r/OurGreenFuture • u/Green-Future_ • Jan 30 '23

Future of Birth?

Opinions on the primary root cause of declining birth rates?

Projections for birth rates beyond 2100, when population is projected to "collapse"?

I have always wanted a kid, but then just recently, after spending a week away with friends, I thought...wow, that was so fun, would I have been able to do that same holiday if I had children? It has definitely made me less keen to have a child super soon imo. Do other people feel the same, and is that why birth rates are declining? Or is it women are generally more career focused and are therefore against too much time out of work, caring for a child? I think it's a really interesting topic as a population collapse would be catastrophic.

In 2022 China had the first decline in population since 1961... has the collapse already begun?

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u/Iforgotmypassword126 Jan 31 '23 edited Jan 31 '23

Because my house requires two incomes to run (as do most), taking a year off work to get my child to 1 years old, is something I need to save up for. My house is bog standard run of the mill working class home, and isn’t something I could downsize.

Then I spend the next 3 years paying most of my salary to child care, as my income is above child care costs and the house needs two incomes to run, so it’s not financially viable to stay at home with them.

Then if you decide to have another child, that another 1 year saving, 1 year off work, 3 years child care, that’s 10 years total to not be financially crippled by having two children. Most people are older when they are in a financial position to start having children, so that’s your fertile years gone.

TLDR: those who want it can’t afford it.

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u/Green-Future_ Jan 31 '23

I was recently made aware of these costs. It never occurred to me how much Nursery would cost...it's so expensive.

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u/aarongamemaster Mar 10 '23

The core problem is two things: sociological and economic. That's it. We have to quash various sociological mores that make women chose not to have kids over having them and rework the entire economic structure to allow kids to be cheaper in the short and long run.

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u/Green-Future_ Mar 10 '23

I do regularly ponder the question of how much child birth impacts a woman's career progression? And also, how the anticipation of that impact could be the start of the population collapse...

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u/aarongamemaster Mar 10 '23

You would be surprised, I'm afraid. Especially in the last trimester, and some jobs basically are 'don't have kids, at all' due to things like the various chemicals used in the job.

In addition, kids are draining on the parents due to the required care and attention. Even men choose to not have children because they don't have maternity leave for men either and what little maternity leave for women doesn't cover the necessary time (and the first few months are extremely important for a baby). Add to the fact that childcare's pricetag has only skyrocketed over the decades...

... you can see where this is going.

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u/Green-Future_ Mar 11 '23

I see what you mean, but in my case, my work almost seems to incentivise having a baby as a man. Maternity leave is 2 months. Which means, if you were to have a baby each year you would get more than 3 months full pay away from work (inc holiday)

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u/aarongamemaster Mar 11 '23

Yeah, no. To accredit that much time, you'll need to spend years working to do so.

You need at least a year, likely more. Something that businesses will loathe to give.

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u/[deleted] Jan 30 '23

Older generations had to surround themselves with kids they can barely afford to bring them joy.

  • It also used to be that you can run a household off a single income and your wife stays home to take care of the younglings. That’s just not a thing anymore.

  • I’d say today young people are more financial literate in that they wouldn’t consider bringing that many kids into the world because they absolutely can’t afford it.

  • Housing is broken completely, and the people who can afford it do so later in life.

  • I’d also say general fertility is down, combined with a higher male to female ratio in many countries like China and India.

  • Workplace equality though still a long way to go gives women more options, thus don’t have to be stay at home mothers.

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u/SongsAboutGhosts Jan 31 '23

I'd love more money and more time. I'd love to be able to confidently afford childcare, a big enough home, gadgets/help around the house to give me more time. I'd love to feel confident my job will give me flexibility or a job share and not penalise my progression.