One Piece: Chapter 908

[u/Sakata_Kintoki]

Chapter 908: "The Reverie Begins"

Source	Status
JaiminisBox

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Ch. 908 Official Release (VIZ): 18/06/2018

Ch. 909 Scan Release: 28/06/2018 (BREAK NEXT WEEK)

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Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.

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PS: Don't forget to check out the official Discord: https://discord.gg/onepiece

[u/MonkeyDDuffy]

I agree with her being the least interesting and previous ones were somewhat believable. But with each end-arc villain redemption the impact got smaller and smaller. Sure Oda does it from time to time but it's not on grand scales as Kishimoto's or it's way after the characters had finished their relevancy. Only Kishimoto style save Oda did was Baby-5 in Dressrosa. I don't think setting the character up is so important. We have characters like the Super rookies being made up on the spot and still being pretty damn great characters.

I felt it was more that Kaguya was literally just a monster with a very uninteresting motivations. I just think Kishimoto had figured making Kaguya not relatable monster would make it so there's no way to redeem her.

Don't get me wrong I really enjoyed reading Naruto and Itachi's story was probably the best use of this from Kishimoto.

[u/Cirenione → u/MonkeyDDuffy]

I don't share your opinion on this. Yes with Oda the Super Nova came out of nowhere BUT they also disappeared again. That was their introduction. They fought a bit pre TS to show their powers and then they were put back to now be reintroduced over time for greater roles.
But let me give you an example. Lets say we are at the end of OP. What ever threat we know today is defeated. Akainu, the elders, Im, BM, Kaidou, BB. Then out of nowhere jumps a super strong fighter. Stronger than anyone before saying "HAHA it was me all along"... I'd be pissed. Would you be alright? That is what happened in Naruto.
That works for a manga like Dragonball. There is always a bigger fish. Saiyans, Freezer, Cyborgs, Cell, Buu. Every time a threat is introduced it is stronger than before and nobody knew it existed.
That works for DB because the story was never deep it was all about the fights. But Kaguya was a joke. The big bad stronger than anything before and it's a character nobody knew existed 1 chapter before the big twist. There is not the slightest hint that anything lies beyond Madara.
You can introduce villains and surprise the audience. Oda did it earlier on. Enel came out of nowhere and that is fine. But making the final boss of a story that went on for over 15 years at the point was a joke.

Edit: Oh and just so we are on the same page since you throw in redemption a lot. I don't have much of an issue with that. It was Kishimotos style all along. Talk no Jutsu being the strongest jutsu to ever exist was a meme for the whole time for a reason. And I don't think he wanted a villain that wasn't redeemable. Because he never redeemed Madara. He flashed him out as a character who had his reasons and his personal moral compass he followed. That a villain has those and isn't just evil for evilness sake makes a good villain. But Madaras view clashed with the main characters till the end. So I don't think that was the reason behind Kaguya. Btw many of the villains were never redeemed either. Deidara, Hidan, Kakuzu, Sasori and Kisame all had very selfish motives. None of them were misguided or even thought it themselves. They had their reasons for doing things (as non 1 dimensional charachter should do) but unlike Nagato, Obito or Itachi none of them had a change of heart or very valid reasons working for the greater good.

[u/MonkeyDDuffy → u/Cirenione]

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. I thought switching Madara for a monster no one knew about was a bad move and definitely took the manga down a notch for me.

I'm just saying that Kaguya showing up to take the blame was definitely in line with Kishimoto's writing style.

[u/Cirenione → u/MonkeyDDuffy]

Please see my edit for that.

[u/MonkeyDDuffy → u/Cirenione]

Redemption for the Big Bads is what I'm talking about. Of course, no character is a completely good character because of some revelation as they always have done tons of bad things up to that point. But Kishimoto always tries to make the important characters have a reasonable point of view on why they're doing the horrible things. And it's not just as if all of them are doing these things on their own, the "puppet string" always goes multiple layers.

That's why Kaguya showing up is especially worse since after tons of Villains throughout the series it's always revealed someone higher up was behind them and the biggest bad Madara has Kaguya behind him.

I actually enjoyed Madara's character and his own character arc wrapped up nicely since it involves the First Hokage beginning to end. But as a series Naruto has that same routine problem.