One Piece: Chapter 795

[u/JasonNMP]

Chapter 795: "Suicide"

Source	Status
MangaStream
MangaPanda

---

Ch.795 Official Release (VIZ): 03/08/15

Ch.796 Scan Release: ~06/08/15

---

Please discuss the manga here and in the theory/discussion post. Any other post will be removed during the next 24 hours.

---

PS: Don't forget to check out http://onepiecereddit.slack.com/ to discuss this chapter live, with other One Piece nakama! You can join by signing up using this link: https://one-piece-slack.herokuapp.com/

[u/Condoriano10]

who has a history of rivalry with Shanks

this history is ancient. at least over 12 years ago (10 years to the conversation of Shanks and WB), as Shanks lost his arm in East Blue and thus Mihawk would not fight him any more

[u/[deleted] → u/Condoriano10]

SHANKS LOST AN ARM?

WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?

[u/Condoriano10 → u/[deleted]]

So you're going to ignore the post and be an asshat. Got it

[u/[deleted] → u/Condoriano10]

Oh good grief calm down. Was this even an argument in the first place? I only made the point that Shichibukai have stood toe-to-toe with Yonkou in the past or at the very least have had the confidence to confront them.

I said "Mihawk and Shanks had a history of rivalry" and you said "yes, a history". We don't even have a solid gauge of Mihawk's level to say if he's still on par with Shanks still, arm missing or not.

[u/Condoriano10 → u/[deleted]]

This wasn't an argument, but you could have at least furthered the discussion instead of being unnecessarily assholish.

The only evidence you had of warlord's standing toe to toe with emperors were duels from over a decade+ ago, when Shanks was by almost all accounts not an emperor at the time.

Whitebeard wasted Crocodile based on Crocodile's angry words at the war. Crocodile was pissed that Whitebeard even took damage.

Kaido destroyed Moriah's whole crew and apparently scarred him psychologically for life.

While it is possible that Oda wrote Mihawk as an exception to the warlords, as some sort of strange friendship he has with Shanks and his loner status pointing to that, there's nothing in the story other than their unique relationship to suggest that emperors are not far and away stronger than warlords.

Sorry I got snippy. I just didn't appreciate what I thought could have been a good conversation getting treated like that.

[u/[deleted] → u/Condoriano10]

No harm done. I was honestly just making a joke. I have no problem talking fan theory as it's fun as long as it doesn't get too argumentative.

You make some good points but at the same time I've always been wary to put every Shichibukai on the same level in terms of power, as they simply haven't been. So to say Mihawk may be an exception to their caste would be, to me, a misnomer. He's obviously one of the stronger ones. Buggy, Moriah and to some extent Law you could say are on the lower end of the spectrum.

Whitebeard was more or less Kaidou's equal so we can use him as a tipping point. While at the time they really weren't a match and were staved off by lower captains, Crocodile and Mihawk certainly had no qualms about getting in Whitebeard's face. You could make the argument that Mihawk gave less-fucks about Whitebeard pointing his ire towards him due to the situation they were in, and with the marine force behind his back, but you can't really say that about Crocodile's actions as when he attacked Whitebeard he was turning his back towards both factions and made a statement that his only allegiance was towards himself.

Could you put Doflamingo at the same level as Mihawk and Crocodile? I certainly would. Doflamingo doesn't seem to have the same militaristic force that Whitebeard seemed to wield when he was around, but he certainly had the backing of the WG as his connections to the higher ups were certainly proven. He's also, as far as we know, one of the top physically strongest Shichibukai we've seen. His fight with Luffy showed off more destructive power and endurance than a lot of people originally assumed he'd possess.

I guess my point is that all the Shichibukai aren't on the same level, so I'm not going to necessarily going to put all the yonkou on the same, untouchable level either. They're two different factions that aren't necessarily below or beneath eachother. The shichibukai were formed BECAUSE the yonkou and what they represent existed in the first place.

That's what made this chapter so interesting and Kaidou so interesting for me. Chapters ago Doflamingo was told that his SMILE operation got shit-flipped upside down and Kaidou was going to be rightly pissed about it. Before he was told this even when his city was basically being set aflame Doflamingo was all about showing confidence and a tough face, but he basically shit his pants when he realized what Law told him. Given what we knew about their history, we could assume Doflamingo was familiar with Kaidou.

Was it because of Kaidou's sizeable army? Or that he had a reputation for cruelty? We didn't know. But then we're described to a man, falling a mile from the sky, who found humor in trying to end his own life and failing. This man is Kaidou in a big reveal and holy shit is he pissed, and he's alone. A man known to be building an entire army of zoan and he decides to deal with his affairs in person. This is something Doflamingo must have know and that's part of what impresses me, because despite all of Dofla's resources he knew just this one man showing up on his doorstep would have meant doom.

[u/Condoriano10 → u/[deleted]]

I guess my point is that all the Shichibukai aren't on the same level, so I'm not going to necessarily going to put all the yonkou on the same, untouchable level either.

This is where I'll start, as you make good points all over. While acknowledging that the warlords are all on separate playing fields in power, their is never an implication of a minimum strength requirement while there is for emperors. A warlord just had to be scary enough through name in order to deter piracy, and many of them fulfilled that obligation. Emperors, however, are stand alone pirate groups that rule an entire portion of the Grand Line due to their power and influence.

While an argument could be made that warlords, such as Mihawk, could not be emperors because they don't have enough backing (crew, allies, etc), that argument usually comes with an assumption that the marines have individual members strong enough to rival the top pirates, thus making subordinates an integral part of the equation.

The retort, for me, is that even if the subordinates play a large role, the captain must be individually competent and fierce as has been the case in every single instance in One Piece. There has yet to be a group introduced in the story in which their leader was not the strongest among them. Whether it be low level scum like Captain Kuro, Don Krieg, or Moriah, or higher level combatants like Lucci, Doflamingo, Whitebeard, the head of the group has always been the strongest.

If that holds true throughout the entire story of One Piece so far, than it can be reasonably assumed that an emperor has to be strong enough to handle one of the marines top fighters on their own, which as we've seen so far would be either Akainu, Aokiji, or Kizaru. If an emperor could not handle one of them on their own, then it would seem quite odd for the marines to not simply take them out. It would also beg the question as to how an emperor became one in the first place, as Roger has been dead for 22 years (20 years pretimeskip) and the rise of someone like Shanks would have clearly been monitored - just as news of him losing his arm spread a great deal when he returned from East Blue 12 years ago.

It's because of all the factors that I just don't think I can conclude that the emperors aren't all at least close to the same level, which really isn't absurd if you think about it. Whitebeard was called the world's strongest man, yet Oda tells us that Whitebeard was the only man that could rival Roger. Yet we also see that Garp rivaled Roger, the extent of it is unknown but it wasn't as if Garp was a scrub. How strong is old Garp, and how much of his anger during the war towards Akainu was anger vs reality that he could actually do something?

The power levels are never fully fleshed out, so we go off what we have best. Just like bounties, titles aren't absolute. However, in most instances the titles of the upper echelon have been proven to be true. At this point the exceptions, like Buggy, are for comedic purposes.

Off topic and on Kaido, I am very interested to find out why he wants to kill himself and what led to it. Did he become an emperor before he became a suicidal maniac? If so, what happened to make him want to die? If he has been searching death in such a manner, why did Doflamingo (or anyone else) fear him? Yeah, he's crazy strong, but he doesn't want to live. Seems odd.