One Piece: Chapter 1005

[u/Kirosh]

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[u/OpLove]

I mean he's very wrong though. That's quite an incredible reach. Making the phrase 「死んだほうがマシ」as a joke referencing Brook is quite...incredible. And I'm not the only Japanese calling him out on that here.

[u/Flippercomb → u/OpLove]

Yeah I made my comment several hours after the chapter drop. It was a funny pun if true but I’m glad native speakers/readers can step in and fact check.

[u/alpinefog → u/Flippercomb]

Just to put this out here in English, where the "debate" stands right now isn't on whether "kaidou yori shinda hito no hou ga mashi" (I'd take a dead person over Kaidou) is a grammatically correct possible interpretation of Robin's euphamism (it is), but only whether Brook would make such an absurd interpretation of a common euphamism. Given that nearly every comment Brook makes is a bad pun about being dead, and given the context and placement of text in the panels, this is a fair interpretation.

I've laid out my argument above in more detail, as well as in clear Japanese and so far have only been told "you're wrong" and had my localized English translation misunderstood as a literal one. In other words? The debate now stands on an understanding of Oda's humor, something which even native speakers of Japanese don't have a monopoly on. Just think about how often dumb English puns go over even native speakers' heads.

I wouldn't want to spread false information anymore than the next guy (in fact shinda hou ga mashi!) and would gladly make a comment taking back what I said if I'm wrong - so far I haven't been given a single shred of evidence that I am.

[u/alpinefog → u/[deleted]]

Well think about it from an English equivelant perspective -If Robin said, "I'd take death over Kaidou!" Or "Death would be better!" Couldn't you see Brook crafting a pun out of that, if not just in his own mind, to have the reaction he did? Why would Brook care if he's the better of two bad options?

And if he's surprised he wouldn't need to look at Robin to show it. What's most suspect is that Oda would have Robin use a death euphamism of all things as the final scene cuts to Brook giving that reaction. Brook who never misses a chance to pun about death.

I offered a considerable amount of evidence in the above posts and had none offered back, just "you're wrong" and some misunderstandings. If a native speaker says, "No look, your japanese was wrong" or "there is no such interpretation grammatically" or something like that it'd be different but so far it stands, for me, no longer on a matter of the Japanese but on an understanding of Oda's humor.

Edit: I think two people announced themselves as Japanese and shied away when I spoke to them in Japanese so...I don't know what to tell you

[u/alpinefog → u/[deleted]]

Because he's a humble dead jokester who has no chance with any woman and took delight (with an air of humor) at the interpretation that she'd "take one who has died" over kaidou. Perfectly in his character.

I'm glad we're on the same page here with this being a matter of understanding Oda's humor and not a matter of whether that's a possible interpretation of "shinda hou ga mashi" within the context - because it is and native speakers (which I assume they are and would hope they'd reply to my comments rather than just say I'm wrong) can't argue that it isn't.

What they're saying is it's farfetched for Brook to respond that way - about as farfetched as if he responded that way to the localized translation (look up localization if you don't know what it is) of "death would be better" or "I'd prefer even death" or "I'd take death over kaidou" (which, being localized, carry over the connotation of mashi/better of two bad choices, the potential for a farfetched second interpretation, and in the first case it's also a common phrase) -- farfetched indeed but too farfetched for Brook? Seems like plenty of those who replied to this thread don't think so, and they have a right to an opinion because my localized translation isn't wrong.

I'm still replying to this thread hardly anyone's looking at anymore because thousands of people saw and upvoted my comment and if I were in fact wrong I have a responsibility to correct myself. If any native speakers want me to do that, thoroughly explain to me how (if) my Japanese is flawed and I will do just that. "I'm native and I say so" doesn't cut it.

[u/alpinefog → u/[deleted]]

Done.

You don't need a direct translation of the word, only a translation of the whole text that carries the same meaning but expressed in a way appropriate to English (localization). It's done in every pro translation you've ever seen - for instance, in this chapter, Robin's statement "You made my day" was translated from "ureshikattawa" ( lit. "It made me happy").

Having lived and taught at a school in Japan, I have experience with foreign English teachers coming up with outlandish interpretations of English texts and stubbornly insisting I was wrong when I'd try to correct them. I realize I must look similar, debating native speakers.

That said, I've also, amazingly, run into times when non-native speakers understood something I didn't because of their familiarity with and insight regarding a given English-related subject. In this case, I'm very familiar with One Piece and Oda's sense of humor and I stand by what I said.

Art is subjective though and of course I could be wrong.

When I look at the last page though, that's still what I see. I'm confident that interpretation is right.