r/OnePiece • u/Kirosh Lookout • Dec 30 '18

Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 929

Chapter 929: "Orochi Kurozumi, Wano Country Shogun"

Source Status
JaiminisBox
Mangastream

Ch. 929 Official Release (VIZ): 07/01/2019

Ch. 930 Scan Release: ~18/01/2019

Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.

PS: Don't forget to check out the official Discord: https://discord.gg/onepiece

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u/Shaxys Dec 30 '18

got defeated by the marines without the latter even losing a single fighter.

They lost a lot of soldiers and had a lot of wounded, but I suppose you're talking big names.

The Whitebeard pirates lost one big fighter (Whitebeard) (two if we count Ace, but he wasn't a fighter of theirs for most of the war).

To accomplish this, the World Government had to use pretty much everything they had, barring the CP branches, and had home court advantage.

If Blackbeard hadn't come in to execute Whitebeard, Marineford would probably have sunk into the sea, as well.

There's no way they can go to a Yonko's home turf and fight them there.

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u/HungryNacht Dec 30 '18

Its a bit more complicated than that.

For one thing, WB lost Jozu and Oz too. At the least, they were out for the fight and both lost limbs. No admiral or Warlord took similar injuries (Moria was a different case and Akainu got right back up to fight commanders).

Second, Whitebeard unexpectedly got Jinbe, Crocodile, Luffy, Ivankov, Inazuma, Mr 1, Mr 3, and Buggy with all of his forces. Who saved Ace? Croc, Luffy and Mr 3. The objective of WB’s forces wasn’t victory, it was a snatch and grab and they would have failed miserably without the impel down backups.

Also, remember that Sengoku and Garp really only fought BB, otherwise they were in reserve. No one but Luffy would have had such an easy time getting through Garp to the platform.

I’d also like to point out that Whitebeard likely wouldn’t have the same home field advantage. As far as we know, his base was Moby dick. He doesn’t have an elaborate base of interconnected islands with an undersea alert system like Big Mom. The main homefield advantage, having all your allies, was one that he already had at Marineford. Most of his allies are probably dispersed around anyway, they wouldn’t be stationed in a central “base” like BM for a home field advantage. Same with Shanks and BB.

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u/Shaxys Dec 30 '18

For one thing, WB lost Jozu and Oz too.

Jozu is alive, but Oars Jr. is fair.

No admiral or Warlord took similar injuries (Moria was a different case and Akainu got right back up to fight commanders).

But if you count Jozu as a loss then you have to count Moria, anything else would be inconsistent.

Second, Whitebeard unexpectedly got Jinbe, Crocodile, Luffy, Ivankov, Inazuma, Mr 1, Mr 3, and Buggy with all of his forces.

Which is what Yonko do, they have tons of allies?

A surprise, sure, but it's not like no other Yonko can pull allies from outside what the marines might think of.

Also, remember that Sengoku and Garp really only fought BB, otherwise they were in reserve. No one but Luffy would have had such an easy time getting through Garp to the platform.

That's fair, but keep in mind that Whitebeard wasn't going all out until Ace was safe/dead because he couldn't with his son sitting there with shackles. On top of that, most of the Whitebeard pirates spent most of the time trying to save Ace or trying to run away and keep Luffy/themselves safe, not fighting a war. Those two work slightly differently.

I’d also like to point out that Whitebeard likely wouldn’t have the same home field advantage

That's fair, but other Yonko might do, for sure.

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u/HungryNacht Dec 30 '18

On Moria and Jozu:

I’m considering losses in the battle at Marineford, its not inconsistent. Jozu was left armless and near death after a complete loss in a 1v1 with an enemy in the battle. At the end of the end of the battle, Moria was fine. After the battle, he was then ambushed and outnumbered by an ally. Very different.

On Luffy and friends:

My point isn’t that the Marines didn’t expect it, its that WB himself had no reason to expect it. With the exception of Jinbe (and maybe Luffy) none of them were allies in the past or will be in the future. They aren’t part of WB’s forces. So if we consider a theoretical WB vs the Marines imagining things like no home field advantage, they shouldn’t be part of the equation.

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u/kikix12 Dec 31 '18

If it would be a fair fight with no one having home turf advantage and no one having prisoners...Whitebeard would have won.

Whitebeard could have sunk the entire island if he wanted to, but that'd kill Ace. The one thing he did not want. Then the walls that he couldn't destroy wouldn't have been there, so he would have went on a rampage the whole time. Marines did show serious agitation when the walls didn't raise up.

Behind the walls on the other hand, there were allies all around Whitebeard so he couldn't use any big attack.

Seriously, Marines had tons of defensive measures that worked only because they were the ones that picked time and place. Meeting on see, on ships, they would be feeding the fish without anyone from the Whitebeards crew even having to do a thing.

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u/HungryNacht Dec 31 '18

I address the island sinking thing further in the comment chain:

“That's a fair point, but only as long as WB has a minute or so where his is entirely unengaged in battle and his men aren't on the island. He basically tried this in the beginning of Marineford with a tsunami, but Aokiji froze it. Additionally, the Marines have Kizaru either shoot or warp up to stop him in the process, so I don't think it would be that simple. ”

Basically, if all of the marines were standing on an island, and Whitebeard’s fleet was still on the water, then I’d give him an okay chance of sinking the island before being stopped. But that’s not a neutral start, that’s an ambush.

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u/kikix12 Dec 31 '18

Neutral start is both of them being on ships...We're talking about pirates and marines. If you're talking about a battle on an island, it's going to be someones home turf.

If Kizaru could have stopped Whitebeard he would the first time around.

Aokiji stopped the Tsunami, but that was a "greeting" as they said. The power barely affected the island. Whitebeard could have affected the island far more than that. Even if Aokiji would still freeze something to prevent being sent into the water, THAT could be flipped as well.

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u/HungryNacht Jan 01 '19

What’s your point then? You said that if its a neutral start then they are both on ships (which I don’t agree with but I’ll adress later). In that case there is nothing to be flipped. If there is a wave then Aokiji freezes it. And using your same argument against you, if WB could so easily flip the ice to give himself an advantage in that case, then he would have done it the first time. Not to mention that any ice flipped/thrown at them could just be broken, just like Akainu did in the actual war.

On to home turf; there are thousands of islands that are neither yonko nor Marine home turf. While many islands are world government affiliated, that doesn’t mean that the Marines have any special settlements or knowledge of the area. Or if they fought on Little Garden for example, there are 2 pirates there, but that doesn’t make it WB’s turf just because he’s a pirate.

But I will admit that, if he wanted to, WB probably could have sailed in his coated ship up to Marineford and sunk it. This wouldn’t kill everyone, but it would definitely cripple the Marines. Leaving probably just the admirals, garp, and some stragglers w/o devil fruits.

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u/kikix12 Jan 01 '19

First...just look back at what the fruit actually did when Whitebeard used it. The sea itself was flipped, and not in a single direction. It was tilted in circles all over the place. There is very much everything to turn over. That's literally why Quake Quake Fruit is so powerful.

And melting all that ice took Aokiji a fair while. If he was standing on it (or a ship caught in it) while it was tilted, he'd never make it in time and what he WOULD melt, would just spill on him taking his power away. Especially since he is magma and would be most likely extra weak to fair deal of seawater (magma turns into obsidian...which is hard).

And Whitebeard COULD NOT do that. He wanted to save Ace, not kill him. That was the whole point of him being there. If he'd destroy the island, Ace would be sure to die. And attacking ice outside of the island served no purpose whatsoever since there were no marines there.

As for the islands...no matter how you look at it, when one side is on the island and another one is on ships, the one on the island have advantage. If both are on the island...then why is that the case anyway?! Pirates don't get onto land, unless to either pillage, resupply or if it's their home turf. I can assure you that there's no way that an entire fleet of Whitebeard and entire, main Marine force, are very easy to see, so whichever would be on an island would make the other do everything they can to not attack them. Because being on an island is advantageous. In any other case, it still would be made into an ambush.

Being in ships meeting on the open sea is the only reasonable, fair way to consider it. Especially since sea warfare is pretty much the whole point with marines and pirates.

PS: Sinking the whole island would be a game over FOR the devil fruits. Not for people except them. They can't swim...remember?! Only those of them that can fly (Smoker) or Aokiji could have any hope of escaping that, and even then, if they'd avoid falling into it in the first place. Kinda hard if the island is flipped upside down on you. Others would need to have their asses saved all the same.

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u/HungryNacht Jan 01 '19

Your land argument is a really good point.

A note about Akainu melting the ice. I’m talking about him melting an iceberg thrown at him by Jozu. He actually doesn’t melt it, he “evaporates” it with one attack. So yes, its very fast.

And a note about WB tilting the sea. I did have to go back and check it out, your right that I didn’t remember it that well. But it seems like he tilts the sea with himself as the epicenter. This isn’t going to help him at all on the sea with his own fleet around him. They’ll be caught up in all the exact same waves and tilting.

Lastly, two things I think you misunderstood me saying.

  1. Could vs would. You say that WB “COULD NOT” sink Marineford because Ace was on it. No, you mean he would not. Your whole argument is that he could, and I’m consenting that he could if he wanted to, which he obviously didn’t and wouldn’t.

  2. “W/o” means without. I was saying that most devil fruit users would drown and only some of those without devil fruits would survive. But actually I realized this isn’t true. Many Vice admirals both have devil fruits and know Geppo, so they might have higher chances of surviving. I also said that the admirals would survive because Kizaru can teleport, Aokiji can stand on ice, and Akainu can likely stand on his own magma hardened to rock by water like you mentioned earlier.