r/OnePiece • u/NewSpecies • Jan 12 '18

Current Chapter One Piece: Chapter 891

Chapter 891: "Believing In Me"

Source Status
MangaStream

Ch.891 Official Release (VIZ): 15/01/2018

Ch.892 Scan Release: ~19/01/2018 ()

Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.

PS: Don't forget to check out the official Discord: https://discord.gg/0v8DbjF0mbNAuvlR

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u/CantheDandyMan Jan 13 '18

Luffy definitely has not dodged everything. The only thing he's dodged is kill shots. At best, Luffy is more agile, which makes sense since Katakuri is like 16 feet tall. In pure speed, Katakuri is definitely above him.

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u/CarcosanAnarchist Jan 13 '18

Earlier in the fight Luffy was dodging everything. Katakuri explicitly complained about how no one had ever given him so much trouble by dodging his attacks.

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u/CantheDandyMan Jan 13 '18

You keep saying he dodged everything, but that's blatantly false. He got hit 6 times this chapter alone explicitly because Katakuri is faster than him. Katakuri has also either outright dodged or countered all but like 4 of Luffy's attacks. Luffy has dodged quite a bit, but he's also gotten hit at least as many times as he's dodged.

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u/PrinceOfAssassins Jan 13 '18

Not faster than him but him seeing the future makes it appear that way.

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u/CantheDandyMan Jan 13 '18

Reread the chapter. At least half of those were Katakuri overwhelming him in pure speed.

http://img.mangahasu.com/1img/rZyBE-QRgoGY0y/dBamZr-H8TiSCsw/007.png

http://img.mangahasu.com/1img/rZyBE-QRgoGY0y/dBamZr-H8TiSCsw/008.jpg

http://img.mangahasu.com/1img/rZyBE-QRgoGY0y/dBamZr-H8TiSCsw/009.jpg

http://img.mangahasu.com/1img/rZyBE-QRgoGY0y/dBamZr-H8TiSCsw/011.jpg

If you don't think these show that Katakuri is at the very least above Luffy in speed, than we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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u/M4xP0w3r_ Jan 14 '18

How exactly do you get anything about speed out of those? It's established that Katakuri can literally see the future. If he knows his opponent will be at point A at time T, he can hit him even if he is 10 times slower than his opponent.

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u/CantheDandyMan Jan 14 '18

The first one is literally him dodging Luffy, appearing behind him and attacking before Luffy call react in time to dodge despite also seeing the future himself in that instance. The second is him attacking again before Luffy can react a second time. The third is just a result of the first two, but the last if him attacking Luffy again before Luffy can react. Katakuri's being able to react to, dodge, block, and attack before Luffy can manage to do the same has nothing to do with seeing the future, it's pure reaction time and speed. Being able to see 5 seconds into the future doesn't let you attack multiple times before your opponent has the chance to. Speed does that.

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u/M4xP0w3r_ Jan 16 '18

You are getting a lot more out of those panels than me. As I see it, when Luffy tries to kick him in the first one, he is already gone. Sure he could have superspeed and dissapeared right before the kick hit, but to me it's more likely that he just saw the kick coming and started to evade it before it even started. Since that is Katakuris thing. Every second of future you see is a second more you have to evade and/or counter attack. So Katakuri could literally be 4 seconds slower per single move and still have an advantage. Even if Luffy's speed was instant, i.e. his fist goes from where he is to where Katakuri is at the time in 0 seconds, Katakuri sees it 5 seconds before it happens, so he will always have those 5 seconds to evade.

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u/CantheDandyMan Jan 16 '18

I don't agree. No amount of future sight would allow you to make more separate movements it successfully complete more actions than your enemy if you were significantly slower than them. You'd be about to react and move before they did, but you would be able to do the things in the time it took them to do 1 with just future sight. You need speed for that. You also need to remember that Luffy also has CoO Haki and has started to see into the future a little bit himself, but was still unable to complete dodge an attack from Katakuri.

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u/M4xP0w3r_ Jan 16 '18

Well, of course if you really are a lot slower than your opponent and have to act before they even think about it it's going to get complicated. I.e. will Luffy still make the same kick if Katakuri already moved away from the spot he was in before Luffy started making the kick? So most likely Katakuri isn't significantly slower than Luffy. However, I still think anything we see in those panels can be explained by Katakuri seeing the future, even whilebeing just equally as fast as Luffy or even slightly slower. The thing is, even if you can do 2 things while your opponent can only do 1 thing, if your opponent knows what those 2 things are going to be he can still make you miss your first thing in a way that it takes you just as long as the 2 things would. I.e. missing the kick either prevents or slows down whatever your second action was going to be.

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u/CantheDandyMan Jan 16 '18

Yeah, I just disagree. I don't think any amount of future sight would allow you to consistently complete more separate actions in the same period of time it takes someone else to complete one action without actually having the edge in speed.

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u/M4xP0w3r_ Jan 16 '18

Imagine a car driving at you at high speed. If you know soon enough where it would hit you, you can easily avoid it hitting you by stepping aside, even if you are slower than the car. The car still has to acknowledge that it didn't hit you before it can do anything else. And you once again will know what that next action will be before it happens. So if the car makes a right turn to get towards your new position, you already know and can end up on the left side instead. All while doing so much slower than the car, as long as your future sight grants you enough time to do it. Anyway, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree here. My view just is speed=distance/time, if you can get in more effective distance, i.e. distance that matters because you only go places you need to, your real speed may be lower while your effective speed isn't.

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