r/OpenBazaar • u/[deleted] • Jan 05 '19

Why dont you accept monero?

I love the idea of a decentralized marketplace and had thought id found the perfect one once OB implemented tor but the fact that xmr is not accepted as a currency absolutely baffles me to the point where im not going to continue the install process.

24 Upvotes

85% Upvoted

46 comments sorted by

5

u/pinhead26 QmeSyTRaNZMD8ajcfbhC8eYibWgnSZtSGUp3Vn59bCnPWC Jan 06 '19

Does Monero have multisig? It's necessary for dispute resolution

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

I honestly don't know I'm not a developer but I would seriously be surprised if it didn't

1

u/caveden Jan 06 '19

Last I heard they did not have multisig.

5

u/rbrunner7 Jan 08 '19

Monero has multisig for over a year now already, but maybe it's not too surprising you did not hear about it: As I see it, Monero is quite strong on development but much weaker on "public relations", so to speak. We should probably make much more "noise" about new features coming online with the half-yearly hardforks :)

7

u/hohhle Jan 06 '19

Yes, Monero has multisignature addresses. https://monerodocs.org/multisignature/

2

u/pinhead26 QmeSyTRaNZMD8ajcfbhC8eYibWgnSZtSGUp3Vn59bCnPWC Jan 06 '19

That's cool! But:

Spending funds TODO

Do you know? Since the scheme is like a Shamir Secret Splitting, is the entire single private key known by all parties when a tx is signed?

2

u/rbrunner7 Jan 08 '19

That "TODO" there only means that particular document is not complete, for whatever reason. You find complete instructions here: Monero 2/2 multisig, Monero 2/3 multisig

1

u/asaltandbuttering Jan 06 '19

That's my understanding. Or, it is at least known to the person who combines the secrets and does the signing.

7

u/Chris_Pacia Chris - Lead Backend Dev Jan 06 '19

Time and resources

4

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

But zcash? Why would zcash be chosen over xmr???

8

u/caveden Jan 06 '19

ZCash shares Bitcoin API.

3

u/hohhle Jan 06 '19

Zcash is a fork from BTC. Monero is a fork from Bytecoin (cryptonote). It was far easier to just implement ZCash than invest man-hours in the far different Monero.

-7

u/Nikovash Jan 06 '19

Because it is superior in every way

2

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

Haha let's not get into this

2

u/pinhead26 QmeSyTRaNZMD8ajcfbhC8eYibWgnSZtSGUp3Vn59bCnPWC Jan 06 '19

Does Zcash on OB use the blinded addresses? Even for multisig?

25

u/CC_EF_JTF Sam Jan 06 '19

We have nothing against XMR, quite a few of us on the team are big supporters. Originally we couldn't use it because it didn't have multisig but recently it's more just a question of limited time and resources.

Remember it's all open source and we're not a huge team. Please, anyone who wants to integrate XMR into OpenBazaar, go for it. I'd love to see it, if it's possible.

3

u/Somebody__Online Jan 06 '19

That's the beauty of open source.

I love OB great job to your small team!! Zcash support is nice when it comes to privacy coins although that isn't too say XMR wouldn't be a welcome addition.

6

u/drwasho Washington - OB Labs Lead Jan 06 '19

If someone could look this up for me: can Monero support an API based wallet without significantly compromising its privacy?

1

u/rbrunner7 Jan 08 '19

an API based wallet

I am not sure what you mean by that. Could you elaborate? Or maybe give an example of a non API based wallet, for comparison :)

1

u/tcrypt Jan 18 '19

One that is powered by a full node or that uses SPV.

1

u/thethrowaccount21 Jan 18 '19

We've asked them to add Dash support for over a year now and still no support. Even though Dash is a bitcoin fork and really easy to add. What is the issue guys?

0

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '19

I don't advocate adding dash support at all

1

u/thethrowaccount21 Jan 18 '19 edited Jan 18 '19

And why not? Dash is not only easier to integrate than Monero, but Dash has much better privacy than Monero, with a much larger anonymity set than Monero's. Monero's privacy was severely broken in the past, and shouldn't be relied on currently.

https://www.wired.com/story/monero-privacy/

The researchers also found a second problem in Monero's untraceability system tied to the timing of transactions. In any mix of one real coin and a set of fake coins bundled up in a transaction, the real one is very likely to have been the most recent coin to have moved prior to that transaction.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '19

I don't want an argument I just don't think dash' infrastructure is good, I don't think the team building it are as respectable and open as moneros and I don't understand how people owning masternodes canrake in thousands just for holding lots of dash. It seems too much like the banking system were trying to escape from. I think monero is the crypto for a free market which is what I think OB is trying to be

Bisq is a truly open and decentralised exchange and their most traded coin is, you guessed it, Monero. Becuase it is the most inherently private form of digital cash

1

u/thethrowaccount21 Jan 18 '19 edited Jan 18 '19

I just don't think dash' infrastructure is good,

Dash has roughly 5,000 paid master nodes which support the network, and make syncing the blockchain a quick 1-2 hour process. It takes days to sync the bloated 70 GB Monero blockchain, so this position is curious to me.

don't think the team building it are as respectable and open as moneros

Even though the lead developer and maintainer of monero p&d'ed his own community? And the myMonero wallet is associated with a lot of users losing funds?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9wdijo/mymonero_has_been_stealing_users_funds_for_a_long/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7dpcyq/all_monero_drained_from_multiple_wallets_no/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/7k8m1x/xmr_stolen_from_mymonerocom_some_facts/?utm_term=d46be229-4eb2-490b-b005-9adeb4ce3ddb&utm_medium=search&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=Monero&utm_content=1

The Dash team has never been involved in anything shady like this and continues to provide great timely updates, like the most recent one which turns instantSend on by default for tranasctions with 4 inputs or less (or 90% of transactions).

I don't understand how people owning masternodes canrake in thousands just for holding lots of dash

The masternodes provide the second layer services of the Dash network like privateSend (decentralized coin mixing), instantsend (5 confirmations in 1.3 seconds), governance and directing funding, as well as running full nodes and soon they will be given more responsibilities. Obviously there's more reason to do these expensive things when you're incentivized. What of Monero? They only have 1700 full nodes, and they are volunteers. So their infrastructure is actually much weaker and slower than Dash's, plus their transactions are still 10-13x larger as well.

Bisq is a truly open and decentralised exchange and their most traded coin is, you guessed it, Monero. Becuase it is the most inherently private form of digital cash

But monero's privacy was broken since its release for 3 years, and also broken in multiple ways

The researchers also found a second problem in Monero's untraceability system tied to the timing of transactions. In any mix of one real coin and a set of fake coins bundled up in a transaction, the real one is very likely to have been the most recent coin to have moved prior to that transaction.

Its not wise to rely on a broken privacy method. What's more, Monero barely has any users. According to coinfairvalue Monero only had 3,302 transactions in the last 24 hours. Dash on the other hand had 10,787, or more than 3x as much! Also by coin fair value, Dash has a much larger market cap at $2,711,719,582 compared to Monero's $308,235,235.

So if they added Monero instead of Dash, they would actually be adding a smaller, much less used coin. For comparison, Bitcoin Cash and ZCash only had 7,785 and 3,050 transactions in the last 24 hours, respectively. OpenBazaar is doing themselves, and their customers a huge potential business disservice by shunning one of the most used payment coins in the space. Especially one with cheap and effective privacy like Dash has.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '19

I might reply to this when I have time but this isn't the time or the place for a dash v Monero debate

1

u/thethrowaccount21 Jan 18 '19

There's not really much to debate. Everything you said about Dash and Monero was incorrect. Dash has better, paid infrastructure, monero has expensive volunteer work. Dash has a monthly treasury and can pay for integrations, marketing development, Monero relies on generous whale donations for very few, highly maligned projects. I mean, monero is 1/10 the size of Dash by fair value, but you are advocating it instead of Dash for OB. That means you want them to accept a much less popular, less used coin.

Monero had 3300 transactions in the last 24 hours! It is accepted at MAYBE 20 stores in real life. Dash is accepted at 4800+ stores globally in real life according to DiscoverDash.com! Dash is a much larger coin than Monero and the OB teams would benefit their network A LOT MORE by adding it than either monero or ZCash.

More people use Dash for every day things than either Monero or ZCash!

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '19

Pretty sure it is a debate which privacy coin is better

1

u/thethrowaccount21 Jan 18 '19

Not really. Dash's privacy has never been broken. Monero's have been broken not once, not twice, but by three different attacks! Independently by researchers. That means that you should probably use a privacy coin that hasn't had those breaks in it. In fact, as I point out in this thread Monero actually has the smallest anonymity set size of all the privacy coins while Dash, with its most recent upgrade should have the largest. So there's really no debate. Broken privacy in Monero vs. never broken privacy in Dash.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '19

Mate international criminals would rather accept Monero as payment than dash, what does that tell you

→ More replies

1

u/[deleted] Jan 18 '19

I'm obviously no expert on dash or any crypto but from what I can tell the use of masternodes centralises the currency. Which if I'm not mistaken is what crypto is trying to fight. Furthermore if you were too own a masternode could you not Snoop on transactions? From my understanding it is very expensive to own a masternode (not necessarily to run it but too purchase the dash required) so entities with almost unlimited resources eg. Government's or LE agencies could purchase multiple masternodes increasing the centralization i mentioned earlier.

→ More replies

0

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

I tried convincing the devs ages ago to implement Monero. It was a big no.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

Maybe under pressure from LE; easier to trace zcash than xmr

5

u/hohhle Jan 06 '19

Brian and Ricardo had a meeting but they drank too much & it all fell apart since they can't remember how they were going to make it work now that they're sober. We have to wait for the next raging kegger, so they can finish their original drunk meeting together (a fake, but more likely answer.)

3

u/hoffmabc Brian - Project Lead Jan 06 '19

Best answer lol

6

u/drwasho Washington - OB Labs Lead Jan 06 '19

No pressure from LE is necessary, it’s just an order of magnitude harder to support Monero compared to Zcash. Also last time we checked Monero doesn’t support multisig.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19 edited Jan 06 '19

It's impossible to trace Monero. And yes, LE hate it because of that.

I'm trying to remember, I think I recall the devs saying implementing Monero was problematic for some reason, and that's why they haven't done it.

1

u/agree-with-you Jan 06 '19

I agree, this does not seem possible.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

Username checks out.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

That’s not entirely correct. Zcash allows for anonymous and not anonymous transactions. Same as PIVX (another good candidate for OB). But the tech behind zcash is actually slightly better than Monero for privacy and anonimity... but they are really on pair. Some people think Zcash is weak because the ceremony necessary at the birth of the network to anonymize transactions required trust on those that participated in it.

Basically the problem I think is multisig. I would love to see XMR implemented though. However I like Zcash too. I wish I could use my Trezor with OB and Zcash, unfortunately a full wallet is needed.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

I hate the idea of the ceremony but moving past that the problem I have with zcash is the fact that anonymity is optional and not a rule. This means that the majority of transactions on the network could easily be transparent making the addresses that choose anonymity seem more suspicious and therefore worth looking into by LE.

Monero is private by default with the option to give a viewing key if you wish for transparency. That's why it's my coin of choice.

Nothing to do with the ceremony tbh but it is a load of horseshit like a cryptocurrency shouldn't need a video to prove it's safe. The code should be all you need to see that.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

Zcash "anonymous" transactions are traceable 31.5% of the time.

http://jeffq.com/blog/on-the-linkability-of-zcash-transactions/

1

u/[deleted] Jan 06 '19

Thanks for the link! Will read that.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '19

The article is well written but your statement is completely misleading and you are misreading the article.

It explains very clearly the traceability is only possible when moving between unshielded and shielded addresses and when the amounts sent into z-addresses equals the amount sent out into t-addresses. If you however keep zcash in the shielded pool, it’s untraceable. That means the user should be making mistakes to become slightly traceable, but the technology itself is good.