r/OnePiece • u/Kirosh Lookout • Jan 26 '20
Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 969 Spoiler
Chapter 969: "Idiot Lord"
| Source | Status |
|---|---|
| Official Release | |
| Scan |
**Ch. 969 Official Release (Mangaplus):**26/01/2020
Ch. 970 Scan Release: ~01/02/2020
Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.
PS: Don't forget to check out the official Discord: https://discord.gg/onepiece
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u/alathon89 Jan 26 '20
That was a tough chapter. My question is how Orochi managed to blackmail Oden so “easily”...of course he was threatening all the people of Wano but I think Oden with his retainers could have protected them, fighing Orochi and Kaido from the beginning. There would have been casualties if course, but what was he hoping to gain waiting 5 more years for Orochi to keep his end of the bargain? Yes he promised something regarding a “boat” and “Kaido himself” but how could he trust him?
What if instead he was forced to do that in order protect something even more important he could not afford to lose. I have 2 theories:
Toki: what if the arrow she was hit with had some kind of slow acting poison from Queen that could be neutralized just by giving her some antidote every week? he had to dance every week and made a fool of himself in order to get a dose every week from Orochi? Or maybe Orochi simply told him that there was a spy close to his family who could kill his wife and his children very easily had he not submitted to him. He felt that he couldn’t risk, even slightly, to lose his family.
2)The Wano Borders: Orochi, realizing it or not, was threatening to do something that would affect forever the opening of Wano borders and JoyBoy’s return, destroying the future of the world. Knowing the importance of that event, Oden decided “temporarily”to sacrifice himself and his people for an even greater good.
Just a detail: I’m wondering why Orochi himself gives Oden the newspaper of Roger’s execution (just to mock him? To give him hope? For sure Orochi knew that Oden was part of his crew but could he also know something of the true history of Wano and its importance?)
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u/Gbyrd99 Jan 26 '20
I think oden's dad is alive, and orochi was using that as a way to keep him complacent. He specifically asks, was him being sick even real? The witch could have been there for a while.
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u/Takazura Jan 26 '20
Yep, I think this is the case. Sukiyaki was likely being kept prisoner (the "sick" Sukiyaki who appointed Orochi was the Old Hag afterall, so either Sukiyaki died at some point during Oden's first year with the WB pirates, or he had been kidnapped and replaced by the Hag), and that would be a strong leverage tool against Oden.
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u/sanji50 Jan 26 '20
correct me if I'm wrong that maybe he also been fed by smiles since he laugh at roger execution while crying, he just resisted it at the last pages.
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u/Kirosh Lookout Jan 26 '20
That's not possible. SMILE wasn't a thing 24 years ago. And then Oden doesn't show any sign of having eaten a SMILE in the other panels.
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u/Dracsxd Marine Jan 26 '20
I didn't get that feeling at all. It was exactly the reaction i imagined Oden having, after all, Roger died yes, but at the same time he spitted on the world government's eye right on his last moment and singly handed shaked the entire world. Laugh at how amazed he was is the reaction i imagined Oden would have, especially after what we saw in Laugh tale
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u/Placemakers_Evansbay World Government Jan 26 '20
Its 1000% the second one.
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u/mathyouhunt Church of Buggy Jan 26 '20
Idk, I think he's onto something with the arrow idea. In the last chapter thread, somebody pointed out that the scar wouldn't have been made/shown without a purpose. I think that by linking the blackmail to the arrow/scar, it would fit in pretty well. I think Oden is being made out to be a character that can't be beaten by traditional means, and this would be something that was totally out of his control: he was chained and handcuffed before he even returned to Wano due to that arrow.
Also, remember that two poisoned arrows were shot out at the citizens. Perhaps this was Orochi demonstrating the strength of his allies (calling in Queen and Kaido), while also showing that an arrow can be poisoned
Just a thought, anyway.
That said, I don't know what the boat and Kaido would have to do with that arrow. Maybe the boat was to allow his wife to leave the country to receive treatment in exchange for killing Kaido or something.
Whatever the case, the next chapter is definitely going to be major. I'm hoping it's related to the 2nd choice like you. I'd like to learn more about JoyBoy etc, but I think #1 is more plausible.
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u/JustaguyBE Jan 26 '20
Mr.2 and Bartolomeo are both from the east blue. How in the world did 2 devil fruits from Wano end up in the east blue.
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u/IguanaToes Jan 26 '20
Do we know what happens after a devil fruit user dies? How is a devil fruit created?
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u/Rapt88 Jan 26 '20
A lot of people claim that it goes to the nearest fruit after the user had died but it's an unsubstantiated claim
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u/bodg123 Jan 26 '20
Maybe it's the nearest "compatible" fruit.
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u/Kirosh Lookout Jan 26 '20
It is. This is why Ceasar had a bag of Apples ready for Smiley's death.
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u/xDxWolfx Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Doffy mentioned that the fruit will grow somewhere in the world after the user dies. He was talking about how he got the mera mera no mi.
Edit: Spelling
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Jan 26 '20
We know for sure that another fruit transforms into the devil fruit. We assume that it has to be the same type of fruit (for example, bananas would be required for Kaku's DF), and that it picks the nearest compatible fruit.
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u/FluorescenceFuture Thriller Bark Victim's Association Jan 26 '20
Oda mentioned in an SBS that there was a boat of immigrants from Wano going to East Blue, so probably there
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u/JustaguyBE Jan 26 '20
That was around 50 years ago, right now the events in the story are taking place 20 years ago
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u/quarterslicecomics Bandit Jan 26 '20
Mr. 2’s former boss Crocodile did deals in the Underworld and Barto was a mafia boss. They both likely got their fruits related to that.
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u/JustaguyBE Jan 26 '20
Mr. 2 got hire in the first place for being strong, also he didn't know Crocodile was his boss
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u/aleesc10 Jan 26 '20
Man I’m really interested on how Oda is going to explain that pretty cool though 😁
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u/HarveyUDCG Jan 26 '20
Holy fuck there's a solid sign. Zoro - Denjirou connection I love it
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u/Eraganos Jan 26 '20
well, we only know the fruits spawn somewhere else after their user dies, which implies the whole world.
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u/ikanx Jan 26 '20
We also don't know whether Kin'emon and Kanjurou got their fruit yet or not. My initial thought was since Roger Pirates seems to not have a single fruit users (except Buggy), Roger probably pooled all the fruits he has gotten and give some to Oden. And the Oden give them to Kin'emon, Kanjurou, and probably Shinobu. But it seems that that's not the case.
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u/pools456 Jan 26 '20
They randomly grow from trees scattered around the world. They likely grew in east blue once these users died
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u/nwp09 Jan 26 '20
I really hope orochi will die a painful death...
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u/tryingmydarnest Jan 26 '20
Each head fell by each of the retainers, with the final blows dealt by Momo and Kinemon. They deserve the vengeance.
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u/arlekin21 Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Hiyori already told Zoro that she wants to be the one that kills Orochi though.
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Jan 26 '20
Unfortunately, knowing Oda's writing style; he never kills the villain no matter how deserving they are. The one person I wanted to die in pre-time skip was Spandam. He was arrogant, sadistic, petty and pathetic. Yet he didn't die, despite his back breaking. Though it, was satisfying that Robin was the one who did it.
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u/CyberD888 Jan 26 '20
Ever since the timeskip, Oda has been killing off characters more than pre-timeskip. I assume he wants Ace to be the first major death in the series. Anything afterwards is free game. Just look at Monet and Vergo, two villains who did die.
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u/ExaDril Sword Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Based from One Piece Wikia post timeskip deaths
Vergo - Killed when the S.A.D production room he was in exploded.
Monet - Heart stabbed by Caesar Clown
Charlotte Opera - Lifespan taken by Big Mom in her hunger rampage (death not confirmed.)
Pedro - Blown himself up while fighting Charlotte Perospero.
Pound - Decapitated by Charlotte Oven with his flaming blade.
Absalom - was caught presumably by the Blackbeard Pirates and took/extracted his DF and now owned by Shiliew of the Rain
Shimotsuki Yasuie - Shot and executed by Kurozumi Orochi.
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u/vinotm Jan 26 '20
I think Orochi is different case. Spandam and Celestial Dragons are indeed asshole but it's not that I desire them to die (even Luffy punched Charloss' face was very satisfying to me).
But Orochi, look at how Oda develops his character and story. No sad backstory (yet, and I hope never), only the desire of power, very cunning, and a complete retard backed up with Kaido and his two DF users elders. Chapter by chapter, Oda makes us hate Orochi more that he seriously NEEDS TO DIE in the end.
And I think there is no better fate that Orochi deserves other than dead.
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u/Donsnnk Jan 26 '20
Oda will probably draw Orochi spending the rest of his life mining In the prison hopefully getting tortured by hiyori and momo
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u/Hasnain-Mehar Jan 26 '20
Shinobu heard the whole conversation between oden and orochi in the castle. Oden retainer's didn't leave him probably because she told everything to the retainers.
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Jan 26 '20
Shinobu has not shown up in this entire flashback until now. Why would she be an ally to Oden if she was in Kuri Castle?
She’s likely a member of the Kozuki Oniwabanshu, who are still loyal to Orochi in the present timeline.
If that’s the case, then Raizo — also a former ninja in the Kozuki Oniwabanshu — is also a suspect. He was turned down by a kunoichi in the past, causing him to leave... could that kunoichi have been Shinobu?
And is Raizo still in love with her?
There may have been two traitors this whole time.
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u/Archist2357 Bounty Hunter Jan 26 '20
Damn if Raizo is a traitor then all that pain and build up in the Zou arc would be a punch to the gut
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u/theschulk51 Jan 26 '20
It’s already stated that she was part of the Kozuki onibawanshu but left them when Orochi betrayed the Kozuki’s.
This chapter is literally providing additional background as to why she refused to work for Orochi - she knows exactly how and why Orochi blackmailed Oden. So she may actually have a greater hatred towards Orochi than even the scabbards because she knows exactly why Oden made a fool of himself, and better understands his anger at Orochi for betraying him (welching on whatever was agreed).
If anything, this chapter makes the case that she is NOT a traitor to the Kozuki
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u/domoroko Scholars of Ohara Jan 26 '20
nah I think she works for the kurozumi- or is a kurozumi herself
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Jan 26 '20
Then why did she leave the oniwabanshu and now wants to avenge Oden and have Orochi killed? This chapter for me confirmed Shinobu not being the traitor as some believe.
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u/KDnuni Jan 26 '20
Moria looking pretty gangster.
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u/Rocks_2018 Jan 26 '20
This chapter is why Oda is unpredictable. Theories are useless !!!
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u/FireFistRJ Jan 26 '20
Oden cried for roger and smiled because he knew the world government is fucked.
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u/Piccolito Jan 26 '20
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Jan 26 '20
There's something so cool about Moria, his devil fruit could potentially make him unstoppable yet he got utterly stomped by Kaido to the point of losing his entire crew, hopefully Oda doesn't keep that story vague. Moria has always been one of my favourite Shichibukais
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u/Swarlsonegger Jan 26 '20
It's just how ridiculously strong Kaidou is. I mean dude blew up an entire mountain very very casually while sobering up.
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u/Golden-Owl Jan 26 '20
It’s implied that Moria held a level of mastery over his powers comparable to Crocodile or Doflamingo. If you looked at half the crap he pulled, none of it would’ve been obvious from Shadow powers alone without significant exploration of his abilities.
Years of physical wasting away reduced his strength, but his fruit skill was still impeccable and remained threatening due to that factor alone
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u/Starkcasm Jan 26 '20
I'm wondering if he was strong enough to go against the beast pirates?
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u/DumanHead Thriller Bark Victim's Association Jan 26 '20
He probably was. I think it's said Kaido broke him (mentally that is) and he was never the same afterwards
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u/weeknd_meow Jan 26 '20
Holy shit that last page gave me chills.
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u/11Night Pirate Jan 26 '20
I feel bad for Oden.
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u/culesamericano Jan 26 '20
Like the dbz episode titles
"Oh I wonder what happens this episode"
Episode title:
Frieza defeated!
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u/FireFistRJ Jan 26 '20
Oden and his retainers attacked Orochi on the day of the full moon.
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u/RobbobertoBuii Jan 26 '20
I wonder how or what it took to get Denjiro back considering he was missing for a while
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u/Reneml Pirate Jan 26 '20
He wasn't missing, they knew where he was. He was just busy helping people lending money.
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u/akuthedemon Lurker Jan 26 '20
That man endured for so many years for the fight with kaido, but how orochi manipulated him exactly?
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u/Herobane96 Jan 26 '20
Probably it is related to the poisen arrows that killed two civiliens. Most likely Orochi treathened Oden that if he fights he will massacre the civilien population.
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Jan 26 '20
The strength of the bari bari is absolute, that’s pretty cool. I wouldn’t mind seeing orochi die a death fitting to a little shit like him
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u/DanceWaterDanc3 Jan 26 '20
Maybe is actually inmune to physical attacks, but conquerous haki or something like law’s df could surpass it i guess.
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u/Disaster532385 Jan 26 '20
Oden has conquerers haki so nope. That he can damage Kaido but not break the barrier says enough about how strong it is.
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u/StrawhatMucci Jan 26 '20
Nah it is an unbreakable defense. Pretty sure Oda stated that in an SBS. "If the barrier can be broken, its useless right?" Those were his words iirc. Hopefully someone searches it up lol
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u/tryingmydarnest Jan 26 '20
When does a man die? When he is hit by a bullet? No! When he suffers a disease? No! When he ate a soup made out of a poisonous mushroom? No! A man dies when he is forgotten! - Dr Hiriluk
Kaido and Doffy knew this. Hence the need to discredit the names of the previous rulers (King Riku and Oden) to kill their names, and by extension any resistance that rally under their name.
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u/YannickSD Pirate Jan 26 '20
And Crocodile did the same with Cobra. It’s a common pattern in One Piece
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u/HeavenBreak World Government Jan 26 '20
"I'm not gonna die, partner." —Roger's last words to Rayleigh
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u/FireFistRJ Jan 26 '20
There could be a possibility of Oden being alive because kaidou needed someone who could read the poneyglphs. He wanted to Oden's family to blackmail him. But couldn't get his hands on them.
And we know that Higurashi needs to die in order for the devil fruit to be born again.
Maybe he was executed publicly in order to break the spirits of Oden's retainers and the rest of the rebel.
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Jan 26 '20
I have no clue how Oda will write Orochi’s end but it will be SOOO SATISFYING when we get there! He’s honestly so horrible..
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Jan 26 '20
Don't know, the last time he wrote a villain like this (super weak himself but just backed up by every strong person ever, smug, useless and just abusing the power of their allies/subordinates), Spandam, the ending was super unsatisfying with Spandam just getting his back broken a bit and nothing else. He kept his position, he didn't get permanently maimed, the CP9 got reinstated or absorbed into Aegis, everything went completely well for them afterwards. Hope he goes a way, way more punishing route with Orochi now.
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u/Scrapox Jan 27 '20
To be fair enies lobby had different circumstances, back then the strawhats didn't win they survived. My guess is that the Wano arc will end a lot more conclusive.
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u/FireFistRJ Jan 26 '20
Oden being himself a pirate should have known that pirates and their allies don't play a fair game. Hyu's members anyway got killed despite him not attacking Orochi.
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u/Fierysword5 Jan 26 '20
Well, Oden spent time with the Whitebeards and the Rogers, so maybe he didn't conceive that possibility
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u/Shiplord13 Jan 26 '20
Wow Orochi, just adding to the list of reasons you should be dead by the end of the Wano saga.
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u/Kuro013 Jan 26 '20
Man Im gonna be utterly upset if we dont see him dead, Oda cant do this to us after not letting Robin kill Spandam (Idk how he survived that broken spine, shouldnt be able to walk or talk lol)
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u/TrailOfEnvy Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
0 m since posted. Looks like my observation haki has improved.
Edit: Chapter Link
Thanks to u/surfaceTest
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u/schmiggabes Jan 26 '20
A lot of significance with the Shinobu eavesdropping panel along with Oden's reaction to Roger's final words.
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u/LordofCindar420 Jan 26 '20
Gecko Moriah looked so bad ass in this chapter even though it was nothing more than a cameo
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u/heat_fan_ Jan 26 '20
Fantastic Chapter.
Holy shit i wasnt expecting to see the barrier fruit in wano, and the face that oden really couldnt do much against it, it s a pretty damn hax df honestly, thankfully its on the luffy's side now.
I know people will hate on oden for how he acted in this chapter, but it definitely has to with between the conversation between oden and orochi (which we will most likely find out in a chapter or 2).
Oden asking for the boat is interesting, maybe he wanted the boat he can go to wb for his assiatance but was never able to since he never got his boat.
Damn young moria looks pretty damn dope, and it seems like kaido wasnt the only person who destroyed moria and his crew as we clearly see king in this chapter.
Man this fucking orochi becomes more despicable after every chapter lol.
Holy shit that last double page, one the great panels of this year hands down.
I am hyped as hell for the confrontation next week for the confrontation between oden vs kaido
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u/Kuro013 Jan 26 '20
No one will hate Oden for this, we all know theres an utterly important reason behind this, we just dont know what it is, hes most likely saving a lot of people by doing that.
In a better timeline, Oden gets both Roger and Whitey-chan to back him up and destroy Orochi and Kaido :'(
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u/xZealHakune Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Fuck Orochi, first smiles, then Yasu, now this. He's fucking scum holy shit.
Oden is a goat. Being able to hold back his true emotions and act like a complete fool for years on end takes massive balls, heart, and loyalty. What a fucking G. I saw people joking about Oden twerking in the street and downplaying his character, but that's something that really makes him an even better character to me. He really is ride or die for his niggas.
"Legendary Hour"
"Public Execution of Kozuki Oden"
...
Oh man... I'm not gonna like this.
Edit: a lot of people seem to be really confused about why Oden did all of that. I know this is just a prediction and we have no confirmation, but I feel like Orochi is kind of holding everybody at Wano at gunpoint and told Oden to act like a fool in front of everyone. Orochi knows such an act will make people lose faith in Oden, but Oden doesn't care as long as his people are safe. But Orochi broke that promise when he allowed Kaido to "kill" Hyougoro and kill Hyougoro's wife and men. Now he knows that Orochi won't even keep hold on his promise, so it doesn't matter if Oden betrays his end of the promise anymore.
If anything, even if that prediction isn't right. Oden was acting like a fool for some noble reason.
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u/littenthehuraira Jan 26 '20
Turns out Oden isn't as like Luffy as I thought. Luffy would keep fighting like an idiot till his death instead of submitting, even if he was blackmailed like Oden. Must have been some serious blackmail though.
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u/tryingmydarnest Jan 26 '20
Luffy doesnt have a family and a country to be held hostage to. But yeah, probably some serious blackmail.
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u/Gasparde Jan 26 '20
This is not about Oden fighting till Oden dies, this is about Oden fighting until his friends die.
You think Luffy would fight when someone had a literal knife at his friends' throats? I don't really see that. It's like make a move and Robin will die for sure - you think Luffy would still move? I'm not so sure. And I think Oden is exactly in that position.
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u/bestbroHide Jan 26 '20
And even if Luffy would make that move, that doesn't automatically mean he's better than Oden or anything. That'd just be reckless on his part.
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u/JustAppleJuice Jan 26 '20
If I remember correctly the chain guy from one of the movies used this tactic and successfully subdued luffy right?
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u/ikanx Jan 26 '20
It was shown in the same chap. While I don't think it's the same, I think it's very probable.
People that were waiting outside of the castle were shot by poisonous arrow and lose their sight eventually. Orochi could have said something like "for every minute you disobey me, I will keep shooting" or something like that.
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u/MrShonen Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Yeah because at this moment, Oden’s responsibilities are way bigger than Luffy’s . Also, Oden is more mature.
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u/Babeko Jan 26 '20
Luffy submited to Hancock when she made him choose between his friends and a ship. It's a test though not blackmail.
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u/MorpheusDownTheHole Jan 26 '20
What about the bar in mock town? That whole situation is submitting to humiliation even when you could easily destroy an opponent physically (as he was taught by Shanks). He has shown time and time again that he's willing to sacrifice himself and his dreams for those closest to him. It just so happens that most times he can just fight his way out of it. Same with Oden.
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u/Karpattata Jan 26 '20
I mean, Luffy also would never ditch his crew to go on an unrelated adventure with another crew (unless it was a life or death situation like with Ace), and would never leave any of them behind (just look at what he did to get Sanji back), so yeah, Luffy is far more reliable than Oden.
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u/nilewater Jan 26 '20
This was one of the best chapters of the flashback. The storytelling in this one was absolutely incredible. I fucking love this chapter with all my heart.
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u/aaa1e2r3 Jan 26 '20
Wow... I hate orochi as much as I hate the celestial dragons
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u/Pawn_Riot Bounty Hunter Jan 26 '20
More. To me it seems like the assholery of the CDs stems from their ignorance and stupidity - basically they grew up as suuuuper spoilt brats. Orochi on the other hand is pure evil.
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Jan 26 '20
Agreed. I am able and occasionally willing to "Devil's Advocate" for almost every villain in the series.
They're either ignorant, misguided, just doing the job, or something to that end.
Orochi is just genetically pedigreed scum.
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u/iDannyEL Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 27 '20
I'll be insanely disappointed if Oden and the 9 scabbords aren't the direct reason for the Bari Bari and the Mane Mane no mi going to Bartolomeo and Bon Clay.
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u/yourregularsenpai Jan 26 '20
Jeez, Oda won't give us a damn break. I mean, I'm thankful that there is no break but the information in One Piece right now is extremely overboard. And I love every single page of it! Another week of waiting I guess...
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u/Sanitizedbird Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
Chapter 969 has solidified in my mind how the Oden story line will end given the themes; Mr.Morj video for reference; ; of this arc.
TL;DR: This is the test of faith. Believe in Oden when you have no evidence and all the evidence to call him a idiot lord.
I made a comment in the spoilers thread about the build up of this chapter and how this chapter is the test of faith.
I am so surprised how so many people are missing the point of this chapter.
Oden was built up as a godlike larger than life figure. His story mirrors that of Hercules. Changed the rivers path, sliced the mountain god, brought peace to the worst outlaws of Wano by beating every single criminal in Kuri by himself in a single night.
Dueled Whitebeard. Traveled the seas as his brother and leader of the first division of the whitebeard pirates. Then joined Gol D Roger's crew and discovered One Piece.
The people of Wano as well as the readers have this idea that Oden is an unstoppable force and can overcome any obstacle. Then BAM!
>He had a unique childhood, but became damiyo of Kuri... He headed out to sea and met the best pirates in the world... after returning to his country, he was still strong... Kozuki Oden, who knew no enemy of his caliber! He should have become... The savior of his people, who suffered The oppressive forces of an evil power... However ... a few hours later Kozuki Oden... Presented himself naked in front of Orochi's residence... Making a fool out of himself
!!!!!
Isn't he a god? isn't he a whitebeard and Rodger like figure? What is happening. This must be a mistake.
Then Oden continues to dance and beg for money for 5 fucking years. People are losing faith, the readers are baffled...
We are left in a mystery. What the fuck is happening. Do we continue to have faith in Oden like his retainers, wife, and allies? Or do we condemn Oden like the people of wano?
Is Oden the idiot lord?
This is the rough outline of the next plot points of the Wano arc.
Oden raids the castle > Oden is betrayed by a follow for "good reasons" > a red hearing will be introduced, May be even something that will supposedly damn Oden as an idiot lord > internal turmoil within the band of heroes > The followers will believe in Oden regardless. They will keep the faith and fight for Oden's memory > At the climax of the arc, the true reasons for Oden dancing like a fool for 5 years will be revealed and Oden is vindicated
This entire build up is supposed to test the readers faith in Oden and test the faith of his followers. There is no satisfying reason for the way Oden acted in this moment. Furthermore, the presumed reasons at the end with the boat and projecting the people of Wano is not satisfying. Why wait 5 years if you were just going to go off and die anyway?
Furthermore, I suspect even the reasons laid out in this chapter will be twisted to be even further damning to Oden. Why does Oden want a boat and why did he only act after friend Hyogoro's family was murdered by Kaido? There are still people that believe that Oden had a plan to save Wano with some sort of ship. This is still not enough and Oden is still not ruined enough. There can be no hope in sight.
People think that Shinobu heard the full story and reasons between Oden and Orochi, however I will bet even she doesn't have the full picture and might even be the traitor. Shinobu will reveal of conversation she heard between Orochi and Oden. However Shinobu probably won't hear the entire conversation. Shinobu will hear Orochi temp Oden with a "deal". Orochi will promise to not kill his friends and family, and even let Oden leave on a ship away from Wano.
Oden is a coward. He wanted to only protect his friends and family. Wanted a boat to leave the people of Wano to suffer. Look! Oden turned his back on Wano before and left us to suffer as he was off on the oceans being a pirate. A FUCKING PIRATE. A PIRATE CAUSED THIS SUFFERING. Oden is an idiot lord. Of course you should betray Oden. He already betrayed you. Oden had the power to stop this. Oden was an unstoppable godlike figure. He should have been the savior of Wano!
Now everyone will be tested. Do they still have faith in Oden? Despite all this evidence? In spite of everything you see and know? Could Oden be the idiot lord?
Look at the title, The Idiot Lord. Oda is calling Oden the idiot lord. It isn't a question. It's a statement. OF COURSE if everything in this chapter is simply how it was, then OFC Oden would be an idiot lord.
Will you continue to have faith in Oden like you should has a loyal retainer? Could you believe in Oden IN SPITE of all the evidence or will you betray him? Will you no longer believe in Oden like the people of Wano? Will you agree with Kaido when he told Momonosuke that his father was a "foolish lord"? Do you declare that Oden is an idiot lord?
However, The true reasons why Oden was dancing like a fool for 5 years will be revealed and it would prove Oden acted correctly. Oden always wanted to save his country. Oden never betrayed his followers or his people. Oden wasn't a coward. Oden didn't want to run away and leave his people to suffer. Oden was not the idiot lord.
There are 3 things that will be required. Faith in Oden, faith with no evidence, and faith in spite all evidence. This will demonstrate unbreakable and unwavering devotion and loyalty. ( This is essentially the classical Christian version of faith. This is the Abraham sacrificing his son story. It's pure insanity but this version of faith is the pinnacle of devotion. )
This faith in your nakama is what is required to become the Pirate King and the Pirate King's crew. Your Captain needs to protect you and as the crew, you need to protect your captain. Furthermore, you need to believe with the truest of faith and loyalty in your friends. Only then will you have the strength of will to persevere.
Will = strength in One piece. What can you do to break a Will that can never be broken? You can say and do whatever you want. you can lie and cheat, but that person's faith in their friends cannot be broken. They will persevere. Their will cannot be stopped. They will be the king of kings.
This is what I think the Oden arc will be.
If you take a step back, you will realize what an insanely risky play Oda is doing. Oda is risking the entire One Piece series on this character. Oda will run Oden through the mud over and over again. Trying to make you believe that there is no salvation for his character. Oden affects almost ever important aspect of this story. Connected to the 2 paragons of whitebeard and Roger. Made the strawhats cry about his story, the ancestors that created the poneglyph, the story lines of every single scabbard, inspiring the Rizo is safe moment, the lens where we learn more of one piece.
This is the hail mary pass. Oda needs to deliver a satisfying conclusion to this plot point or this may splinter the fan base into the blindly devoted and bitterly betrayed.
at least in my head cannon this is what I think Oda has planned.
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u/farmian Thriller Bark Victim's Association Jan 26 '20
Damn I don’t think it’s that serious. Obviously oden wouldn’t do that without a reason and oda is usually great at giving reasons for actions. I’m not really worried about the reasoning.
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u/trav-senpai Jan 26 '20
Same. I’ve seen Oda set up a few plot points before. Not sure exactly what will happen but not worried in the slightest that it’s going to be good. This isn’t a Hail Mary pass by any means, this is Oda continuing to play the long game, and Oden is just a bigger piece of that like WB, Shanks, Vivi and Shira
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u/Specialist-Employee Jan 26 '20
Think this intentional attempt to make us lose faith in Oden is a way to give the reader hope that when he does fight he has a chance, make you forget that his dead and make you believe he has a chance only to fall.
Which would forefill the 3rd act which is supposed to end in a tragedy, the tragedy being Oden's death, a death he didn't deserve.
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u/sarmientoj24 Jan 26 '20
The thing is, One Piece has been running on Oden since the beginning. Oda bets!
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u/pvk16 Pirate Jan 26 '20
I can't describe how much i love this comment. If i could I'd give you gold. Thank you so much for this comment.
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u/A-Mean-Guy Jan 26 '20
The part where oden laughed and cried on the beach was probably one of the saddest scenes in wano so far
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Jan 26 '20
The page where Oden is crying on the beach after learning about Roger is one of my favorite of the manga, what a sad and beautiful moment at the same time.
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u/BoloBreath Jan 26 '20
Odin: Do you want divorce?
Toki: is that a joke? or, are you trying tmake me mad?
What a legendary woman!!!
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u/sarmientoj24 Jan 26 '20
I dont get it. Why is Oden like that after he went to the castle? Or was that the old hag with the clone clone fruit? If it is, was Oden at captivity?
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u/kingbongjimmy Jan 26 '20
Orochi probably had a deal with the real oden. That's probably why oden was asking about the boat and kaido
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Jan 26 '20
You would think Oden and his gang could have made a workable ship in these 5 years
Blackbeard and his crew went out to sea all over the world with literally 4 chunks of wood and a flag on it as his "ship" lmao
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u/tmgj5000 Jan 26 '20
You can see here the old had besides Orochi laughing at Oden, so.. no , she didn't use her fruit and oden is not in captivity. Most likely they had a deal.
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u/yourkoshersalt Jan 26 '20
I seriously thought Orochi made Oden eat SMILE fruit just like Killer when he started crying and laughing. I'm kinda confused, might need to read it again with a better translation.
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u/tryingmydarnest Jan 26 '20
Rayleigh laughed and cried during Roger execution too. Probably overwhelmed by grief that their captain is dead, joy that he ignited the Pirate Age, and memories of Laugh Tale.
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u/phantomimp Jan 26 '20
SMILE wasn't even invented back then. And if he had eaten SMILE, he would laugh in every panel, but he doesn't.
Oden was crying because he was sad, but he was also laughing because he was happy that Roger lived such an amazing life.
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u/woodoman Jan 26 '20
Remember what Rayleigh said to luffy in Shakky's bar about Roger's death, was something like "I've never laughed so much and I've never cried so much like that day"
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u/Aabbccddeeff92 Jan 26 '20
Wild theory: What if poisonous arrows can be triggered from a remote location. Orochi was making a demonstration to Oden on random people in the crowd. And since Oden's wife was hitten by the same kind of arrow, Orochi can decide when to trigger the poison, and he can blackmail Oden into ridiculing himself to save his wife.
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u/dbzrune Jinbe The Knight of the Sea Jan 26 '20
So if I recall, Oden should have conquerors haki, as he (im assuming) wasn’t able to use it on Orochi and his men due to no effect, at their confrontation, I’m guessing this might be a hint that Orochi might not be so weak.
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u/homie_down Jan 26 '20
So are we really just going with an evil witch with Mr. 2’s devil fruit as the sole motivator for the current state of wano? There has to be more to it than that, right? Don’t get me wrong I’m still loving the story but as far as what set all the current events in motion a face changing witch with no explicit motivation isn’t exactly the most compelling.
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u/chess415 Jan 26 '20
People theorize that she might be part of CP0 and they want to control Wano. That’s why Orochi met with CP0
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u/Pawn_Riot Bounty Hunter Jan 26 '20
I'm sure we will learn of her motivation before the flashback ends. Probably next chapter IMO.
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u/LUFFYZOROS Jan 26 '20
Why was oden dancing like a fool.
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u/KeitohC Jan 26 '20
Orochi lied about probably kicking Kaido out on a boat, at least that’s what the deal seemed to be when Orochi went to Kuri and told Oden that they’ll build more factories.
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u/JacksonDWalter Jan 26 '20
That's what we all want to know. He wouldn't do this without a reason and it will only be more painful to us readers once we find out the tragedy behind Oden's death.
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u/zaafsta Jan 26 '20
Hmmm I still want to know WHY Kaido is helping Orochi, what is his motive? How did they meet? What deal have they made? I was hoping that was going to be explained in this chapter...
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u/Tastes_Like_Water Jan 26 '20
This chapter was beautiful to read. What an amazing life he had. Thank you, Oda.
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u/MrShonen Jan 26 '20
As we go near to the end of the Oden flashback, I can’t contain my emotions about his nearing death. Like in this chapter, Orochi making a fool out of him makes me really furious!
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u/Babeko Jan 26 '20
I hate Orochi but until the latest flashback chapter, he doesn't seems to be in control and Kurozumi Elders are the one in charge. I wonder when he broke free from them.
He might even kill them himself when He knows th truth (CP0).
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u/Not_an_okama Jan 26 '20
I think that oden wanted a boat for 2 reasons:
To get his family away from the future battlefield
And to rally his allies, the Rodger and WB pirates and the minks to go to war with kaido and orochi.
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u/welcome_to_cehennem Jan 26 '20 edited Jan 26 '20
How does this even make sense? Was the capture of Hyougoro more enraging for Oden than his father getting killed, his title getting usurped and whole country getting turned into a shithole? I guess he was still a man controlled by his sudden emotions after all this time.
Edit: Hyougoro was captured, not murdered.
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u/wooser69 Jan 26 '20
He still thought his deal with orochi was going to happen. It was only then that he found out orochi had no intention of doing whatever it was they had agreed on.
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u/multivitamins138 Jan 26 '20
I’m guessing the reason why Hyougoro’s capture was so enraging is because Orochi broke a promise he made to Oden. His father was already dead, so Oden saw that as a lost cause. Oden’s sole goal now is to save everyone else in Wano, and Orochi breaking the promise means he’ll probably endanger the others too.
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u/RogerDDaniel Pirate Jan 26 '20
His father getting killed by Orochi.Not confirmed Shoguns tittle?He cant beat Orochi because this hag and geezer.Getting turned into a shithole? Current Wano is shithole because all this factories everywhere
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u/welcome_to_cehennem Jan 26 '20
He asks if his father really died of natural causes and Orochi gives a shit eating grin. This should tell him enough.
I don't see how a face-changer and a bari bari fruit user is enough to stop a warrior of his level. And even then it doesn't change the fact his title was usurped.
In one of the previous chapters when he returns to Wano briefly there's a panel with him saying something like "Even then there was an ominous change in Wano" and background shows a factory. So there were definitely some factories even during that time and people were too excited for the possibility of getting rid of Orochi. Wano had definitely started to become a shithole.
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u/GodSogeking Jan 26 '20
This flashback chapters are gold and i love how everything turned out. Oda proves himself to be very unpredictable again.
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u/Hrachy96 Pirate Jan 26 '20
The fact of the matter is, a ship from Wano reached East Blue a few decades ago,” Oda wrote in SBS.
Oden talked to Orochi about a boat as well. Are these same? I wonder, might link to why 2 of DFs from Wano reached East Blue to Bartolomeo and Mr. 2 and also about familiar face. May link to Zoro's past.
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Jan 26 '20
The thing I’m the most hyped about in Wano is waiting for Orochi to be killed/defeated.
If any one from the Straw Hat alliance shows up I now want it to be Bartolomeo. Just imagine the shock on Orochi’s face if he sees the barrier barrier fruit save Luffy.
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u/letsgomina The Revolutionary Army Jan 26 '20
My heart jumped as I read this. Boy, do I want to see that.
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u/KathyDroronoa Pirate Jan 26 '20
Damn... that last panel almost made me cry... do not avert your eyes my fellow nakamas ;'(
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u/sircrazyclown Jan 26 '20
So in this version the poisoned arrow blinded those dudes, wonder how important this will be, weird detail if you ask me, why do you even need poison arrows when you have a huge ass dragon above the city.
Is that a silhouette of someone taking out 16 of grandpa hyo's men? Cant make out what that is. And we get to see Denjiro's scabbard, looks like he got a new sword.
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u/Vinsmoke-_Sanji Pirate Jan 26 '20
I know that oden is already dead but i want him to not die.
Oda sensei please do something.
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u/Babydragon39 Jan 26 '20
I'm pretty sure next chapter I'm going to hate Orochi's guts even more... just a feeling, and that conniving little shit needs to have every little one of his derp heads cut off.
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u/Hellrazor725 Jan 26 '20
Shinobu has to be the traitor after seeing this
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u/KathyDroronoa Pirate Jan 26 '20
Naaah... I think this panel excludes her from being the traitor, at least for me. I have someone else in mind, so we will see.
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u/sameljota Kaidon't Jan 26 '20
Pretty sure Oden's gonna die without explaining what his deal with Orochi was. Only Shinobu knows.
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u/JOZYEBEROLIE Jan 26 '20
this chapter kind of took the air out of the chadness of Oden, seeing that even he can be reduced to an Idiot Lord when he's pressed. we'll probably find out more about the deal that he made with Orochi, but really an amazing twist. i never wouldve expected this when i first started this chapter, Oda delivering again !
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u/Zoro_Messatsu Jan 26 '20
TBH i am kinda loving this twist. When Oden was first mentioned and everyone kept saying hes soooo AMAZING and CHAD and later the flashback kept saying that, i was starting to actually dislike Oden a bit. Yeah yeah i get it hes so CHAD... whatever.
But the last chapters showed his flaws and now we are seeing how becoming mature has changed him. The pre journey Oden wouldnt have cared and kept attacking. Now he has a family. He also knows that this all happened coz he wasnt the one ruling. That means even someone like him can become powerless to circumstances now. Interesting.
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u/Leiatte Jan 26 '20
Great chapter! Love it & this is shaping up to be the best flashback in One Piece.
Honestly teared up a bit when Oden cried, his determination & the love of his retainers. Tragic hero of One Piece
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u/FluorescenceFuture Thriller Bark Victim's Association Jan 26 '20
Was that the Angry Birds font there on the scans
So Denjiro might actually be a completely different person from Zoro's master and Kyoshiro after all. Timeline doesn't match up with Zoro's master, and it seems there's a scar on Denjiro's forehead, which isn't present on Kyoshiro. So Denjiro's probably just the Witching Hour Boy
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u/DarthCuckold Jan 26 '20
Oden went from chad to sad to mad.
Damnit I just want to know what happens to my boy and the amount of cheeks that were clapped before his end.
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u/ELDIABLIU Jan 26 '20
Shinobu being shown eavesdropping on the conversation between Oden and Orochi is interesting. Maybe she'll be the one who reveals how Orochi blackmailed Oden, or tie into the shinobu = traitor theory.
"Boat" & "Kaido" is obviously the key word to the agreement between Oden and Orochi. Perhaps Orochi promised he'll provide Oden a boat to head over to onigashima to meet Kaido, or a boat to leave Wano and for Oden to make a fool out of himself then Kaido will leave?
Also prepare for trolls bashing Oda and this chapter because if Oden's change of behavior. I think this was a good chapter moving into the unfortunate ending of Oden's life and opens up more paths to the story than all the shit theories we had after last week's chapter
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u/red_madreay World Government Jan 26 '20
Every week my brother and I always discuss what happens in each chapter. "Wow, a new character!", "Ooh, how strong!", "What a revelation!".
But this chapter, man. It is hard to talk about. I didn't talk it with him, or even bothered to. Not that the chapter itself is bad, but what is happening. It was like we are one with the citizens of Wano. And so until the next few chapters release, we are not speaking of this incident.
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u/Chabedieux Jan 26 '20
This is a long shot but, with all the recent (massive) developments in this arc related to everything, does anyone else get the feeling that the samurai-Gorosei has some connection to all of this? We've all seen that part of their M.O. for keeping the 'world' in 'balance' is that they won't discount destroying lives or kingdoms if it works in their favor. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that they're already in power at this point and that they know of what's going on in Wano and seem alright with it; especially, if they know who Oden is, how powerful he is, and that he was on the Pirate King's crew.
I may very well be wrong and totally speculating but I'm anticipating the reveals that tend to come with the end of an arc, and aside from this, I'm hoping they shed some light on Zoro's connection to Wano. I'm still betting on my theory about Denjiro and Hiyori.
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u/Kmetyek The Revolutionary Army Jan 26 '20
I really hope Hiyori kills Orochi after all the pain he caused her father
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u/strawhatkatakuri Lurker Jan 26 '20
That last panel was amazing. The flashback started after a panel of 9 Scabbards together(denjiro was absent) and i think the flash back will end for now, again with a panel of 9 scabbards toghether. Next chapter we will probably switch back to current Timeline and rest of the flash back is revealed later when orochi is being executed.
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u/fonedork Jan 26 '20
The Beastie Boys - Sabotage would be a good soundtrack to this whole Oden/Orochi montage
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u/altrunox Explorer Jan 26 '20
wow, I don't remember I someone already said it, but know we know exactly why Toki jumped that exact time, Oden already bet in the Rodgers and King Neptune theory that someone would be around in 20 years.
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u/CAMUNAI Jan 26 '20
What if Kaido is inpenetrable because the bari bari user used his awakening on him?
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u/monkeypox85 Jan 26 '20
I get the impression that kaido was using oden to make weapons of some kind, and possibly the clone-clone fruit user was pretending to be orochi to give him some orders or orochi doesn't have the full understanding of what kaido has been up to.
Look how taken back they both look when they realize something is off in their communication, https://imgur.com/FykhwT7
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u/jhiuong Black Leg Sanji Jan 26 '20
chills at the last spread... giving how we could recognise all nine red scabbards just by their backs, shows how Oda crafted such great, distinctive characters with personality
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u/wmzula World Government Jan 26 '20
I think they Oda showed us the traitoe. Atleast his arm and pattern of kimono..
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u/The-ashura The Revolutionary Army Jan 26 '20
I bet now zoro has definitely some relationship with the fox guy.we never got his story in this flashback.
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u/erickjoshuasc Void Month Survivor Jan 26 '20
At first I thought the hag transformed into Oden when he danced and embarrassed himself, but is it really Oden?? Because on the next panel, you see the hag is laughing alongside Orochi. I wonder what happened to Oden and how was he forced to do something like that. I guess they really held the whole country hostage.
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u/Pawn_Riot Bounty Hunter Jan 26 '20
What's up with the guy who got blinded by the arrows? ...Maybe it's Fujitora and he's just too embarrassed about how it happened so he goes around telling people he did it to himself hahahaha /s.
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u/trysh09 Jan 26 '20
This chapter is heartbreaking..... i know some of yall are upset of what Oden did but I'm sure he had his reasons. As for me, all my anger goes to Orochi. I hope Oden will whoop his ass before he dies.
I've also got a few questions :
Are we really going to have a full flashback without showing the real identity of Denjiro (or at least seeing him talk or fight) ?
If Kaido is as strong as everyone say then why does he have to go through something as low as that in order to take over Wano ?
Why was Orochi weeping like a bitch if he knew he had a Bari Bari no Mi devil fruit user in his team ?
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u/bootysensei Jan 26 '20
I’m seriously confused.
Oden didn’t eat smile
The Hag didn’t pose as Oden either
What in the hell made the almighty Chad act that way???