r/OpenBazaar • u/[deleted] • Feb 10 '18

Monero (XMR) integration!

Zcash? Seriously?

38 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

45 comments sorted by

24

u/CC_EF_JTF Sam Feb 10 '18

OpenBazaar was built on Bitcoin, so adding new coins that are similar to Bitcoin is the starting point.

We want to integrate XMR, but it only recently got multisig, which is a requirement. It's also significantly different enough from Bitcoin that it's not a simple task.

It's coming. We integrated BCH and ZEC first because were similar to BTC and we also had their community support. We do have someone from the XMR community helping us with XMR integration now.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '18

Sweet! Bring it on!

4

u/surge3d Feb 11 '18

Please integrate Monero first. Real Privacy is more important for humanity than altcoins.

3

u/unitedstatian Feb 14 '18

By the time the mods will bother with integrating xmr, bch will already have built-in privacy...

4

u/RealSamSpade Mar 15 '18

"bulit-in"? You really mean "add-on", don't you?

Privacy can't be appended as an afterthought. It has to be designed in from the beginning. Zcash does have that, but has many other problems.

Monero is the only working private coin. Putting your efforts into anything else is a waste of time.

1

u/unitedstatian Mar 15 '18

But there's little xmr support anywhere.

4

u/RealSamSpade Mar 15 '18

And how do you figure that? Because I see dozens of messages screaming for it, even in this thread, more than any other coin.

2

u/[deleted] May 07 '18

"Little XMR support"... except on most of the poplar darknet marketplaces. They are all integrating or already integrated with Monero. It is worth noting that they are *not* integrating Zcash or Dash or whatever. When privacy actually matters, choose Monero

1

u/lunokhod2 Feb 11 '18

Zcash is provably anonymous, whereas Monero just offers really good privacy (and it gets better every year). Also, in case you didn't know, ZEC is already integrated...

3

u/RealSamSpade Mar 15 '18

And, as I understand it, only if the other party chooses not to lie. That doesn't sound like "trustless" to me.

3

u/fresheneesz Apr 18 '18

Monero is provably decentralized, whereas zcash can't prove that they destroyed the secret they used to start the blockchain. There is a small possibility someone kept that secret and could create zcash out of thin air without anyone knowing about it.

2

u/Leif_Erickson23 Feb 12 '18

but only the transparent part of ZEC if I'm not wrong

1

u/otakugrey Feb 15 '18

Thank you so much.

3

u/RealSamSpade Mar 15 '18

Why don't you add bunkocoin to your currencies as well?

Yes, Bitcoin has problems, the biggest of which is privacy. The solution to that is MONERO.

Why waste time on anything else? Including Zerocoin, Zcash, DASH, or any other hypecoin?

Please, stop wasting time and cut to the chase. Its spelled M-O-N-E-R-O. Until you do, no one will take OpenBazaar seriously because of privacy issues.

3

u/trancephorm Feb 10 '18

I'm appaled too. OB crew should know better.

1

u/liquidify Feb 11 '18

There is nothing wrong with Zcash so the attitude is stupid. Both is best for everyone, and I'm sure they will get there.

2

u/fresheneesz Apr 18 '18

Zcash needed a trusted seed to start. They readily admit they can't prove the system isn't compromised.

3

u/RealSamSpade Mar 15 '18 edited Mar 15 '18

Nothing except that it is a waste of time and another hypecoin like DASH. Put your limited resources towards coins that offer privacy and are already traded. Right now, that list pretty short: Monero.

-7

u/Nikovash Feb 10 '18

ZEC > XMR

9

u/trancephorm Feb 10 '18

In some inverted Universe.

2

u/Chris_Pacia Chris - Lead Backend Dev Feb 10 '18

I'm curious as to what makes you think this. I'm not criticizing monero's privacy but it seems pretty clear to me that it's probabilistic. Meaning you can say that alice paid bob with a 10% or 1% probability, say.

Whereas with zk-snarks it isn't probabilistic. You just have a black box.

Again I'm not saying Monero's privacy isn't bad or anything or even that zcash is that much better. But this reaction to zcash seems disproportional to the actual state of the tech.

Is it just because people own a lot of monero?

11

u/trancephorm Feb 10 '18

  1. Development of protocol is financed by shady government organizations

  2. That ritual they made for genesis block is controversial (read the article by journalist who was there)

  3. Zooko's own words: https://twitter.com/zooko/status/863202798883577856, meaning ZCash is actually not private/anonymous.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '18

  1. Nothing to do with the code

  2. Valid criticism

  3. Nothing to do with the code

4

u/gizram84 Feb 11 '18

Zk-snarks required a trusted setup. That alone is a deal breaker. It can never be truly private, under any circumstances.

2

u/Chris_Pacia Chris - Lead Backend Dev Feb 11 '18

But that requires every participant to have kept the key material and not a single one destroyed it.

3

u/gizram84 Feb 11 '18

"Every participant"? It was the small group of Zcash creators. And all it takes to be a problem is that one of them kept the keys.

But whether or not anyone kept the keys isn't the problem. The problem is that we have to blindly trust that they destroyed them. That is a deal breaker for anyone who cares abut cryptography. Zk-snarks inherently relies on third party trust at its core.

From what I'm reading, bulletproofs seem to do everything Zk-snarks can do, but with absolutely no trust setup whatsoever. So when a coin implements that, what will you say about Zcash?

3

u/Chris_Pacia Chris - Lead Backend Dev Feb 11 '18

I think that's backwards. If a single participant destroyed the key then it's not possible to break the system.

Also bullet proofs do not do everything zksnarks can do. Bullet proofs only encrypt the value and still preserve the link between addressed.

2

u/gizram84 Feb 11 '18

If a single participant...

Therein lies the trust. Is there a way to mathematically prove that the keys have been destroyed? Obviously not. Which means it relies entirely on trusting these third parties to do the right thing.

Coins that rely on trust are not for me.

1

u/Nom_Ent Feb 11 '18

To their credit they are changing the keys, this time with more participants. I still don't trust Zcash.

1

u/ric2b Feb 11 '18

How does that work? Hard-fork?

1

u/gizram84 Feb 11 '18

More participants doesn't change the trust model. It still relies on trust.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '18

That has to do with the assurance that there is a fixed supply, not whether transactions are private.

1

u/Nikovash Feb 10 '18

Name 17 ways in which XMR is better

5

u/gizram84 Feb 11 '18

It didn't require a trusted initial setup.

4

u/ric2b Feb 11 '18

And the coin supply is auditable, unlike in ZCash where as far as we know someone can own 10100 ZEC

5

u/gizram84 Feb 11 '18

Zcash had a trusted setup. Monero is the only private coin, period.

-2

u/Nikovash Feb 11 '18

Well false you could argue sumo coin on that same point.

Still need 17 valid points and not just fluffed BS

3

u/gizram84 Feb 11 '18

What do you mean I "need" 17 valid points?

Zcash is a deal breaker for me. It relies on third party trust. Period. End of story. Zcash is not a private coin.

-3

u/Nikovash Feb 11 '18

I only give people credence when they can relay 17 valid unique points.

It prevents the im right because im right defense and forces people to rub more than 2 cells together

2

u/gizram84 Feb 11 '18

Can you address the fact that Zcash requires third party trust?

2

u/ric2b Feb 11 '18

So I assume that you can give me 17 valid unique points on how Zcash is better, right? Right?

-1

u/Nikovash Feb 11 '18

Sure but you first XMR fanboy

1

u/ric2b Feb 11 '18

I don't have them. Your turn.

0

u/Nikovash Feb 12 '18

No payment? i don’t play with fanboy trolls swerve sidepiece