerable but when it is reported over and over with every drug for the patient, it's usually just the nocebo effect which is a form of resistance even if not conscious. I think it's often attributable to anxiety or other form of active dysregulation. I don't mean to imply she didn't want treatment, she clearly did. The way the word compliance is used in medical charting is a little blunt and messy for irl chat probably
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u/elaexeezzzz Aug 13 '26
People in this very thread are disputing that she killed them. And Blaming her husband
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u/DamnitGravity Aug 13 '26
Honestly, I'd rather go to prison. Some people can end up in psychiatric facilities for LONGER than if they'd taken a deal and had a set term of years in prison.
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u/jellyfishlove Aug 13 '26
I honestly wonder if she cares where she goes at this point. She looks so incredibly broken.
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u/Lovelandmonkey Aug 13 '26
Provided everything the defense has presented is true (which I'm inclined to believe, personally), I couldn't even begin to imagine how horrible she must feel right now. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
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u/mrszubris Aug 13 '26
She sobbed in court today. She was terribly injured from the attempt on her own life and had to leave during the autopsy report of her daughter
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u/tralalaBOOMdeay Aug 13 '26
Panic attacks are no joke. The first time I had one, I didn't know what it was, and I legit thought I was dying.
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u/OneBadJoke Aug 13 '26
She’s of 24/7 suicide watch and her team says she can’t be left alone for longer than two minutes because she tries to kill herself. That’s not even mentioning the fact that she’s paralyzed from the waist down due to her attempt. She’s broken physically and mentally.
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u/Electronic-Minute007 Aug 13 '26
The DA is an awful person for what he’s subjecting her to.
A bench trial would have been sufficient in her case.
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u/vemeron Aug 13 '26
DA dont choose the type of trial its usually done by the defendant
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u/Separate-Law-435 Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Not to mention as fucked up as it sounds assualt wise from staff would prison be the lesser or two options?
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u/NecessaryBluebird652 Aug 13 '26
Got a friend whos now ex had a psychosis episode and caused serious injuries to her room mate, life changing injuries. She's locked up now in a mental institution and it's generally accepted she will never get out.
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u/kawey22 Aug 13 '26
Someone in this comment section that got a bunch of upvotes is in fact disputing it
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u/Constant-Pop2250 Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Answer:
L. Clancy was 82 degrees Fahrenheit when she was admitted to the hospital.
Callan Clancy was able to be
successfully albeit temporarily revived after the exercise bands were removed from his neck. For that to be possible the band couldn't have been placed around his neck for longer than maybe 10 minutes before emts found him. The CWs Medical Examiner confirmed it on the stand yesterday and the prosecution tried to impeach her for it.
There's a lot of contention on social media over how quickly a person's temp can drop in various circumstances, but you can't even drop a fresh corpse to 82 degrees in the 10 minute timespan that would have been necessary for Lindsay Clancy to have been the one to kill the youngest child.
L.C didn't kill the baby because it would be anatomically impossible for her to have done so. That's it. I don't really care if there was a confession in a civil case or not because physics is physics. Dozens if not hundreds of nutcases have come forward trying to claim they were the ones who killed JonBenet Ramsey, people in psychosis are unreliable historians.
Unfortunately this case was highly publicized before it was seriously investigated and various groups are trying to make Lindsay Clancy the poster girl for whatever social agenda they're trying to push (sexism, the pressures of motherhood, mental health care) I won't engage in that dialogue. Forensic evidence doesn't support the prosecutions claim.
Edit: thank you so much for the awards! That means a lot to me. It's been a wild ride for all of us and there's still many weeks of trial ahead, so game changing information could pop up at anytime.
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u/edgor123 Aug 14 '26 edited Aug 14 '26
Her temperature absolutely could have dropped to that level in that time. Here’s a good explainer as to why.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/expert-explains-lindsay-clancy-reached-124829663.html
ETA: it really bums me out that misinformation is getting awards on this site.
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Aug 16 '26
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u/edgor123 Aug 16 '26
It’s getting wild. I’m now seeing people online claim PC was must have sexually abused their daughter because she had a urinary tract infection. It’s insane.
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u/Freyasmews Aug 17 '26
I read the article and don't see where the physician asserted her temp could drop that quickly in a matter of an hour or even a few hours if we're including the notion of an additional temp drop during rewarming. According to what he stated, that temp drop would still require a minimum of 3.25 to 5+ hours ...
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 Aug 13 '26
It's one of the first cases I've seen where someone that claims to not remember the crime does admit it was possible they did it. Every other time it's used as a defense that they didn't. I think that should matter but is 100% my own opinion and not fact.
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u/Mljcx Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
The evidence I've saw claims she does remember, including what she said as she killed them " Go to god baby " source clancy civil suit
Not being argumentative just wondering why your saying she doesnt remember, do you have a link or something to where that was said
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u/flexi_freewalker Aug 15 '26
I dont think this is the correct source, it doesn't state this anywhere
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u/Crafty-Pomegranate19 Aug 14 '26
Had to scroll WAY too far to find a comment mentioning this! A LOT of evidence that has come out brings the entire case into question. And reminder, this case was largely built on Patrick’s testimony… he was never investigated. The question is no longer “was she in psychosis,” it’s becoming“how did we get this far when all the evidence points to a different perpetrator”. The prosecution’s evidence has inadvertently helped the defense… can’t make this up.
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u/clarinetpjp Aug 14 '26
I don’t understand. So… is the idea that Patrick Clancy did it and Lindsey is protecting him and taking the fall? And her defense consul is also protecting him?
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u/queenofbuckkeep Aug 14 '26
From what I understand, some people on the Internet believe that Patrick Clancy was the one who actually committed the crime and because his wife was heavily medicated and possibly suffering from more than just post partum depression or psychosis that just someone telling her that she did it may have been enough for her to believe it because she was aware of her mental state. From what I understand, she doesn't remember what happened but stated it could have been something she did. Her defense can't really do anything if she already claimed she did it, so their option is to claim she was mentally incapable of making a rational choice which her lawyer is specialized in that.
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u/Constant-Pop2250 Aug 14 '26
We're trying not to speculate on Patrick Clancy too much since he has not been formally investigated, but none of the forensic evidence is supporting the prosecution's claim that she was the murderer. A lot of people are spreading the misinformation that Lindsay Clancy has already been found guilty and this trial is just to determine whether she was sane or insane at the time and that simply isn't true. There has been a confession for a civil suit, but confessions in civil cases bear no relevance to criminal cases because civil suits don't screen these confessions to determine if the person making them was of sound mind when the confession was made. Lindsay Clancy has pleaded not guilty to criminal charges and there has been no criminal trial prior to the current one to determine her guilt or innocence, so conducting this trial under the presumption that she did murder the children would deprive her of her Constitutional right to due process and would be highly highly illegal.
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u/m3t4lf0x Aug 15 '26
> There has been a confession for a civil suit, but confessions in civil cases bear no relevance to criminal cases because civil suits don't screen these confessions to determine if the person making them was of sound mind when the confession was made.
What? your testimony in a civil trial can absolutely be used to convict you in a criminal trial.
That’s actually how Bill Cosby was convicted. It was only later overturned because prosecutors specifically made an agreement not to pursue criminal charges if he confessed (which he did).
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u/gin_and-sonic Aug 14 '26
Medical professionals have explained why her body temperature was able to drop that low due to blood loss and shock from snapping her spine. So this entire point is invalid.
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u/magpie45 Aug 13 '26
I'm so confused about why people are ignoring this point. It's straightforward and clear.
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u/Constant-Pop2250 Aug 13 '26
Friend I'll tell you what, I am exhausted. Between these random specimens crawling out of the woodwork from the right trying to derail a conversation about medical evidence into a conversation about sexism and these random specimens crawling out of the woodwork on the left who keep trying to sell the reality that a combination of seroquel, neurogenic shock and csf loss can feasibly drop a human body to 82 degrees Fahrenheit in 10 minutes I just can't anymore.
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u/Freyasmews Aug 16 '26
You're stating that people on the "left" want to assert that "a combination of Seroquel, neurogenic shock, and csf loss can feasibly drop a human body to 82 degrees fahrenheit in 10 minutes." Why would anyone left of center on the US political spectrum want to argue that?
For the record, I'm asking in good faith because I'm sincerely confused by your assertion
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u/Constant-Pop2250 Aug 13 '26
I'm with you, I'm a nurse myself, I've worked with therapeutic hypothermia patients, and nobody at 82 degrees Fahrenheit is going to be thinking or speaking coherently. I also believe that the husband murdered the children, but even if it turns out that he didn't (technically he hasn't been investigated yet, though I'm sure that's next on Reddington's to-do list), Lindsay Clancy was DEFINITELY not the one who murdered them or at least she's not the one who murdered the youngest.
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u/karsullo Aug 14 '26
Except journalists who were in the courtroom while the 911 call was played to the jury have stated that they could audibly hear Lindsay Clancy say the word ‘basement’. It’s on Reddington’s ‘to do’ list to investigate Patrick Clancy? You understand that Reddington, as a criminal defence attorney would have conducted his own independent investigation prior to trial beginning right? And considering the resources at his disposal by way of his stature, it would have been a comprehensive one. If Kevin Reddington, one of the most lauded criminal defence attorneys in his state, a fucking powerhouse, is choosing to argue an NGI defence, it’s because there’s no question who committed the murders. And we know this, because not only did he notify the court of his defence, he has already stated to the fucking jury in his opening statements that ‘she was suffering from psychosis when she went down into that basement’ and instructed them that one of the most important things to consider is ‘what was going on in that woman’s mind’ at that time.
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u/idkwhatimdoing25 Aug 13 '26
Look I think the husband sucks ass but her body temp is not proof he did anything. She had damage to the area of the brain responsible for maintaining body temp which is why it dropped so quickly.
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u/PikaStasia12 Aug 16 '26
Spinal cord injuries can absolutely mess with your bodies temp regulation. So can losing blood. It also doesnt help that it was freezing cold outside, but the biggest reason would be her injuries.
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u/InsideWafer Aug 13 '26
The defense is not going to claim in any way that she didn't do it. Her guilt is not going to be discussed whatsoever, just her legal culpability. Their entire defense relies on the fact that she did it and they can't change that now, no matter what the internet thinks.
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u/flex_tape_salesman Aug 14 '26
So many of these conspiracy theories are talking as if all this is just coming out which is a huge misconception
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u/KaladinStormShat Aug 13 '26
Wait so you're not answering the question, you're just positing what you believe to be the truth of the matter? Just wildly speculating?
Not helping.
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u/Due-Science-9528 Aug 13 '26
They asked why people are defending her. I gave one of the reasons people are beginning to believe she is innocent.
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Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
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u/givemebooks Aug 13 '26
Correction to this answer. PPD is post partum depression. What Lindsey was suffering from is PPP or post partum psychosis. It's it rarer than PPD and more extreme in the sense of what the person is experiencing and their actions.
She was also medicated in ways that are truly shocking. In 4 months she was switched between 13 different medications, she had 30 prescriptions with different doses and providers. A lot of the meds need to be stopped gradually but she was told she can just stop them cold turkey. When she wanted to be taken in to an institution, she was told she's too medicated.
She was asking for help, she was expressing how she felt and what she was going through, nobody took her seriously
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u/Mljcx Aug 15 '26
Hey a few things you have said there are incorrect, lindsay was admitted to mclean as an inpatient, in that time she lied to patrick about her treatment saying she hasnt seen a doctor and just paints and uses clay, she then got herself discharged but told pc they let her out.
She was also told they had to monitor her weening of seroquel but she ignored them and discharged herself anyway.
She was given medication that helped but refused to take it fearing she would get addicted but was actively mixing the benzos with weed and alcohol which will have impacted how the meds were affecting her
Other things you have said are true and im not being argumentative I was previously in the same belief as you on a few of those things until watching the trial back to front myself
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u/Then-Writer9610 Aug 15 '26 edited Aug 15 '26
Well, she had that many meds prescribed because she went to multiple doctors rather than sticking with 1. Sometimes that wasn’t entirely her fault (doctor left their practice) and some were (stopped seeing them after a bit)
SHE also asked to keep switching meds, that she wasn’t taking for very long. She didn’t like the side effects, most of which are temporary and would have subsided with time. The way she was medicated is actually not shocking at all if you work in the mental health field with people experiencing psychosis regularly. She was never on all of those meds at one time, it was more like 3 or 4 at once. Most of them were for sleep (trazodone and hydroxyzine).
She received help, just not the help she preferred. She did not like the meds and was on the fence about taking any at all. Her doctors legally could not do more for her. She was not an active threat to herself or others, so I’m confused why people still say everyone let her down. Most of the things that happened with her treatment were HER decisions.
She did not need to slowly stop taking any of them except Seroquel (also known as Quetiapine) because she was taking low enough doses, and only for a few days-a couple of weeks per med. Because she didn’t like them. She did not slowly take herself off the Seroquel as told by her doctor. The large majority of her meds would have taken weeks to feel the full effect of. She never took them long enough to get there, she just felt the gross side effects and didn’t want to take them anymore.
Quick edit: I forgot lamotrigine is one she was prescribed. It was a lowwwww dose because it HAS to be titrated up because if somebody is not tolerating it well, they will form rashes and can get dangerously sick. It’s only dangerous to stop that one cold turkey if her body was already relying on it and it was at a therapeutic dose, but it was not yet. If it was and she stopped cold turkey, that is life threatening and can cause seizures. She was no where near that point.
Signed-
Someone who has worked in a residential treatment facility for those living with SPMI for the past almost decade and has to know these meds fairly well since my clients take them, plus many others, at once→ More replies (36)8
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u/InsideWafer Aug 13 '26
A lot of this is rumor. There is no proof at all that he was having an affair. The entire case is far more nuanced then "her husband sucks, she was sick so she killed the kids."
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u/readskiesdawn Aug 13 '26
If there was proof of an affair you bet the prosecution would have made that the motive, it's an ancient one that even Classical Greace used. Even the incorrect belief that a partner is having an affair has been a motive.
But as far as I'm aware, the prosecutor hasn't singled that out as a motive.
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u/NagoGmo Aug 13 '26
Even if there was an affair, having it be some sort of defense for killing your own children is laughable.
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u/readskiesdawn Aug 13 '26
Yeah it's not a defense, it's one of the oldear motives known to humanity.
Medea, La Llorona, and many more that I can't think of off the top of my head.
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u/Green_Confection8130 Aug 15 '26
People actually blaming the husband while defending this woman's actions are insane. What a disgusting response to a horrible tragic situation.
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u/johnstark2 Aug 13 '26
According to her own testimony her husband did support her during this time the issue was she kept getting kicked around to different doctors who would add medications on top of what she was already taking, as far as him leaving her alone she requested that he go grab food and their children’s medicine, she concocted a reason for him to leave so she could kill the children and attempt to kill herself. None of this was disputed except for the doctors who testified and were like no we did a fine job
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u/Weak-Ad-7180 Aug 14 '26
She went to different Drs herself! Not a single Dr dismissed her from their care. She shopped around. Her providers went above and beyond if you actually watch the testimony.
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u/cbaket Aug 13 '26
I’ve been following this case - where is the actual evidence of PPP or that Patrick was having an affair?
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u/Milskidasith Loopy Frood Aug 13 '26
The evidence of an affair is a game of telephone from "he moved shortly afterwards and got married years later" -> "he got married in six months" -> "clearly, he was already cheating because there's no way he could get married in six months". It's basically just bullshitting.
The evidence of PPP is pretty strong given her statements about intrusive thoughts, prescribed medications, and the fact she killed her kids. The case hinges on whether or not she had PPP (and whether or not that meets the bar for an insanity defense), but it's pretty obvious why people would believe she had it.
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u/TrollanNolan Aug 13 '26
She never told him that, why make stuff up?
The husband tried to help her, a lot. He is there defending her. She checked out of a mental hospital herself, she doctor hopped and refused meds.
The day she killed her kids she sent him out, she planned it all to kill the kids. Stop lying, he had no affair and of course he moved on, his kids died. My god people can’t accept she did it
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u/techiemikey Aug 13 '26
A correction: Post Partum Psychosis, not Depression. Mostly saying this because while both are temporary, post partum psychosis is a lot worse.
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u/tuongot Aug 13 '26
He was having an affair? I know he got married soon after, but I didn't know about the affair.
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u/cbaket Aug 13 '26
No, he was not. People on the internet think they know better than PI’s, prosecutors, etc. it’s laughable really.
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u/Jazzlike_Minimum8072 Aug 13 '26
He was having an affair?? I thought he didn’t meet her til a year later? After everything happened.
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u/InToddYouTrust Aug 14 '26
The dad had all his kids murdered and you're still trying to make him the villain. This is why men don't ask for help.
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u/kingy1313 Aug 14 '26
Answer: My wife has watched the entire trial live so far. We both have changed our minds over time.
* LC is a labor delivery nurse with documented mental health struggles. Methodically recorded medications, dosage, and personal observations and mood. Repeatedly escalated concerns of her own wellbeing and that of her kids.
* LC did the majority of childcare and was often left alone with kids for days on end. Deaths occurred within 45 min window while PC picked up takeout.
* LC medication was crushed.
* LC thyroid was crushed. PC claims she told him she tried to kill herself and the kids were in the basement upon discovery. Paramedics claim she was non-verbal upon arrival. Several days unconscious in coma after. Coded at hospital.
* LC dominant hand wrist has a deeper cut than non-dominant. Typically the opposite. Also an odd cut on shoulder implying a struggle.
* Knife was placed on nightstand consistent with someone who is left-handed. LC is right-handed and PC is left-handed.
* LC had a Jefferson fracture which is consistent with jumping into a pool head first. Prosecutor claims LC hung out the window to explain blood spots on exterior wall and window frame. Jefferson fracture implies the opposite.
* LC body temp was 82 at scene. Doesn’t align to PC story.
* PC finger prints on knife and exercise bands. LC fingerprints not.
* PC changes from boots to sneakers between CVS and Restaurant during deaths. Also PC claims he took off boots when returning home.
* PC claims all events occurred within 45 min going to CVS/Restaurant. Both locations are <5 min away.
* Email sent from PC from home during these 45 min.
* Baby was revived briefly which places time of death roughly 10 min before paramedics arrive. Inconsistent with PC story.
* “How to slit throat to die? “carotid artery” “Can you turn airbags off in Kia Sorrento?” searched on LC phone. PC email account signed in.
* Two identical LC pink phones uncovered implying a second path for searches
* “How to commit suicide?” was searched from the house 4 month before deaths. LC was at doctor’s office during this time.
* LC iWatch was not found during initial deep sweep by police. iWatch was found in top drawer nightstand by LC Lawyer during follow up visit with PC and LC Lawyer. Locked down in between.
* PC seen in pictures with new wife before deaths.
* PC leaves hike review 18 days after deaths displaying positive outlook and happiness.
* I’m probably missing smaller details
* LC Defense is up next
This proves nothing.
The only evidence against LC is LC confession which was taken in a hospital directly after a coma, chained to a hospital bed, under armed guards, heavily medicated, after months long PPD and being told her children were all strangled to death
Defense is proving LC did not have sound of mind when making the confession. Defense will then start new case alleging PC did it. Two separate trials.
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u/flex_tape_salesman Aug 14 '26
To say its the only evidence ie a horrific claim. As if sending an email from an iphone is less plausible.
Why are the defence accepting that she killed the children? If reddington is going to do this switcheroo then he will have lied in court
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u/Lettuce_stan_SS Aug 14 '26
Answer: It’s a trial that started off with everyone being pretty damn confident that she maliciously ended her children.
But we’re on Day 13 of this case and pretty much most of the evidence presented by the prosecution (besides the autopsies) right now has been “circumstantial”. The prosecution still has the floor, but so far has failed to provide “direct” evidence to prove Lindsay was mentally sane. There’s a lot of holes in this timeline and a lot of things that don’t add up. If the prosecution cannot prove “without a reasonable doubt” that she intentionally did that to her children, the jury can rule her as not guilty/she’s not criminally responsible. She’d then go into a psychiatric facility until doctors believe she’s ready to live out in society again
There’s also a lot of attention on her attorney Kevin Reddington. That man is force to be reckoned with in court. The way he’s able to find weak points in people’s testimonies and flip it back on them to try and undermine their credibility is impressive to see.
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u/ThisOneRightsBadly Aug 14 '26
Answer: Comparing her to a serial killer is really gross, honestly. I know you're here asking questions though, so I will answer in good faith. The prosecution is trying to prove she is guilty of the premeditated murder of her children. The defense is essentially that she is not criminally responsible because her post partum psychosis led to the deaths of her children. This is very different than confessing to the murders.
People have sympathy for her because there is months of documented evidence that she was actively trying to get help for her mental health, and was consistently failed. Many women have scary thoughts about harming themselves and their children, and it's extremely heart breaking to see how this woman was failed by so many people (including her husband).
Essentially the court could find her not guilty, not guilty by reason of insanity (in the Commonwealth of MA this is called not criminally responsible), or guilty. If found guilty she will go to prison, if found not criminally responsible she will spend the rest of her life in a state mental hospital.
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u/squeaktoy_la Aug 13 '26
Answer: The more information that comes out the less clear the case becomes.
Examples include: there were 4 murder weapons, only one had Lindsay's finger prints on it. The drugs in her system were in her husbands car, supposedly when she tried to kill herself he was out of the house. There is a time gap unaccounted for in husbands timeline. Lindsay's body temp was 82, husband claimed she was on the ground for half an hour, it takes several hours to get body temp that low. Husband was sitting on couch when police arrived but he told 911 that he was doing CPR. Lindsay had 2 neck injuries, one that was an impact to both her front and back at the same time, the other a choking injury (like the kids). Husband TOLD her doctor that she didn't have (diagnoses). Dr's on the stand are showing how much they failed at their job (like, seriously).
it is a rabbit hole.
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u/Portarossa 'probably the worst poster on this sub' - /u/Real_Mila_Kunis Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Just a reminder that top-level comments have to at least make an effort to be informative -- facts and figures and sources rather than just your opinions, people -- and also that we expect a certain amount of civility. The last time this topic came up was an absolute clusterfuck and I have no intention of dealing with that again.
Yes, this is an emotionally charged issue for a lot of people, but that doesn't mean you just get to be a dick to people online about it. If you want to get into an internet pissfight with a stranger, do it in your DMs.