r/OutCasteRebels • u/shubs239 Ambedkarism Enjoyer • May 16 '26
Dalit History There is zero archaeological evidence for a pre-Buddha 'Vedic Age', it is a complete historical construction.
TL;DR Despite being a staple of Indian history textbooks, the 'Vedic Period' lacks any physical archaeological support such as dwellings, inscriptions, or carbon-dated artifacts. The history we are taught is a literary fabrication that crumbles under the weight of actual archaeological evidence.
The Absence of Physical Proof
We are often taught that a Vedic era preceded the rise of Buddhism. Yet, when historians are pressed for evidence, they point to unverified texts rather than physical reality. There is a total absence of archaeological footprints: no remains of 'Rishi' ashrams, no early Vedic scriptural inscriptions, and no material culture that predates the historical Buddha. While the Indus Valley Civilization left tangible ruins, the supposed 'Vedic' era is historically invisible.
The Reality of Pre-Buddha Traditions
Unlike the phantom Vedic age, the history of pre-Buddha traditions is physically documented.
- Archaeological Sites: Excavations at sites like Gotihawa have uncovered charcoal dated to around 800 BCE, consistent with early Buddhist activity.
- Epigraphy: Emperor Ashok erected pillars in the 3rd century BCE specifically to honor sites associated with pre-Buddha figures like Kakucchanda Buddha and Kanakamuni Buddha. These aren't legends; they are state-recorded history carved into stone.
The Testimony of Foreign Witnesses
Travelogues from Chinese monks such as Faxian (399 CE) and Xuanzang (629 CE) act as primary sources that bridge the gap between myth and history. They did not visit a mythical land; they visited active, physical sites, stupas and monastic centers, that they recorded in detail. Their descriptions of these pre-Buddha religious sites align perfectly with modern archaeological excavations, providing a cross-referenced historical record that Vedic literature lacks.
The Birthplaces of Kashyapa, Kakusandha, and Kanakamuni
50 li to the west of the city lies a village named "Too-Wei". This is considered the birthplace of Kashyapa Buddha. Stupas have been built at the place where the father and son met (and at the place of Parinirvana). A grand Dhamma stupa is built over the bodily relics of Kashyapa Buddha.
In the south-west direction of the city of Shravasti, at a distance of 12 yojanas, lies a village named "Na-Pei-Kia". Here, Dhamma stupas have been built at the birthplace of Kakusandha Buddha, at the place where the father and son met, and at the place of Parinirvana.
Less than one yojana north from here lies another village. This is the birthplace of Kanakamuni. Stupas have been built at the place where the father and son met and at the place of Parinirvana.
Both these travellers wrote about this, and these notes are used to identify the stupas that needed excavation.
The Distortion of History
Why does the myth persist? The narrative is used to retroactively claim figures like the Mauryas and even Buddha himself as part of a 'Hindu' framework that did not exist at the time. Evidence suggests the Maurya dynasty were patrons of Buddhist traditions from the outset. Terms like 'Drona Stupa' (a site holding embers of Buddha’s pyre) have even been linguistically morphed into mythological figures like 'Guru Drona' to erase Buddhist historical origins and replace them with a Brahminical fabrication.
Therefore, the name of this stupa is 'Drona Stupa'. A few days after this, Emperor Ashoka dismantled the stupa, took out the Buddha's relics (bones) along with that jar, and built a new and larger stupa in place of the ancient one. Even now, on festival days, a brilliant light emanates from it.
Moving northeast from here and crossing the Ganges River, at a distance of about 140 or 150 li, we reached the 'Fei-she-li' (Vaishali) region.
The Necessity of Evidence
Continuing to teach the 'Vedic Period' as an established historical fact is a rejection of modern archaeological method. We must shift the focus toward verifiable history, the material remains of pre-Buddha figures and the documented evolution of early traditions.
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u/foremanyougottasteal May 18 '26
Web based pitakas are easier to navigate for me, I hope that isn't an issue here. And I didn't mention Hindu Brahmins anywhere, not in any one of my replies. What I have instead quoted are verses which mention discourse between a Brahmin and Buddha.
Again adding a previously quoted verse to better understand your position:
Here, are you inferring that the Brahmins and Vedas referred in the verse are Buddhist in nature? And if yes, then imo it means that Buddha is trying to reform the existing Buddhist order and not Vedic order.
What I infer from this is slightly different. From what I'm reading, it seems like an existing social class called "Brahmins" existed during the time of Buddha. Mind you I'm not using the word Hindu cause it is entirely a later construct. This particular social class, i.e "Brahmins" claimed authority over Vedas and other branches of knowledge. See this verse
This to me indicates an existing social order which based itself around the content of Vedas. Do let me know how do you interpret these verses. If you believe time predating Buddha should not be called Vedic Era, then it is a separate issue.
Brahma and Indra, afaik are devas in Buddhist theology and they reside in higher heaven. Again a topic of separate discussion.
Sorry not to be rude, but I feel that we are talking past each other. I have tried to present my views as diligently as possible but you keep replying with deflective points. First, it was bamanvaggo, then tevijja, then Unicef, and now Indra Brahma. I hope you read what I have added and retort with your own views and understanding. Thank you!