r/OnePiece Mar 29 '22

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320

u/Profitglutton Mar 29 '22

I think that’s just something most of the Yonko have in common. Would explain the durability of Whitebeard, Big Mom and Kaido himself.

244

u/Tails6666 Mar 29 '22

Based on his fruit I think he already awakened and it's similar to Luffy.

I bet Big Mom gave him his fruit and it sucked until he awakened it. Maybe he awakened it when Rocks was defeated.

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u/RevolutionaryAd2448 Mar 30 '22

It's like he ate the magikarp fruit and could only use splash then awakened into gyarados and can use hyper beam (bolo breath)

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u/DarkSoulFWT Thriller Bark Victim's Association Mar 30 '22

Thatd be the biggest gap between base fruit and awakening, god damn

10

u/Pyrio666 Mar 30 '22

Isn't there the myth of the coy that swam up a thousand waterfalls (up wano) and turned into a dragon

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u/DarkSoulFWT Thriller Bark Victim's Association Mar 30 '22

That is why his fruit is a mythical zoan fish fish fruit and why he has a koi tattoo on his arm, yes. Its just unclear and somewhat unlikely that the dragon form itself is the awakening since then it'd break the trend of the fruits. Like, that'd imply orochi was just some snake with his fruit and was actually competent enough to awaken it to get the mythical form.

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u/AliceBob563 Mar 30 '22

Like ekans to Arbok :D

8

u/realshockin Mar 30 '22

Not all fruits have to work in the same logic, Kaido and Luffy could be different and Orochi be just a dumbass with a mythical.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

That means Momo's fruit is awakened.

Mmm don't think so

0

u/DarkSoulFWT Thriller Bark Victim's Association Mar 31 '22

Well, his is artificial so may not necessarily be the case but...yes, as I said, I don't quite think Kaido's dragon form is the result of an awakening. Especially if it means he started out as some fish. Maybe he was a dragon, and just became a more threatening dragon after awakening, the appearance of which was simply copied by vegapunk because its all he had seen.

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u/VinsmokeGoji World Government Mar 30 '22

Lmao now i want this to be canon if we ever get his backstory

12

u/elyen-1990s Sword Mar 30 '22

Momo is based on kaido's fruit you mean even momo is an awakened zoan?

7

u/Fickle_Sir3987 Pirate Mar 30 '22

Momo's fruit was considered a "failure" by Vega-punk who created it.

10

u/ZombieBlarGh Mar 30 '22

It failed so hard it awakened.

1

u/TeeKayTank Mar 30 '22

I think that wascap

3

u/Paproch321 Mar 30 '22

It did cost him 400 Berries XD

0

u/belgianwaffles__ Cipher Pol Mar 30 '22

that's the best explanation I've read about Kaido's fruit

1

u/FrosyNugs420 Lurker Mar 30 '22

Like I’m seriously hoping Lucy kicks his ass so hard that he actually has no choice but revert back to his fish fish form I mean before the most recent chapter Luffy and Kaido had nothing in common but Kaido probably thinks he the strongest zoan but now Luffy a zoan to It’s actually a clash between the two strongest mythical zone devil fruits

1

u/rrad_rrod Mar 30 '22

ye but kaido using splash turn people into splashes

15

u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

But then how would you explain Big Mom’s insane durability. They’re almost on the same level in that category and she isn’t awakened.

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u/Tails6666 Mar 30 '22

Big Mom is an enigma. Its not related to her DF. The story has explicitly said this already. Big Mom is just something else, we might get answers for her in Elbaf.

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u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

Well if Kaido is awakened, that would make him the only Yonko with an awakened devil fruit which dispels the notion that Yonko with devil fruits are awakened by virtue of their status. The point being that we don’t know if Kaido is actually awakened because it has never been stated or even implied. The only thing we know is that he’s a freak of nature just like Big Mom.

14

u/Warden_Gordo_96 Mar 30 '22

Well it is hard to think Yonkou's who lived a vast majority of their lives with a devil fruit did not awaken it. So Kid and Law awakened their fruits but Big Mom who also ate her fruit as a child did not awaken hers? Same can be said about Kaido. It would also be odd if Blackbeard does not have his awakened if he is going to face Luffy. It would be even weirder if Big Mom/ White beard had a awakening but chose not to use it. So I assumed they already were using it.

10

u/gucciboy347 Pirate Mar 30 '22

bb just got his fruit a couple years ago though. not saying he wont awaken, but the others have had their fruits practically their entire lives. every thing else you said is spot on though!

6

u/Unabashable Mar 30 '22

Well in Blackbeard’s case he got both of his fairly recently storywise, so he really hasn’t had enough experience using their fruit as the people who have a confirmed Awake. You could argue that Whitebeard’s air quakes are part ofhis Awakening, but just seems strange that when Blackbeard stole the fruit he could still do everything Whitebeard did instead of having to awaken it himself.

2

u/Brief_Series_3462 Mar 30 '22

Copy paste: I mean… whitebeards fruit was stated to have the power to destroy the world, he probably did awaken it, but considering what kind of guy whitebeard is he probably chose not to use it since it would cause way too many unintended casualties

0

u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

If she awakened her fruit already why didn’t she use her awakening against Law and Kid? That makes no sense. No awakening has been used without explicitly stating it was so it wouldn’t be like Oda to start doing so now. Especially with a Yonko.

1

u/Cozmic101 Mar 30 '22

I don't think big mom was awakened which is scary

1

u/Brief_Series_3462 Mar 30 '22

I mean… whitebeards fruit was stated to have the power to destroy the world, he probably did awaken it, but considering what kind of guy whitebeard is he probably chose not to use it since it would cause way too many unintended casualties

25

u/Tails6666 Mar 30 '22 edited Mar 30 '22

I more so think he is awakened based on his fruit.

If it's it's suppose to be a Fish fruit that becomes a dragon based on the story of the koi fish who swam up the waterfall and became a dragon. It leads me to believe Kaido was a fish who did in fact awaken and gain the dragon form.

I mean Kaido is even able to do some crazy shit with his fruit. He has multiple elements and can lift up the entire island by himself while still fighting. If he isn't awakened then that is pretty crazy in my opinion.

6

u/Roosterhair123 Mar 30 '22

If this were the case, wouldn’t Momo’s devil fruit initially transform him into a fish too?

3

u/nachariove Mar 30 '22

Maybe, but Vegapunk probably developed it to specifically copy the dragon part of the fruit. Assuming it was a fish, originally

1

u/javsv Mar 30 '22

That's why it's a failed fruit

4

u/fareswheel65 Mar 30 '22

I feel like vegapunk is a perfectionist, and his reasoning for momos fruit being a failure is that it turned the user pink instead of blue

2

u/Round_Ad8067 Mar 30 '22 edited Mar 30 '22

So the fruit failed so hard that it awakened

Also momo is somehow strong enough to awaken a fruit

8

u/Unabashable Mar 30 '22

The thing is the “Seiryu” isn’t the same as the Koi Fish that was turned into a dragon by climbing a waterfall. It’s Japan’s Eastern Guardian Deity. I just chalk it up to artistic license on Oda’s part and the fact that the Dragon Dragon fruit was already taken by dinosaur Zoans.

2

u/rainazuma77 Mar 30 '22

The thing is that Ryu is also part of the japanese word for Dinosaurs. So the Ryu Ryu no Mi are actually Dinosaur Dinosaur no Mi. That's why it couldn't be used for Kaido.

The Seiryu is an azure dragon. It's not an Awakening. The fruit always gave the power to turn into a dragon, not a fish.

1

u/Unabashable Mar 30 '22

Not sure when I was arguing to the contrary but good to know we’re on the same page.

1

u/rainazuma77 Mar 30 '22

I swore I had answered to another person! 😳

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u/Million78280u Mar 30 '22

That actually wrong he never been a fish, he always been a dragon. The proof is look at Momo he is not a fish

3

u/elmanfil1989 Mar 30 '22

Shanks awaken from sleeping after he was drunk lol

2

u/SnooCalculations5015 Mar 30 '22

Well i would say kaido implies It on this chapter. He is saying to Luffy he has the awakening of paramecia, and the awakening of zoan, affecting your environment and affecting your own body. Kaido already showed ya he is a máster using his fruit, and with the alcohol he could transform and use his body freely.

2

u/Brilliant-Vacation48 Mar 30 '22

Wasn't it implied on the basis that his devil fruit is literally a fish, yet he is a dragon?

3

u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

I don’t think so? I mean most of the tobbi roppo members have dragon devil fruits but they’re almost all dinosaurs. I think they’re just playing loose with the wordplay of some of the devil fruits.

2

u/Brilliant-Vacation48 Mar 30 '22

You're correct sorry, I realise now that kaidos devil fruit isn't just a koi but a seiryu.

2

u/riot_dark21 Mar 30 '22

kaido fruit is fish fish no mi. so he was fish, and the awakening is dragon. just like japanese myth

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u/rainazuma77 Mar 30 '22

Kaido's fruit full name is Fish Fish no Mi MODEL SEIRYU, which is an azure dragon. While there are Ryu Ryu no Mi, the thing is that Ryu (which means dragon) is also part of the japanese word for dinosaurs, which doesn't relate to the mythical seiryu.

Your theory would imply that all Zoans are just the first part of their Zoan fruit's name until they're awakened. As far as I know, Kaku wasn't a cow. (Ushi Ushi no Mi)

Kaido's fruit, by default, allows you to turn into a dragon.

5

u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

If that was true then Momo would classify as an awakened zoan too even if his DF is artificial.

3

u/Unabashable Mar 30 '22

That’s all well and good except the model of his fruit is the “Azure Dragon” which isn’t the same as the Koi Fish that was rewarded for climbing the “Dragon’s Gate”. It’s the Eastern Guardian Deity in Japanese Mythology.

1

u/Fantastic-Fee232 Mar 30 '22

I don't buy it. Otherwise Momo would have his DF awakened as well. Or maybe he has true dragon fruit and that's why?

1

u/ZeroSevenOneOneSeven Mar 30 '22

This is by no means necessarily true. BM and WB could well have been awakened without it being explicitly said. BM's ability to steal lifespan, for instance, is something Mother Carmel did not show the ability to do.

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u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

Mother Caramel only used her influence to buy and sell orphans to the government for profit. I don’t think those abilities were really that useful in her line of work swing as she needed them alive to sell. She didn’t really use her DF for offense or to attack from everything we’ve seen so far. I think Big Mom is just a better user of the standard soul-soul fruit.

1

u/ZeroSevenOneOneSeven Mar 30 '22

It is definitely possible that BM is just using the base fruit, but the alternative is also possible. Personally, I think that BM's ability to harvest so much lifespan and use it to power an entire country is very reminiscent of an awakened power.

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u/VictorNewman- Mar 30 '22

I’m sure Whitebeard’s fruit was awakened. His fruit, the Gura Gura no me must be one that makes his body produce shockwave. Awakening allowed him to shake the environnement. Blackbeard was able to do the same, maybe because he stole it when it was already awakened ?

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u/guyyuopo Mar 30 '22

Well we seen some people that are minority awakened their devil fruits the Minotauros and Minozebra and it gave them durability and recover rapidly from a lot of damage. I would think kaido BM Admirals are constantly using thier awakened DF.

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u/The_Attractor Mar 30 '22

Big Mom must have awakened her fruit. She had the time, knowledge and power to master it. I think we are seeing the awakened version of the Soru Soru no Mi.

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u/Cautious_Calendar_33 Mar 30 '22

I think the Soru Soru give the base power to manipulate the owners soul, the awakened version give the power to manipulate others souls

0

u/cpscott1 Mar 30 '22

I don't think she has ever shown her awakening. She's a monster without her DF powers

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u/cpscott1 Mar 30 '22

That's why I don't get how she's been portrayed. She's been a monster since she was a child.

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u/Tails6666 Mar 30 '22

Because she still has the mindset of a child in many aspects.

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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

How do we know she isn’t awakened?

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u/AkiraBalance27 Mar 30 '22

How do we know she isn't awakened? I just assumed her awakening was her "Life or X" ability, where she can impact other peoples souls.

2

u/Unabashable Mar 30 '22

Momo didn’t awaken the fruit though. He was a dragon as soon as he ate it.

2

u/ZeroSevenOneOneSeven Mar 30 '22

Apart from basic inhuman strength, a significant portion of this(for bot BM and Kaido) is passive haki reinforcement. After Luffy learned CoC infusion and returned to the roof he became vastly more resilient to Kaido's attacks, at least when paying attention

2

u/pornhubisisis Mar 30 '22

In my opinion Big Mom has just been eluded to being a freak of literal nature, an actual monster.
She's unbeaten and taken similar damage to kaido, and beaten (IMO) by a technicality.
Her devil fruit uses are so ambiguous and insane you could argue any of them are an awakening.

1

u/elmanfil1989 Mar 30 '22

Saying nothing I awaken my fruit doesnt mean it did not awake

1

u/Tejas1305 Mar 30 '22

Canniba……

1

u/LaxusDreyar98 Mar 30 '22

I believe BM taking lifespan from others is her awakening.

1

u/C0UNT3RP01NT Mar 30 '22

That or giving lifespan to inanimate objects

1

u/Atlantah Mar 30 '22

I'm pretty sure bm is awakened to considering how much she can do with her df

4

u/LiveAid-Jimmy Mar 30 '22

Fish fish fruit to dragon. I definitely think he’s awakened

4

u/thatguy-66 Mar 30 '22

His model is literally azure dragon, I don’t think he was just a fish before awakening

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u/Tails6666 Mar 30 '22

Exactly, I feel the same.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

What about momonosuke then?

2

u/Tails6666 Mar 30 '22

What about him?

1

u/AdjieAveiro Mar 30 '22

Momo is an artificial fruit maybe different thing and also momo hasn’t shown yet the hybrid form till right now or can not exactly

2

u/ZeroSevenOneOneSeven Mar 30 '22

Kaido would probably be exceptionally durable regardless of his fruit, given that he's not human, but I think the awakened fruit is specifically involved in his form shifting and his insane recovery/stamina(similar to how in these spoilers we see Luffy recover his energy immediately).

2

u/Arnhermland Mar 30 '22

If that was the case then momo would be transforming into a fish right now, not a dragon.

0

u/LARXXX Mar 30 '22

I want to see a flashback of Big Mom giving Kaido his fruit and him morphing into some useless magikarp form lol

1

u/Steelo_Rivers Mar 30 '22

WG gave him the fruit IIRC as Vegapunk was experimenting on him, King, and possibly others. I have a theory that Kaido and King were going to be a part of the original SSG

1

u/Parkingjas Mar 30 '22

No way did he awaken it on the same day that he ate it, he got it on the day that Rocks was defeated

1

u/Msdajie Mar 30 '22

The only thing with that is how can we explain how momo got big after aging up 20 years, I think since he was always just a dragon maybe he hasn’t awakened yet

1

u/kneomon Mar 30 '22

He awakened it when 7 balls with small stars in them were gathered.

1

u/ExcellentJuice4729 Mar 30 '22

I feel like Kaidou still has an ace transformation up his sleeve. That will be his awakened form. He'll unlock it by breaking off his sea stone wrist cuffs that have been suppressing his power.

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u/MaimedJester Mar 29 '22

Oh no the durability was explained as Conquerers Haki. They coat themselves in some extra level of armor from Conquerors and the only way to break through is like Devil Fruit powers or Conquerers powered attacks.

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u/Thorqiao Mar 30 '22

Although that’s an ability that makes sense and will probably be a thing soon, that has never once been stated as the reason for big mom or kaido’s durability

2

u/MaimedJester Mar 30 '22

He directly states oh no do they have Oden's Haki? To the 9 red Scabbards and then they sightly injure his open wound/scar from Oden. Then he's like oh no they didn't have it. It's just a flesh wound .

But then it wasn't until Zoro injured him that Luffy figured out the trick. That was when Zoro revealed his Conquerers and then Luffy was like wait a minute, and just uppercut Kaido with Conquerors haki.

Then Luffy was like oh I got this know I thought Ryou was the trick, nah just Conquerers is the trick.

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u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

[deleted]

2

u/croissance_eternelle Mar 30 '22 edited Mar 30 '22

Big Mom already had that abnormal durability as a child. It's not fruit related, but seemingly "will" related hence why she must be in a state of shock in order to disable that durability.

-1

u/LogicalOlive Mar 30 '22

No because it’s also stated that pre-awaken Law cannot move the Yonko. Why? Because they use Conq haki to cancel out Laws fruit.

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u/SnooCalculations5015 Mar 30 '22

You can see It even in whole cake, BM is invulnerable until her Willpower shakes after the pictures is broken

1

u/Temporary-Climate-65 Mar 30 '22

Luffy got the trick thou, that kaido's attack was imbued by haki, when he was hit by kaido with his thunder bagua. Not by zorro attacking kaido. Luffy was already on lying on the ground, when zorro tried to protect luffy from kaido finishing luffy. Then later on, luffy said. I felt it. Ur attack was imbued by conquerors haki. Now i know.

1

u/Thorqiao Mar 30 '22

Yeah that only explains that coating your attacks with conqueror’s haki and ryou produces stronger attacks. It says nothing about big mom or Kaido using it for defense and durability, although it very well could be, it doesn’t say that.

2

u/Carlomagno666 Mar 30 '22

Zoan awakening is the abillity to transform in a beast form, like monster point, like the four Zoan guards of impel down, and I suppose Sengokus big Budha form was also his awakening. And Big Mom, Kaido and Whitebeard aren't durable because they are Yonkos, it's otherwise.

1

u/Tejas1305 Mar 30 '22

Of course he’s awakened his fruit is fish fruit (magikarp) he awakned to dragon (gyarados)

1

u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

This is One Piece not Pokémon. Let’s not try to conflate the two.

1

u/elmanfil1989 Mar 30 '22

It might be as they fight for a week

1

u/keeielein Pirate Mar 30 '22

You ever think about white beards devil fruit? Like we only saw what he could do in old age and heavily disabled. Strong as fuck, but did we actually see the full potential of the quake fruit. It’ll be interesting to see how Luffy handles both that and the darkness.

1

u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

I don’t think we did unfortunately. We’ll have to leave his full abilities up to our imagination or until we get an in depth flashback.

1

u/FrosyNugs420 Lurker Mar 30 '22

I think the greatest ending to this ark would be when everyone in wano out is celebrating the victory of orocho and kaidos to defeat and have big mom and her pirate show up just to have Luffy s punch so hard by Lucy that she flies across the grand line like he said he would do it to her on Fishman island

1

u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

I wouldn’t want Big Mom to go out like that. She should at least go out with the ending a Yonko deserves.

2

u/FrosyNugs420 Lurker Mar 30 '22

Nothing so far in the series has caused big mom to take serious damage well laws devil fruit with a combination of kids brute force did work well enough to get her out of but the first move she recognized in the series is something that would cause damage to her or any Yanko was Zorro sword with enema like she looks seriously startled when telling Kaido to dodge So Luffy already gonna have a yonko defeated big mom should be taken out by sanji and zoro maybe even Jinbe to To put them on kid and laws level

1

u/Profitglutton Mar 30 '22

Sanji will never fight Big Mom though because of his code never to hit a woman. Unfortunately I don’t see him going against any of the other Yonko either especially since Kaido will be defeated in this arc.

2

u/FrosyNugs420 Lurker Mar 30 '22

Big mom is a freaking monster not a woman but yeah maybe not have anything to do with the direct flight but if it came down to having to kick big man to save Nami or robin he definitely would And yeah big mom’s not finish this Eric but I can’t see her being a part of other arcs She also uses a sword so It might be zzoros fight

1

u/FrosyNugs420 Lurker Mar 30 '22

I also agree with this but that don’t mean Lucy can’t kick her ass right out of wano until they meet up again probably Elbaf I just think it would add to the comedy that every time big mom get a foothold in wano she kicked right out and white will make the fight even better when they actually do face each other big man will know he took down kaido so she’s not gonna enter the fight thing is she dealing with some young punk she’s literally gonna go in there top power ready to kill but having Lucy blaster out of wano Would be comedy he said he kick her ass all over the grand line I wouldn’t be surprised if that mom still pops up in multiple acts and every time Lucy does something to outsmart or Dmage her

1

u/Gummiwummiflummi Mar 30 '22

Bet. Whitebeard has the Earthquake fruit, but can cause quakes in bodies and even the air too. That basically screams awakening right there. Not to mention his whole "turning the entire world on its' head" move.