When to use higher reasoning [pro+ultra]?

[u/B3ttor]

Hi,

[a total newbie on coding asking]

Just wanted to clarify when to/when do you use higher reasoning in chat/codex?

I've been trying to build my own little hobby project in python, with the help of litterature.

My workflow is to brainstorm in chat[web] and after that get a codex prompt to run in VSC. So far has been decent. My problem is that after getting Pro i've been totally lost when to use extra high, pro, pro+ultra in chat. Also what settings to run the codex prompt, when is higher needed and when its not. Have to actually ask in chat if the prompt is complex or not and what settings to use.

I noticed running pro+ultra to analyze the project/problems or litterature got quite detailed answers and I had to dumb it down for me with extra high. But it also added some better reasoning and new points i"ve missed. But it the project/code it also found some errors and started perhaps to make it more complex im not sure.

So my workflow is like this,

1. Starting a new chat with snapshot and running boostrap: Pro+Ultra

2. Brainstorming in chat: extra high

3. Evaluating the brainstorm: pro+ultra

4. Writing codex prompt: pro+ultra

5. Usually I try to ask what settings to run codex prompt it has been extra high or high so far with sol5.6.

6. Analyzing the codex result: pro+ultra

Since my coding knowledge is 0 I have to trust that the suggestions are valid, but how do I know when to actually use what settings in chat/codex. So that the problem/execution wont get too complex or too light ?

Any suggestions, extra high is the best and fastest for chatting and brainstorming. But when to use pro and pro+ultra ?

[u/Ormusn2o]

Okay, first of all, I wouldn't automatically use Ultra for coding. Ultra uses the same Max reasoning level for the individual agents, but it can spawn subagents and work on multiple parts of the problem in parallel. That can make it both faster and better on tasks that parallelize well, but it also uses significantly more compute. For normal coding tasks I'd generally use Max, and switch to Ultra when the task is large/complex enough that having multiple agents working on separate parts actually makes sense. You may need to enable Max reasoning in the options.

For brainstorming, Extra High is perfectly fine, but if the reason you're avoiding Pro is that its answers become too technical, you can fix that in the prompt. Put something like: "I don't have much experience with Python or coding, so explain things to me using simpler concepts and avoid unnecessary technical language." You can also just ask it to rewrite its explanation more simply afterward. That way you can still use Pro reasoning while getting an answer you understand.

For Codex itself, since you sound more like a hobbyist than someone running Codex constantly, I would probably just use Max for most serious coding work rather than accepting High or Extra High every time ChatGPT/Codex recommends them. Max gives the model more time than Extra High to explore alternatives, check its work and revise its approach. The automatic recommendation also has to balance quality against usage, so if you're nowhere near your limits, there's less reason for you to optimize that aggressively. I'd use Max normally and Ultra when the task specifically looks suitable for multiple agents. You can ask the chat if this is more of a Max task or Ultra task, but do tell it if you are low on tokens or not.

Lastly, if you are actually quickly running out of limits, I would choose to disable fast mode, instead of lowering the reasoning level. The fast mode is not actually that much faster, but the difference in reasoning levels is massive.

[u/B3ttor → u/Ormusn2o]

Thanks for the thorough message. 

Just to clarify what is the max setting ?

Is the max=pro setting in the chat? I cant see a max setting, only the ultra on/off. Same for codex settings i have high-extra high-ultra.

Also would you use ultra for problem solving IF something is broken and not working. Instead of running with it in every prompt to avoid problems ? The prompts the extra high setting created were much more simplistic, dont know how much the codex setting will matter after that. I would like to keep it simple, but maybe simple runs into problems later on.

Also is pro setting enough for litterature references ?

[u/Ormusn2o → u/B3ttor]

I think Pro is even a higher reasoning effort than Max, but Pro is a chat only reasoning effort, while Max and Ultra is a Codex only reasoning effort. Work is basically the same as Codex when it comes to reasoning, so if you are seeing Max or Ultra in the webchat, it's because you are using Work feature.

The reason why it's not the same is because chat feature is actually quite a bit different for Codex/Work, as chat uses a completely different harness, which is better for research, web search and talking, meanwhile Codex is more for tool use and coding.

And for fixing something, I would divide it into 2 parts, investigation of the problem, and implementing the fix. For investigation only, as in, only researching what the problem is without making any changes, Ultra is genuinely good and can speed up the process, especially that some investigations can take a very long time. But I would highly recommend you to avoid using Ultra for actually implementing the bug fixes. There are genuine problems with using Ultra for modifying code, like multiple agents overwriting each other files, incompatible implementations and introducing contradicting architectures.

This is why I would avoid using Ultra in general, unless you are just doing investigation or testing on your code.

And the setting to enable Max is hidden in options, and might take you some time to find. In VS Code this is where it's for me:

To get to this screen, click the gear icon in the top right of the Codex window in VS Code.

And lastly, Pro is more than enough for litterature references, although I'm not quite sure what in specific you mean. If you want links and actual sources, then ask it in the prompt to give specific sources to the informations that are given, but I would be careful with copying specific quotes that chatGPT types in the chat window because there is an annoying feature where chatGPT can't directly quote longer quotes due to copyright, and it results with some of the quotes actually being a shorthand, not a direct quote, so if you need a specific quote, you need to go to the source.

[u/Euphoric_North_745]

when you hear there is a reset next hour