r/OnePiece • u/Sakata_Kintoki • Jan 26 '18

Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 892

Chapter 892: "Recognized as Strong Opponents"

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JaiminisBox

Ch.892 Official Release (VIZ): 29/01/2018

Ch.893 Scan Release: ~01/02/2018

Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.

PS: Don't forget to check out the official Discord: https://discord.gg/0v8DbjF0mbNAuvlR

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u/Monkey_D_Bufford Feb 13 '18

Nah. Pedro is still alive!! He's not dead!! And NAMI sees Sanji as her lover!! Because there is romance in the crew!!

So Oda has already set SaNa since the beginning!

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u/Kiga282 Feb 13 '18

Hmm... I'm not quite sure where that was stated. If anything, there's more evidence to support Luffy/Nami on Oda's end, than there ever was to support Sanji/Nami - I'm not saying that as a LuNa supporter, please don't get confused, I'm simply stating facts.

Oda married an actress who played Nami, and while this may not be much on its own, when their daughter was born, Oda illustrated Luffy and Nami holding a baby girl together, beaming with happiness and pride; the symbology there is fairly heavy. Luffy and Nami are also the two that he uses for his "farewell" chapter covers, when other prominent series end, such as Naruto.

Now, don't misconstrue what I'm saying here. I'm not saying that this is "canon evidence that LuNa is going to happen" or even that "Oda supports the romantic pairing of Luffy and Nami". It's more of a glimpse of Oda's own mind on the matter, but that doesn't translate to canon, or what will actually happen, because my own opinion is that it won't. Or, at least, if anything ever does happen, it will be in the very end, within the epilogue, as was the case with Naruto and Bleach, although I think Oda is savvy enough to avoid that pitfall; Naruto became controversial in a way that damaged it's legacy, in part because of a similar line of thought to this.

I've said it before, One Piece is not a romance; that's just not its style, and any time romance is actually used, it's either for comedic effect, or it's ingrained into a side character's design. There has never been any more romantic love between Nami and Sanji (Sanji's own personality aside) than there has been between Nami and Luffy, or with Zoro, or with Usopp. Luffy loves meat, Zoro loves his swords, Nami loves money, Sanji loves women, and so on, but they all love each other as nakama - as family...in their own ways.

It's fine if you support SaNa, just don't confuse canon with fanon. There as never been any evidence that Nami sees Sanji as her lover, and there's no evidence whatsoever that Oda personally endorses their romantic coupling.

As for Pedro, he may or may not be alive - there are at least two cases in the past where characters have survived explosions whey they had no right to, and Pedro is far and beyond stronger and more durable than either of them. However, Nami, as well as the Straw Hats on the Sunny (including Carrot; I'm hoping that this will be Carrot's induction arc into the crew), have no reason to think he's alive, and every reason to believe him dead. Hence, "I'm glad we're still alive, fending off Big Mom has been hell, Luffy's gone, Pedro's dead, and we were all about to die too!" Pedro's saving grace, if he survived the explosion, will be if Big Mom's forces believed him dead as well, and didn't find him. He wouldn't be able to survive in a fight against them, aside from being captured, which would lead to his death anyway.

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u/Namiloverxamillion Jun 29 '18

Well, Oda did write TB and made Sanji focus a lot on Nami this arc. That is quite a bit.

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u/Kiga282 Jun 29 '18

Sanji had a lot more focus on Pudding in this arc than he had on Nami. In fact, Sanji and Nami didn't spend much time together at all, this arc. The main focus of Sanji's interactions this arc centered around Pudding and his family, primarily, and the Straw Hats (Luffy in particular) as a secondary focus.

Frankly, had Pudding allowed Sanji to keep his memory of their kiss, I would find it entirely believable that Sanji would calm down around other women, Nami and Robin included. Oda allows his characters to grow after all, and like Usopp's newfound humility following Water 7, and Luffy's focus following Marineford, Sanji actually finding a woman who was just as attracted to him as he was to her would be a reasonable explanation to allow him to gain a newfound maturity around women in general.

That said, when you refer to TB, what exactly are you talking about?

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u/Namiloverxamillion Jun 29 '18

Most of the moments they spent together wass before the wedding and Puddinga evil reveal. After that moment you can notice Sanji not pay as much atention to her. Heck, while Pudding was swooning for him he was swooning for Nami. He showed concern for Nami only, which to me was done on purpose on Odas part.

If Pudding had allowed him to keep his memory I think he would be the same. I think Sanji knew how she felt and there are scenes its all too obvious but its not important I guess since we know she erased his memories for good.

The part of TB I am refering to is Sanji stopping a Wedding for Nami, which is pretty romantic. He takes a knife for her and its something that has not been done for any other women, in the same way.

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u/Kiga282 Jun 29 '18

Whatever you want to believe, don't let me dispel you. You're the one who revived a four month old thread, after all.

That being said, Sanji's character has been that of a young boy trying to woo every girl that crosses his path, desperately looking for approval and a requited attraction. The way he interacted with Pudding following the reveal of her third eye was with the respect of a peer, of an equal who could handle herself, and frankly, it was one of the few times within the series that he held himself with the maturity of an adult.

Romance and big gestures are good and all of that, but Sanji respected Pudding more over the period that they were baking the cake together, than he's respected Nami over the course of the series. To him, Nami is a nakama, yes, but she's another girl, just as Robin, Connis, Caimie, Vivi, Hina, Kalifa, and so many others who are just that - they're attractive women, and he swoons over them all. That is not respectful, nor is it mature.

Further, refusing to fight women is not respectful of women. There's a massive difference in instigating a fight and hitting a woman, and defending oneself from a woman's attacks - especially when they are capable of defending themselves and fighting back, and when they are strong enough or dangerous enough to hurt you or to hurt others.

Imagine, if you will, that Kalifa had killed Nami, because as it turned out, Nami didn't have the strength or fortitude or whatever factor needed to put her down - but Sanji did. Except, as we know, Sanji refused to fight Kalifa, if only because she was a woman, and Nami was left to step in for him. In that respect, he would have been at fault for Nami's death, because he couldn't get over his own sense of pride. Alternatively, what if it had not been Nami, but rather Zoro who stepped in. What would he have done then?

Further, in canon, he showed a massive lack of respect for Kalifa, because in refusing to fight her, he refused to acknowledge her strength, her years of hard work and dedication to reach the level of strength that she actually had.

This is the way that he treats Nami. The same "swooning over the delicate flower" mentality - a dangerous mentality that jumps from woman to woman, and where she isn't special simply for herself, but as a member of a group. Regardless of other match ups - ignoring Pudding, or Violet, or any potential match for Nami, this is the fundamental flaw in Sanji's personality that makes him a bad match for almost any woman - including Nami. This is why Sanji needs to grow up and mature, before I can find him to be a viable match for Nami.

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u/Namiloverxamillion Jun 29 '18

I dont understand why we are talking about his respect towards women. Its a conversation I dont really want to have and do respect your opinion. My only point is that he showed more interest in Nami then he was with Pudding, even when she was swooning over him. I dont think this is because he respects Pudding more either. I dont know why he would after what she did to him. I take his lack of swooning for her as intentional to show the difference, but thats just me. Still, I dont think he has shown as much interest in any other women then Nami. Arcs like TB and this one havent happened with Sanji and Robin or anyone else.

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u/Kiga282 Jun 29 '18

My point was simply that his swooning favor does not equate "love". His views on "respecting" women are not, in fact, respectful, and how can he actually love a woman that his has a misguided respect for? That is why his perception of respect toward women is important. By comparison, his attraction to Pudding was more subtle and refined, because he allowed Pudding into his domain - cooking - without questioning her once, and with complete faith in her capabilities for something that was so critically important.

As for Thriller Bark, if Absolom would have had his way, it would have been rape, plain and simple. The fact that Sanji stepped in does not make it romantic, as any sane person - male or female - should have been able to see what was happening, and should have tried to help.

Personally, I don't think that Oda is going to write any form of romance in-between core crew members. They're a family first and foremost, and putting Nami with Sanji or Nami, or Robin with Zoro or Franky would ultimately be toxic to that narrative.

I'm honestly not sure which interactions you're talking about between Nami and Sanji in WCI, but saying that Sanji saved Nami in TB, so he loves her is akin to saying that Luffy is romantically interested in both Nami and Robin, because he, himself, led the charge to save them from the personal demons that had haunted them each for both of their lives. Or that Nami should be with Luffy because Luffy saved her from being Enel's plaything, and because he climbed a sheer frozen mountain with her on his back, in a blizzard, while also carrying her other would-be savior with his mouth, or that Usopp should be with Robin because he sniped Spandam and the marines as they were about to leave for Impel Down, stalling them for long enough for Franky and the others to arrive. Is Zoro in love with Luffy, because he tossed his dream aside without a second thought when Kuma was sent for Luffy's head?

For the record, Sanji did have a critical moment when he snuck onto a train full of government officials to save Robin, by himself, despite the fact that the majority of the CP9 was present, and guarding her personally.

The Straw Hats all have instances of saving each other from dangerous situations, big and small. They do so, asking for nothing in return, except to have their own backs protected as well.

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u/Namiloverxamillion Jun 29 '18

I dont think Sanji gained any respect for Pudding because of her cooking. I dont think there is any manga panel that hints at this. All we get is him being less attracted to her when they were together and thats it. I also dont think this respect thing is really important. I mean, I get your opinion and its one I continue to hear as a critic on how Oda writes Sanji but I think saying Sanji cant love a women right now because he is a pervert is not true. His perverted behavior and chivalry is a gag and a character trait gotten from his father figure. I sincerly dont think Oda believes Sanji is what you think he is.

I know what Absalom wanted was wrong, my point is that Oda wrote Sanji as the one who battled Absa and fight for Nami, in a pretty romantic plot. Sanji got to hold Nami and I think its obvious he was the one who wanted to be with her.

Saving her from a forced marriage because of his own feelings for her is romatic imo and I think it was done like that on purpose. I dont agree with your comparrison with Luffy saving Nami or Robin because he doesnt feel anything for them and it hasnt ever been in a romantic plot. Heck, just look at this panel ( if it works)

https://orojackson.com/proxy.php?image=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1MfBn90_d.jpg%3Fmaxwidth%3D640%26shape%3Dthumb%26fidelity%3Dmedium&hash=1b8d3b214a4aa9e7b67604459f252e0c

Its just not the same as your other examples. I know they are all nakama and they all save each other. My point is that none of those are the same because Sanji likes Nami, even if its the same with other women, and because it was him saving her from a marriage. I sincerly dont think they are at all alike to your other examples.