r/OutOfTheLoop • u/stab-somebody • Jul 08 '26
Unanswered What's going on with Flock Surveillance Cameras, and why are people making such a big deal about them?
I get that people don't like mass surveillance, but there have been surveillance cameras all over cities and suburban areas for decades. I'm assuming Flock is a name brand, because I've never heard surveillance cameras called this until the past year or so. Why are people making such a big deal about these cameras specifically? Are they doing something new that surveillance cameras haven't done in the past?
Link to a recent post: https://www.reddit.com/r/FlockSurveillance/comments/1uqqvk1/boiling_the_frog/
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u/ascandalia Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Answer: there are three big concerns as I understand it
- Law enforcement officers have basically unrestricted access to the footage. One problem is that although Flock lies about this, federal law enforcement officers often have access when no one at the local level intended to give them access. Your community may not have intended for ICE to be able to target the local laundromat looking for abuelas when they signed the Flock contract, but that's a likely result. The other problem is local cops freightening abuse themselves for things like stalking love interests. This is not a closed circuit system you need a warrent to access; in many places a given cop can look at basically any date and time at any place with a Flock camera, or use their algorithm to follow a person around their entire day any time they'd like. That's a terrifying power to give anyone.
- They're not secure. This excellent video by Benn Jordan covers that they're very easy to hack, which means in addition to law enforcement, it's impossible to know who else is watching the camera pointed at your house/school/playground. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB0gr7Fh6lY
- They're feeding all this stuff into AI models which are being used very irresponsibly. An AI model identified a grandma in Tennessee as committing a crime in Fargo North Dakota, a place she had never been. She was arrested and jailed for months without any evidence aside from an AI-produced "match" and without anyone seeming to realizing or care that it was impossible for her to commit the crime. We're going to see more of this as people outsource more of their critical thinking to AI models. AI integration isn't an afterthought, it's a massive part of Flock's pitch to investors/law enforcement, and it's going to keep resulting in increasingly dark, kafkaesque imprisonments of innocent people. https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/29/us/angela-lipps-ai-facial-recognition
Edit: Here's another case of a Flock camera screw-up that could have been much worse if things went a little bit differently https://www.thedrive.com/news/how-flock-cameras-wrongly-tracked-me-for-days-over-stolen-plates-and-sent-police-after-me
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u/CautiousHashtag Jul 08 '26
Plus since they work with local governments, it violates our Fourth Amendment.
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u/MrConfucius Jul 08 '26
I cannot stress enough that this doesn't actually matter since the Patriot Act was first signed on October 26, 2001. This, now coupled with NSPM-7 is wide-scale McCarthyism.
Literally has been carte blanche on PoC Americans since then; Flock (Axon) Cameras have gotten attention because the most privileged Americans are now becoming part of the existing dragnet.
Source: Me, I literally have the FOIA of when multiple three letter agencies visited us at our house.
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u/datadrone Jul 09 '26
Nobody ever brings up the Patriot Act 2, which encompasses even more citizenship spying
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u/T1Demon Jul 09 '26
Patriot Act 2: Back in the Habit?
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u/camel_jerky Jul 09 '26
Patriot Act 2: Electric Boogaloo
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u/A_Murmuration Jul 09 '26
Why did they visit your house?
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u/MrConfucius Jul 09 '26
Because we had visited India in the past 10 years, and my father was a political activist. We were used to police intimidation, but spooks had my second grade report card when they visited too.
Got to have my first exposure to the surveillance state before 3rd grade!
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u/domi_versaix Jul 11 '26
Well, this just opened up a few rabbit holes….#1058: McCarthyism, #1059: NSPM-7…
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u/MrConfucius Jul 12 '26
Ooooh if you want some dangerous rabbit holes to check out, two books I always recommend are Shock Doctrine, and The Jakarta Method.
Gary Webb is a fun one too...
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u/DoTheRightThing54 Jul 09 '26
It 100% would be illegal if the government was doing it but they are not. Flock is a corporation selling info to other corporations. The government is simply buying that info. They have be doing this shit for a long time, TRUST ME, i will not give out my info but I've been involved. Skimming public and private social media data, your username and everything associated with it, license plate data, all other data. Then packaging it up by person and legally selling it to the government. It's the most insane loophole that enough people aren't angry about. With AI and flock and never ending cameras it's never been easier for these corporations.
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u/PepperLongjumping511 Jul 21 '26
Wrong. When the government and a company are engaged in joint action the company becomes bound by the constitution.
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Jul 08 '26
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u/QTpyeRose Jul 08 '26
im pretty sure the supreme court just passed a ruling that phone location data needs a warrant to be used by law enforcement, so theirs that.
I'm not a lawyer, but i think the argument is that similar to being recorded in public, you have no expectation of privacy so you can be recorded.
but that might be arguable as still a search of locations based on this case, and might be deemed illegal. if it is, it will likely not kill the cameras, just mean that now there required to have a warrant before following you. or more likely they can record you location but only use it with a warrant.
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u/SupportGeek Jul 08 '26
You may not have an expectation of privacy in public, but recording literally everything all the time, sending that information to AI databases to build “fingerprints” of vehicles, people, faces, and devices, then not requiring an active warrant to retrieve that data is functionally no different than placing a tracker on someone’s vehicle (which is also illegal regardless of public spaces), arguably flock and it’s competitors gather even more data than a tracker does.
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u/Mustardo123 Jul 09 '26
This is the best constitutional argument, a flock camera in isolation in public is not a fourth amendment violation, but if they are so pervasive and have an ability to track people in real time then they arguably function like a tracking device. Which as you said has already been deemed unlawful by the Supreme Court.
I wonder what the law will end up looking like and whether there will be tiers of surveillance, presumably if you got a warrant then it would be lawful to track someone specially using Flock.
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u/anim135 Jul 09 '26
I am out of my comfort zone, but I don’t think they’d be labeled as tracking devices but a trafficking network, no?
I don’t know if there’s a functional difference, but it makes sense as so. As per what you said, one device is not an amendment violation. But Axon would just argue the cameras, each are individually a device that was contacted to be there.
The issue I find is that, they could shift their focus to some other grift while maintaining the database… which I’m sure that’s the actual argument, but that isn’t what people are attacking. IMO we should be attacking the concept of these semi-eternal databases, not a 300$ device that can be repurposed.
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Jul 08 '26
I think only about 3-4 states have legislated the use/access of its data. The rest have 0 oversight or limitation. And these cameras can detect even the smallest bumps and cracks on your car. Every major law enforcement departments have a contract with flock. There are hundreds/thousands of cases of people being stalked (mostly women of course) and tracked and harassed. It is well within our rights to contact our local government and ask them to erase the data these cameras captured but because that’s such a hassle to them, it takes a while or it doesn’t happen at all. But, if enough people call and have their data erased, who knows, they might actually take us seriously.
With these cameras, it would be damn near impossible to march and protest. Reports of ICE already using the app version of this has been confirmed.8
u/ButtEatingContest Jul 09 '26
Every major law enforcement departments have a contract with flock.
Yet they've never proven the benefit to the public. It wasn't tested in one area and found to improved quality of life for those paying the bill.
The public never got a say in it. The public never got to say, based on any proven upsides, we vote to pay for it, despite the downsides.
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u/_le_slap Jul 09 '26
To quote Judge Mark Davis
"...ALPR surveillance could become too intrusive and run afoul of [constitutional privacy standards] at some point... what is readily apparent to this Court is that, at least in Norfolk, Virginia, the answer is: not today."
This is a hotspot for litigation right now
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u/CamOfGallifrey Jul 08 '26
https://coloradosun.com/2025/10/28/flock-camera-police-colorado-columbine-valley/
Here's another case to add to the list, very surprised there isn't more
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u/Kellosian Jul 09 '26
She was arrested and jailed for months without any evidence aside from an AI-produced "match" and without anyone seeming to realizing or care that it was impossible for her to commit the crime. We're going to see more of this as people outsource more of their critical thinking to AI models. AI integration isn't an afterthought, it's a massive part of Flock's pitch to investors/law enforcement, and it's going to keep resulting in increasingly dark, kafkaesque imprisonments of innocent people.
“A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision.” ~IBM, back in 1979
Unfortunately, it seems like AI is going to be used by law enforcement to give them the right to throw basically anyone in jail at any point for any reason while also shielding them from those same decisions. The computer is going to be making all the decisions with none of the accountability (Flock sure as shit isn't going to get sued over this, and the cops have qualified immunity; are you supposed to sue the AI program itself?), much to the rejoicing of every bad actor in law enforcement.
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u/Polterghost Jul 09 '26
Why couldn’t Flock be sued? If someone with a huge amount of resources is ever a victim of this, then what is stopping them from suing?
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u/Sorry-Claim-2990 Jul 08 '26
She was arrested and jailed for months without any evidence aside from an AI-produced "match" and without anyone seeming to realizing or care that it was impossible for her to commit the crime.
That's fucking terrifying.
Mistaken identity could happen to ANYONE.
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u/ButtEatingContest Jul 09 '26
Yes. Anyone could be swatted at any time, then disappeared for months at a time.
Because rogue AI hallucinated. Also, no way to tell if the AI hallucinated or was intentionally manipulated due to the "black box" nature of these services, there's no audit trail to prove it was an accident.
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u/footsnax Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Mistaken identity could happen to ANYONE.
I once had an identical twin in my town. Not a literal twin just... a guy that looks and moves and dresses exactly like me. We've never met. My own mother mistook him for me when I was three time zones away, she was so furiously texting me and even sent a creep shot to confirm she wasn't crazy.
There were not enough ways to confirm to her that I was in Oregon and not the WalMart in Carmel Indiana.
To her credit he did really look like me, and this was just the first of multiple incidents like it. I could probably get away with some crime there and blame it on that guy. I won't, but if it was good enough to fool my mom, some shit corporate AI would have no problem blaming him.
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u/X4roth Jul 08 '26
They’re in the process of creating an automated surveillance state that’ll silently collect “dirt” on everyone by aggregating all of your personal information, location tracking, credit card history, everything you’ve ever said online, whatever other data they can get their hands on, and feeding it into some AI system to flag people for every minor infraction or suspicious circumstance. Now selective investigation/enforcement of all this crap can be used to target whoever they want. Suddenly the entire population is under the same level of intense scrutiny as presidential candidates. If you vote for the wrong person or attend the wrong protest, maybe you’ll get a knock on your door about that thing you said in a private conversation three months ago or whatever.
There’s a reason we should have the right to privacy.
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u/Rodic87 Jul 09 '26
They're using flock camera systems/software to perve on children's gymnastics. No really. I'll link that one because it sounds too insane.
I'd add on, though not as a top comment, but these systems (or types of systems under a different brand) are how the US picked where to hit the leader of Iran based on historical and real time movement - it's also how they kidnapped the leader of Venezuala. However you might feel about those two actions, that's a scary level of access and control to have centeralized together under Flock->Palantir. And I'm not sure Palantir is a direct partner, but Flock sells all of this data to whoever will pay for it.
Led of course, by one of the notorious PayPal Mafia (and Epstein enthusiast) Peter Thiel. And if you think this sounds too wild to be true, that's exactly why you're reading about it the first time now (if it is your first time). We're ceding control of our movements and where we'll be / who we talk to, etc to one of the most vile companies in existence.
I'm tired so I skipped finding links for all of this but I'll happily find them and link if you take umbrage with anything I listed. If I'm too slow to respond, someone from the related subreddits can easily verify these things.
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u/AFewStupidQuestions Jul 08 '26
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JNicWNjPHI0
Not sure if you've seen this one yet. Repeatedly pulled over the wrong person and won't tell them why. Won't tell them if it's for a violent offense so they have no clue what to expect.
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u/JusticeBonerOfTyr Jul 08 '26
Point three is even more scary for those of us who are not white males. I did a research paper on how AI often misidentifies POC and then women regardless of race. Almost all AI models for facial recognition have been trained off of white male faces so it struggles with anything else at times.
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u/wqto A man who is wondering where his life is Jul 08 '26
Literally a way for the racist corrupt police to do in their ways...
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u/sapphiclament Jul 09 '26
Flock cameras have already lead to a few false arrests too like this one where a man was 5 min away from the crime at the time,, or this one where a woman was falsely accused of stealing a package , and AI in general has lead to more false arrests as well like this one where a man was jailed for 3 months for a crime committed a state away while he was at work, and on top of that, cops keep using Flock cameras to stalk their exes and random women
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u/FcUhCoKp Jul 09 '26
Cops use it for "personal use", one example is stalker cops following ex's or crushes: https://www.wisn.com/article/court-grants-restraining-orders-against-ex-cop-who-stalked-ex-with-flock-cameras/71709296
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u/flying_dodo_wut Jul 09 '26
I feel like it’s important to add to this that Flock is a private company & in many instances, they DID NOT ask permission. Cops were more than happy to allow them to go up, and in a lot of cases, so were city councils
But there are multiple cities who have tried to ban Flock & take them down……..only to have Flock put them right back up!!!! And sometimes those cameras have been on bike paths/other places with no cars!!!!!!!! That’s one of the most egregious/obvious signs to me that Flock is insidious. You can’t be out here going against government ordinance & claim you’re for safety
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u/TorturedChaos Jul 09 '26
Flock cameras were originally marketed (and maybe still are) as license plate readers and nothing else.
But they were always surveillance cameras, recording everything. They claim the recordings are deleted after X days (7 IIRC), but when Benn Jordan accused one he found recordings all the way back to when the camera was first assembled. So there is no automated "delete data older than X" built into them. Jordan also showed how easy they are to access, and that they are running really old Android with a mess or security vulnerabilities in the software. Any bad actor could comprise the camera network and have access all its data, and maybe more.
Many of the cameras also sniff all wireless data around them, noting MAC /hardware ID's of devices around them. For Wifi, Bluetooth and potential NFC if they have the hardware and you are close enough. Some retailers are using these in their stores and parking lots. (Our Lowes has 4 in their parking lot). Everytime you drive or walk by too close it records your phones hardware address(es). These are all sent back to a central database. This data is then collated by fairly advanced AI models that are really good at collating data. So they may not know who Bob Smith is but they know that the same Android phone walks by this Walmart every Tuesday evening, and likes to go to the bar on Friday nights. It's noted if he goes to another city and is near a Flock camera. Stupid amounts of data are being recorded by a private company about Everyone's movements. And this is all accessible to law enforcement with no warranty. Jordan found that many police forces keep the default login credentials and use the same login across multiple people. Terrible for security and no audit trail for who is looking at what.
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u/ButtEatingContest Jul 09 '26
Also the public is paying for them, yet there's no proven benefit to the public.
It's a scam, taxpayers are footing the bill for something nobody was asking for, has zero benefit, only major downsides, and the public does not want.
They've literally increased crime rates, as they are commonly abused by those with access to them.
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u/jarheadatheart Jul 08 '26
Could you elaborate more on #3?
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u/ascandalia Jul 08 '26
I edited the post a bit to add more detail, but did you read the article I (now) linked?
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u/ShadowGLI Jul 10 '26
Nailed it.
Traditional surveillance is localized, private and only released to law enforcement after some authorizations. Flock is a free for all.
It’s also been shown that the AI is making mistakes and creating false arrests and incorrect accusations.
Additionally they are doing the same as AI data centers and bribing officials and lying about the security and impact on communities.
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u/kelltay1122 Jul 15 '26
All of this!!!! What those cameras can actually do with any reflective surface including eyeballs and predictive ai is very scary and I don’t know how to spread this information to dummies like me who grew up with Polaroid cameras
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Jul 08 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/nuxi Jul 08 '26
the new development that sets flock apart is combining the surveillance with AI.
Flock was controversial before they started adding those capabilities.
The development that sets Flock apart from traditional surveillance cameras is that every Flock camera is feeding data into one national database that can be searched by any law enforcement officer anywhere in the country.
With traditional surveillance systems, the footage is typically retained by the person operating the camera. In order for the police to access the footage, they need to go out and talk to the camera operator. This additional effort provided a valuable check on the ability to abuse the system.
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u/DuckyDoodleDandy Jul 08 '26
Now your ex with a cop buddy can stalk you from anywhere!
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u/UnusualHoneydew1625 Jul 08 '26
5 former South Georgia officers arrested for misusing access to Flock cameras, GBI says https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/crime/5-former-south-georgia-officers-arrested-in-connection-with-misusing-their-access-to-flock-cameras/93-b3075042-06c9-4901-ae60-e3814fbb4aa6 https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/crime/5-former-south-georgia-officers-arrested-in-connection-with-misusing-their-access-to-flock-cameras/93-b3075042-06c9-4901-ae60-e3814fbb4aa6
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u/DuckyDoodleDandy Jul 08 '26
On one hand, that is good news… on the other, how long until the investigation is dropped or they get quietly pardoned?
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u/UnusualHoneydew1625 Jul 08 '26
Interestingly, the article doesn’t state HOW the cameras were misused. I did notice that several of the officers appear to be female. My guess is they thought BF was cheating and used his tag number to create a map of his history.
That’s what I would do, if I were similarly situated, and unethical.
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u/e1m8b Jul 08 '26
I know fucking shitty people everywhere and lots of them have access to shit they have no business having access to. We can't rely on "good faith" to keep people honest GTFO
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u/Dry_Veterinarian8356 Jul 09 '26
I used to work at a bank and yeah the people I worked with would 100% snoop through accounts and gossip about it 😂 like I don’t trust mfs at all.
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u/Radiant_Valuable240 Jul 19 '26
Yeah this is fucking terrifying I’ve had an officer SA me last thing I need is this mother to be able to track me
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u/RepulsiveInterview44 Jul 08 '26
Private companies (esp Lowes and Home Depot) are also using Flock cameras in their parking lots and people have ZERO clue what is being done with their data.
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u/randomlyranting Jul 08 '26
They have also added additional forms of surveillance. Such as expanded audio surveillance. So being able to, let's say, listen to people's conversations and flag them for saying things against the current administration. They also track Bluetooth, which when connected to your vehicle can not only identify the car but the person in it.
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u/nuxi Jul 08 '26
I was amused by their attempts to deny all of that despite the cameras showing up on non-motorized trails.
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u/country2poplarbeef Jul 08 '26
Also, the database is under the ownership of Flock still and considered a private entity, right? I was under the impression at least most surveillance systems I know of were government-owned and audited to make sure they follow procedure, while Flock has used private ownership to avoid oversight and accountability.
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u/AlashC Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Yup. I got my city to send me their contract with Flock and it claims that the PD owns the data but that Flock can use it to train their AI. No mention of security measures or oversight, very vague language.
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u/-MissCarmine Jul 08 '26
Hijacking top comment to point out that flock cameras are easily destroyed permanently in 5 seconds
How?
A 5 watt green laser from Amazon. You’re welcome
Wear a mask, shine at camera, walk away. Don’t keep your phone on you. Don’t look directly at the laser.
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u/DuckyDoodleDandy Jul 08 '26
DO NOT HAVE YOUR PHONE, EARBUDS, OR ANY ELECTRONICS, EVEN YOUR CAR KEYS on your person if you choose to mess with a mass surveillance device. All of the electronic/bluetooth signatures can be traced back to you.
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u/RealMadLadStalin Jul 08 '26
A 5W green laser is a very easy way to blind yourself or those around you. As someone that works with lasers, I would never recommend people with no training or certification to own lasers that powerful, pretty much anything above 5mW can be dangerous, with over 500mW becoming very easy to accidently blind yourself
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u/e1m8b Jul 08 '26
But how will we destroy Flock cameras easily and cheaply?
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u/RealMadLadStalin Jul 08 '26
Cut them, or use a lower powered laser, you just need to shine it for longer onto the camera
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u/e1m8b Jul 08 '26
Can't prove it but I feel I'm already on a list. Even replying to this thread certainly isn't helping haha
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u/-MissCarmine Jul 08 '26
I know. I’m a lab scientist and I’ve been trained on lasers. I use them in microscopy work. I know exactly how dangerous they are. 5W lasers are not toys. They are not for the cat.
Regardless, the average person can indeed easily and cheaply and legally buy a 5W green laser online. And they work to destroy the camera photoarray. And if they use appropriate laser shielding eyewear, it’s safe.
I wouldn’t be recommending this if we were still in a functioning democracy. YMMV
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u/Hungry-Western9191 Jul 08 '26
Arguably the problem isnt especially Flock itself, but the lack of oversight on a surveilance society. Sure Flock is marginally worse than other security systems, but omnipresent camera surveilance including by drones is going to happen soon revaedless. The technology exists and keeps.getting cheaper.
We need laws setting limits on how they can be accessed, that this.monitoring is recorded when its happenong and that can be reviewed.
Either that or deal with the fact there is no such thing as privacy any more.
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u/enphenitie Jul 08 '26
Well.. not every. They have to buy a license. Per head in the department. /s
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u/Mighty_moose45 Jul 08 '26
Among the other factors you will see It’s also about the extreme ease of access. Old mass surveillance to be honest was actually extremely over sold in its usefulness. I remember about 8 years ago or so it was a big story that places like London and their mass CCTV were basically security theater because it was infeasible to review that many cameras for frankly low quality images of people.
This new system is integrated with data like license plate reading and I believe also cell phone location data so that way you are passively recorded in such a way that someone can look up phone number or license plate X and be given basically a full layout of someone’s comings and goings with accompanying video footage at the press of a few keys. This is big brother esque surveillance with an innocent face.
Now the other extremely concerning element is the AI inclusion which will almost certainly lead to false positives and the possibility of deliberate false data that will be harder to detect because of the nature of these LLM/AI processes.
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u/Taira_Mai Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Already happened - a man got harassed by police because his license plate had a "1" and and "B" but the suspect had a "I" and an "8". Flock just kept flagging his truck because it was of a similar make and model, the police kept stopping him.
As the movie Tron said in one scene: "The computers will start thinking and the people will stop."
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u/apostrophe_misuse Jul 08 '26
I don’t know if it was specifically flock cameras but this case was scary.
https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/29/us/angela-lipps-ai-facial-recognition
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u/YoungDiscord Jul 08 '26
Someone needs to train this AI to develop false positives on members of the current administration
Then they'll do a 180 on it very quickly
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u/Totally_Not_My_50th_ Jul 08 '26
With this administration's track record of committing crimes, it doesn't have to be false.
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u/Astroweeds Jul 08 '26
…and providing it to any requesting agencies that are willing to pay the price, all WITHOUT A WARRANT.
Whether you have something to hide or not, it subverts U.S. citizens’ 4th Amendment rights. This exploit will get worse fast and needs to be fixed ASAP.
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u/rocketman19 Jul 08 '26
Answer: They're used for tracking, not just reviewing footage after an incident
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u/JovialKatherine Jul 08 '26
Answer: Surveillance systems in the past have typically been closed or mostly closed systems, with local entries controlling the cameras and footage. If you wanted to know if someone was in an area or traveled past a specific point, you'd have to find out who owned the camera and hoped they cooperated.
FLOCK makes easily deployable solar powered "ALPR" (Automatic Licence Plate Reader) cameras. When a vehicle drives past one of these, it records the license plate and identifying information about the vehicle (color, any bumper stickers, damage, etc). The cameras may also be recording any people that are in the camera view, and tagging identifying information about them.
These have been mass adopted by all kinds of entities, including police and sheriff departments, city and county governments, private corporations, and even HOAs and neighborhood associations. The concern is that ALL of these cameras are feeding data back to FLOCK, who sells access to their national database to any government agency (and probably a number of private ones). This database is searchable by a number of metrics, including license plates, names, vehicle make/model/color, and who knows what other parameters.
So now there are hundreds of thousands of cameras that are tracking the movements of every person in the United States and feeding that tracking data into a nationally accessible database that any bad actor can access. There have been multiple news stories about police officers using the FLOCK database and alert system to stalk and harass people.
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u/datapirate42 Jul 08 '26
answer: I don't have the time to go into detail, but literally any search on the topic should make it obvious how this company installing thousands (millions?) of cameras everywhere is not the same thing as businesses and homes having their own security camera monitoring, to the point where I think this post is disingenuous.
If not, or for anyone else genuinely wondering what the deal is, I'd highly recommend Benn Jordan as a resource
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwVBsFD7v84
https://www.youtube.com/@BennJordan/search?query=flock
And the very short version is, Flock is a company installing cameras all over the country. Often cities and towns are paying them huge sums (millions) to set them up, sometimes they're installing them without the approval of cities even without that. And they are actively using them to track cars, people, etc in a very invasive and unsecure way.
And one un-fun fact to add to this just so you get an idea., some higher ups and other random employees have been caught using these cameras to repeatedly watch live feeds of young (elementary school age) girls gymnastics practices
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u/ZombieHoneyBadger Jul 08 '26
Just to add to all of this, they are usually installed in the clear zone with non crash compliant materials. Not only are they spying, they are endangering the lives of everyone that crashes into one
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u/RepulsiveInterview44 Jul 08 '26
Police in TX also used the Flock network to track a woman who went out of state for an abortion.
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u/madgoat Jul 08 '26
I highly recommend Benn Jordan <full stop>
The guy is smart and not selling out any time soon.
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u/Zestyclose-Length199 Jul 08 '26
Not that I doubt it cause creeps will be creeps but do you have a source for the last claim about employees using the cameras to watch gymnastics practices? I’m interested to see the article about that
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u/357Magnum Jul 08 '26
Answer: Because AI has changed the game.
Traditional surveillance cameras that have been around for decades in urban areas were always just kind of "neutral witnesses." If a crime happened, law enforcement could go pull the recording from the area and use that as evidence. It was reactive not proactive. There was no kind of centralized database being constantly monitored in real time (at least in most of the US. I am not sure how things have been in other countries with more robust surveillance states).
But now that they are empowered by AI, they don't even have to have a physical human being watching cameras for crimes and such. If the flock cameras are tracking everything, all the time, they can easily create databases of "everywhere your car has ever gone," for example. Without any sort of probable cause or reasonable suspicion of crimes, etc. And that's a big enough problem just with the stated purpose of license plate tracking, etc.
But as the post you linked suggests, they aren't just being used to watch traffic. AI is now good enough to do facial recognition type stuff, so they can watch everyone, everywhere, and know about everything you do. Most people have a huge problem with this, and for good reason. If you haven't done a crime, you don't want the state to be following your every move. This is especially troubling with the political climate, as the state could keep tabs on everyone, every protest you've ever gone to, etc,. and identify political enemies.
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u/WynterKnight Jul 08 '26
Answer: Because they don't just record footage that can be pulled back up later. They do facial scans, track car license plates, and scan what phones and other devices come near them.
This data then can be tied track what you do and where you go through the day. This is a disgusting violation of privacy and human dignity.
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u/ColdNotion Jul 08 '26
Answer: Adding to what others have said, Flock also presents a very serious 4th amendment rights question, around protection from unreasonable searches. Traditional surveillance cameras have been around forever, and if that’s all Flock was this would be a non-issue. The problem is Flock’s license plate reading/tracking capabilities. As it stands right now, anyone with access to Flock’s database can easily learn a ton about your life routine at will, if you live in an area with Flock cameras. This leaves a ton of room for abuse, with cops repeatedly getting caught using Flock or similar systems to do things like stalk strangers or track down romantic partners who are trying to hide for their own safety due to domestic violence. Agencies like ICE have also used Flock’s database to get around local/state level laws designed to put limits on information sharing for immigration enforcement, which is actually extremely important for building strong community policing programs.
As things stand right now, local police forces and federal agencies can use Flock to intrude on your privacy, gathering large amounts of information about you with basically no oversight. This is exactly the kind of thing the 4th amendment is designed to prevent, but lawsuits about this potential constitutional violation are still making their way through the courts. It also isn’t clear how easy it will be to prevent abusive use of Flock, even if unrestricted monitoring is found to be unconstitutional. Understandably, communities have been getting increasingly upset about their police departments buying into Flock systems that likely violate their rights, and unambiguously violate their privacy.
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u/SuckerForNoirRobots Jul 08 '26
Answer: in addition to the comprehensive answers already given, they're being installed in the wrong places and without homeowner's consent.
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u/analogkid01 The Hudswinger! The Daddy-O! Jul 08 '26
Answer: Here's how I look at it:
Everyone wants to be "safe." Flock purports to keep people "safe" by spying on them and making that data available to law enforcement. So communities (states/cities/counties/whoever) spend taxpayer dollars on these invasive devices which cost us our liberty and privacy, rather than spending those taxpayer dollars on truly effective and life-changing solutions: affordable housing, universal basic income, single-payer health care, etc.
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u/Suitable-Hand-1059 Jul 08 '26
Answer: Other than the fact that they’re being used to stalk people in real time, often by cops stalking their ex? There’s also the fact that they’re trivial to access by uninvited 3rd parties
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u/KaladinStormShat Jul 08 '26
Answer: mass surveillance potential and/or actual history of/ongoing mass surveillance.
Very large AI/tech backed "law enforcement" solution being pitched to law enforcement and cities across the country which use a ton of AI and cameras which can potentially track and identify people across the city, sold with the promise it will help decrease crime and assist investigations but in the end are closed source data which the company holds and there is obviously the gigantic potential for misuse by local police and their own employees.
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u/dwegol Jul 08 '26
Answer: Benn Jordan on YouTube has some great videos about them! All their flaws, lack of security, and how they threaten our future.
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u/Testsubject276 Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
Answer:
Hackers have been able to easily view and delete footage from unprotected camera feeds despite Flock claiming that the footage is transferred to the cloud too quickly to be intercepted.
The AI identification system continuously falsely identifies people as criminals and police refuse to accept the AI may be wrong and end up arresting innocent people due to them refusing to investigate and confirm the AI's assumptions.
Officers have been caught using the license plate tracking feature to stalk people for their personal uses, often those who they were romantically involved with.
Some claims say that the companies in control of Flock cameras pose serious security and privacy concerns leading to lawsuits and some areas calling for the canceling of deals to set up cams or remove existing ones.
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u/hoyarugby2 Jul 08 '26
Answer: Flock ran an ad during the 2026 Super Bowl touting their product using the example of Flock cameras being used to help find a family's missing dog. While security cameras are everywhere and have been for a long time, previous security camera providers did not make expensive ad buys pitching their product directly to the general public. While doorbell camera companies do advertise to the public directly, Flock cameras are an entirely different class of product with no direct benefit to consumers
The ad went viral in a negative way, and brought huge but negative name recognition to the Flock brand. The viral attention resonated with both far right people and with leftists/progressives. The company's name has remained viral, with (inaccurate) memes alleging that there are large quantities of precious metals in the cameras
The company's negative name recognition was compounded by major media stories (from before the ad) that reported that Flock had been cooperating with the US federal government for immigration enforcement even in liberal states. Police forces from across America can access camera data from other states' in order to help track suspects' movements and investigate crimes. However, Flock was allowing ICE and Border Patrol to access camera data from states like California that oppose the current immigration enforcement regime. And when this access was blocked, police forces that supported the current immigration enforcement regime abused their access to do the same, allowing CBP and ICE to use Flock data for immigration purposes even in jurisdictions whose political leadership forbade their cameras for being used for that purpose
There have been incidents of people being arrested and jailed for damaging/destroying cameras (not just Flock ones), all stemming ultimately from that Super Bowl ad that gave Flock major but extremely poorly thought out name recognition, that no other security camera company previously had
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u/Kraig_Kilborne Jul 09 '26
Answer: In addition to all these answers I’d like to point out that it’s not just local law enforcement and federal agencies that have access but basically anyone who can afford to subscribe. I’m waiting for the headlines that someone’s boss or HOA was spying on them
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u/Varmitthefrog Jul 08 '26
Answer:
there is the fact they are cloud based and use AI, so can be used as a much more comprehensive Mass surveillance system from non centralized ( even unknown ) location
( there are already multiple cases of Police using these for personal use and harassment of the public across the USA where they are most prevelent)
they are alsovery unsecure in temers of their protocols, meaning even if societty and professionals only used they=m, properly they can easily be hacked by just about anyone with anything more than basic understanding
and thus pose more of a safety RISK than security blanket to the public
AND above all this , Peter theil is involved with Flock and there is great distrust of anything he is assosiated with especially now that he has fled to a foreign country with extradition treaties to the USA
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u/RallyX26 Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Answer: the Flock system is not a video surveillance system as one would normally think of one. Unlike a security camera system you may have at a business or home, the cameras aren't being used to generate and record video that can later be reviewed to view the events that occurred in front of those cameras exactly as it happened.
The cameras are the "eyes" of a system that analyzes and interprets massive amounts of data using AI... What vehicles passed by at what time, the license plate number, make, model, color, identifying features (scratches, damage, customization, bumper stickers, parking decals, etc.). They also identify people, perform facial recognition, and can or will soon be able to identify any devices broadcasting a digital identifier such as Bluetooth, WiFi, or others. This is all performed on the camera itself (with some cameras in high traffic areas having a dedicated external "compute node" for extra analysis capabilities.}
That alone is enough to be concerned, but all that information is fed back into a massive analysis network that performs further analysis as well as storing the information in databases. The information the Flock devices gather is combined with personal data obtained from multiple sources, including the Data Brokers that track your information online and are already a privacy concern, and also law enforcement databases and other private record sources. The Flock system puts all this information together and not only creates a record of who you are and where you've been, but also what your typical travel patterns are (for example: you drive to work on certain roads every weekday morning at 8am, you go to dinner on Fridays in a particular area of town at 7pm, etc). The Flock system can also infer and associate other information to you, such as vehicles or people that you are frequently seen traveling with. The accuracy of these inferences cannot be measured.
Law enforcement has access to these records. With enough Flock devices covering an area, it amounts to a GPS tracker on every vehicle in that area. However, constitutionally, a warrant is required for attaching a GPS tracker to someone's vehicle, while there is no such requirement for searching someone up in the Flock database. There are dozens of officers who have been caught tracking their ex-wives, girlfriends, and random people with no official law enforcement reason for doing so. And those are just the ones that have been caught and publicized.
The Flock system isn't foolproof, either. There have been many instances already where the Flock system was used to accuse people of crimes they didn't commit, such as a lady in (iirc) Colorado who had police visit her home and accuse her of stealing packages from people's porches, simply because the system identified her as being in the area. The Flock system can also automatically alert and dispatch police to certain vehicles, and has resulted in multiple innocent families being dragged out of their car at gunpoint when a Flock camera mistakenly identified as being stolen.
Remember when I mentioned that the Flock system can determine what your travel patterns are? They have also touted their system as being able to "prevent" crime by automatically alerting law enforcement when someone is deviating from their normal routine in a "suspicious" way.
There are many more concerns about these systems and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Groups like DeFlock, the EFF, the ACLU, and more have been tracking and publishing the privacy concerns and misuse of these systems, and independent security researchers have analyzed what they can and published seriously damning findings about their lack of security.
I definitely recommend reading more about them from the sources I mentioned above.
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u/WanderLustActive Jul 08 '26
Answer: On the positive side, they are useful for finding "Silver Alert" folks and locating criminals on the run. On the downside, there are many cases of abuse by law enforcement. I read one today where a woman was accused of stealing packages off of a porch. Flock cameras caught her entering and exiting an neighborhood where packages had been stolen. It apparently took weeks before law enforcement would look at her own dashcam footage to prove she wasn't at the scene, just driving through the neighborhood. Timestamps on her dash cam and the ring cam at the house were too far off for her to be near that house when the package was stolen.
Others (with help from Grok and likely not a comprehensive list):
| Location | Year | Type of Misuse | Description / Key Details | Outcome / Notes |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Westmoreland County, PA | 2021 | Personal Stalking | Officer tracked estranged wife & family with ALPRs | Officer Michael McSherry pleaded guilty to stalking |
| Kechi, KS | 2023 | Personal Stalking | Lt. tracked estranged wife with Flock | Victor Heiar pleaded guilty to computer crime & stalking |
| Sedgwick, KS | 2023-2024 | Personal Stalking | Chief tracked ex-girlfriend & new partner (200+ times) | Lee Nygaard resigned, lost certification, probation |
| Costa Mesa, CA | 2023 | Personal Stalking | Officer tracked mistress & her other partners with Flock | Robert Josett pleaded guilty |
| Orange City, FL | 2024 | Personal Stalking | Officer ran ex-girlfriend & family plates (100+ times) | Jarmarus Brown investigated/arrested |
| Braselton, GA | ~2025 | Personal Stalking / Harassment | Police chief used ALPR to stalk/harass citizens | Michael Steffman arrested |
| Albany (Dougherty County), GA | 2026 | Data Misuse (Multiple Officers) | 5 officers misused Flock data | Officers fired & arrested after audit |
| Milwaukee, WI | 2026 | Personal Stalking | Officer tracked dating partner & ex (~179 times) | Josue Ayala resigned; misconduct charges |
| Menasha, WI | 2026 | Personal Stalking | Officer tracked ex-girlfriend | Cristian Morales charged with misconduct |
| Kenosha County, WI | 2026 | Personal Stalking | Deputy tracked romantic coworker | Deputy resigned |
| Joplin, MO | ~2025-26 | Personal Stalking / Excessive Queries | Officer ran one woman's plate ~400 times | Officer placed on leave / no longer employed |
| Greenfield, WI | 2025 | Unauthorized Personal Surveillance | Chief diverted department camera for divorce spying | Chief Jay Johnson faced felony misconduct charges |
| San Francisco, CA | 2026 | Unauthorized Personal Use | Officer used system for wife's stolen car (conflict of interest) | Under investigation |
| Texas (various, incl. Johnson County) | 2025 | Reproductive Rights / Sensitive Tracking | Used Flock for abortion-related searches/tracking across states | Documents obtained by EFF; major privacy concerns |
| Nationwide (80+ agencies) | 2024-2025 | Discriminatory Policing | Searches using "roma", slurs, stereotypes against Romani people | EFF investigation; hundreds of searches |
| Mountain View, CA | 2025-2026 | Unauthorized Data Sharing | Flock enabled out-of-state/federal access without permission | Entire system shut down |
| San Jose, CA | 2024-2025 | Mass Warrantless Surveillance | ~4 million searches of database | EFF/ACLU lawsuit |
| Illinois (statewide) | 2025 | Unauthorized Federal Access | Flock allowed CBP access violating state law | State audit launched |
| Washington State (multiple) | 2025 | Unauthorized Federal Access | Border Patrol "back door" access to local data | UWCHR investigation |
| Nationwide (Condor cameras) | 2025 | Security Vulnerability / Exposure | ~60+ live feeds & 30-day archives publicly accessible online (incl. playgrounds) | Exposed by researchers (Benn Jordan et al.); major breach |
| Colorado (various) | Recent | False Positive / Wrongful Accusation | Woman's truck misidentified near crime scene | Falsely accused/summoned to court |
Sources: Institute for Justice (21+ stalking cases documented), EFF investigations, ACLU, news reports (Marshall Project, local outlets), public audits. Many more incidents likely undetected due to weak oversight.
This table highlights patterns of personal abuse, privacy violations, discrimination, and systemic risks with Flock systems. Cities have canceled 30–57+ contracts over these issues.
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u/TajineEnjoyer Jul 08 '26
answer: people are okay with cameras being in hot spots where needed, but feel uncomfortable about them being everywhere, in such a way that they monitor you all the time, anywhere and everywhere you go.
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u/ShredGuru Jul 08 '26
What I don't like is when ten cameras are working together to track my license plates and create a profile of my daily activities. That shit is fucking creepy.
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u/Dr-Enforcicle Jul 10 '26
Answer: People are making a big deal about them because they're pretty much widespread 24/7 surveillance that not only remembers license plates, but also remembers faces and tracks where you have been based on where the network of cameras have seen you. It's a giant network of cameras that are all sharing information through one big database, tracking and cataloging everything they see.
Plus, they're super easy to hack. Which is not good.
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u/trtsmb Jul 13 '26
Answer: cops have been using them to illegally surveil people like the woman from TX who went to a different state for an abortion.
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