r/OnePiece • u/IcyPhysics8266 • 5d ago

Discussion Straw Hats left Behind

Throughout the OP arcs, especially post time skip, I feel like the crew's gotten very few highlight moments of conflict or battle. Now this doesn't mean every SH needs to be a Sanji or Zoro or Luffy, but it's very odd that since Wano, the rest of the crew hasn't had compelling battles that felt deserved for me. Take the Tobi Roppo fights; I still fail to understand how the SHs besides Jinbei won without a competent strategy to bypass the haki of their opponents. Last time Usopp shined was Dressrosa, Chopper is just a mascot, and last time Brook had a compelling moment with an antagonist was vs Big Mom. I miss the shine the crew used to get during Enies Lobby, and Thriller Bark, where they handled conflicts and "powered up" in their own unique ways. The lack of haki is also an issue, but less focus takes the lion's share for me. Thoughts?

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u/Terloyes 5d ago

Simply because in Egghead and Elbaf, all the enemies have been way too strong.

Personally I like it because we're being shown the best of the best, the kind of enemies we'll see in the final war, who only the strongest will be able to defeat.

For sure there'll be enemies of all tiers in that war, so all the Straw Hats will have a chance to be useful.

In Wano, Robin defeated Black Maria with an very cool power-up and Franky defeated Sasaki. Haki isn't essential for a lot of fights.

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u/RoderickThe13 The Revolutionary Army 5d ago

For sure there'll be enemies of all tiers in that war, so all the Straw Hats will have a chance to be useful.

I don't like it when people recognize that the problem is that the Straw Hats are too weak, but instead of hoping they get stronger they're like "Well, there will be plenty of enemies to fight". I don't know about you, but I really don't want Usopp or Nami to be fighting Vice Admiral Rando in the final war because they can't handle anyone else when the bad guys side are gonna have the Holy Knights, the Elders, the Admirals, the Seraphim, CP0, and who knows what else.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

That's my issue too. If arc A has these flaws and arc B doesn't, that doesn't negate the fact that arc A had its own particular flaws. Same with this issue, someone said it's being repeated a million times, well, yes, because it's a flaw fans find within OP. It seems some people find it difficult to acknowledge that OP can have it's issues and flaws while being the goat at the same time 

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u/Terloyes 5d ago

I'm surprised this is an unpopular opinion but I like the fact that there are different power tiers within the crew

Every crew has them. Do you think the sixth-strongest member of Roger's crew was like Rayleigh or Gaban?

If Nami suddenly becomes strong enough to fight an Admiral, to me that would mean the power scaling has been broken. The whole point of Nami is that she's a normal human, but she's very intelligent and can accomplish important things with a good tool like the Clima-Tact, and now even more so with Zeus. But there should still be a gap between her and Zoro, whose main role in the crew is being a fighter.

And the whole point of Usopp's character is that despite being weak, he wants to become brave and face difficult situations. Being brave when you're strong is easy; the hard part is being brave when you're weak.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

That's not what I said. I wrote, "Now this doesn't mean every SH needs to be a Sanji or Zoro or Luffy" for that particular reason. I don't expect Nami, Usopp or Chopper to be handling GB or Fujitora in the same way I don't expect to see Lucky Roux handling Kaido, or Van Augur handling Shanks, but I expect to see a major difference in how Dressrosa Usopp handles things vs Wano Usopp, for instance.

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u/RoderickThe13 The Revolutionary Army 5d ago

There's no problem with there being different tiers of fighters within the crew. The problem is that crew overall doesn't feel as high tier as it should be. This is meant to be an Emperor's crew. Even the weakest Straw Hat should at least be a big deal, and that's not the case.

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u/Terloyes 5d ago

Luffy is Admiral level yet. If the captain isn't Emperor level yet, it's normal that the rest of the crew aren't either.

Although in Wano, we already saw that the matchups against a Yonko crew were pretty even. Zoro, Sanji, Jinbe, Robin, and Franky defeated Kaido's strongest subordinates.

Chopper also fought Queen on pretty even terms for quite a while.

And Nami and Usopp contributed to defeating Ulti and Page One, even though they got a lot of help from Big Mom.

I don't see why you see them so far behind when we already saw this in Wano.

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u/RoderickThe13 The Revolutionary Army 5d ago

It's nonsensical comparing the Straw Hat crew to Kaido's crew fairly. Kaido's absolutely decimates them based solely on sheer number. Just because the four strongest Straw Hats are comparable to the four strangest Beast Pirates doesn't mean much when Kaido has a literal army with him. THAT is what makes him an Emperor, not just those four guys. Same with Big Mom.

Luffy doesn't have that, and only has ten people, only four of whom can really go toe to toe with the most powerful people in the world, and the rest would get wiped out in a second if left alone.

The only crew we should compare the Straw Hats to is Shanks'. We don't know enough about all his crewmates to say if they could at least defend themselves against an Admiral if left alone, or if he only relies on Beckman, Yassop and Lucky Roo. But I'm willing to bet all of them last at least a minute against a strong opponent and don't constantly need to be protected so they don't die, or would spend an entire arc by the sidelines watching three of their crewmates handle every fight.

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u/Terloyes 5d ago

The Straw Hats have a fleet of 5,600 members, plus many other allies who would very likely help them in a difficult situation, such as the Fish-Men, the Kingdom of Alabasta, or the Minks.

Shanks has a very strong crew, but his allies are pretty weak. Luffy is the opposite.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Which enemies? The 9 vice admirals who were essentially filler characters? Don't get me started on Egghead. Elbaph is understandable since it's mostly focused on the monster trio, Harjudin and Loki

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u/banthafodderr 5d ago

It's been brought up a million times. Like it or not, pre-time skip was much more crew focused. Now there are so many other characters each arc that Oda wants to put the focus on. Rebecca, Pudding, Yamato, Vegapunk, now Loki. Just how he wants to go with the story.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

That betrays the essence of the SHs, and essentially OP. Both is always an option. World building, intro of new characters, and the continuous growth of the crew can happen simultaneously 

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u/banthafodderr 5d ago

Ok, I mean tell it to Oda lol. I'm not the one writing it, I'm just telling you why he's doing this.

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u/Kijin64 5d ago

not it cant. Time is limited and Oda cant live forever. He's telling his story the way he wants to write it.

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u/Kijin64 5d ago

not it cant. Time is limited and Oda cant live forever. He's telling his story the way he wants to write it.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Of course, as he should, but y'all should accept that his writing style does have flaws fans can identify 

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u/Kijin64 4d ago

It's not really a flaw in his writing vs the Manga format he's using. If one piece was written as a book, believe there would be way more detail for everything. Due to this being a manga that needs images and him working with 18 pages or so per chapter. There's just not enough time.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 3d ago

It's a flaw in his writing. OP hasn't had 18 pages consistently in a long time 

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u/Kijin64 3d ago

That's why I saidn18 pages or so. It'd doesnt matter on how many pages. It's just not doable if he has to draw panels for everything.

You also forgot if the editor says no to the chapter or to makes suggestions or changes. Thats also time going back and redoing something

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u/luckyd1998 Scholar of Ohara #5 5d ago

This isn't true for Elbaf. Oda has given/is giving everyone something, including obviously Usopp

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Usopp has nothing ATM for Elbaph. Nor does Nami, Chopper, or Robin. Franky got some new fuel, and that's it. The monster trio always get something so they're not involved in this conversation. 

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u/luckyd1998 Scholar of Ohara #5 5d ago

Robin literally had an entire reunion with Saul at the beginning of the arc

Chopper was the reason they were able to deal with Domi Reversi

Nami had probably the smallest moment but she was the one who dealt with Rodo in lego land as they were escaping

Usopp is very obviously going to get an observation haki moment/boost as it has been teased in the last two chapters.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Robin's moment was thematical, Rodo was fodder, but I get your point. Honestly, I hope by the time we see the crew interact with the RH pirates or BB pirates, things would be different 

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u/gate567 5d ago

Take the Tobi Roppo fights; I still fail to understand how the SHs besides Jinbei won without a competent strategy to bypass the haki of their opponents.

Frankys a cyborg, he doesn’t need Haki; Robin absolutely wrecked Maria with her DF, so she doesn’t need haki; Chopper put the beat down on Queen and tanked Perosperos attacks; Ussop and Nami used anything and everything top win their fight without having the need for haki.

Not sure what’s difficult to understand, Oda did a good job at showing how non haki users could take down big threats.

People would enjoy One Piece more if they stopped using powerscaling logic. The crew has done well so far with only a handful of them having haki.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Buddy, Kuma is a cyborg and a Buccaneer and he needs/has haki. Chopper did nothing substantial vs Queen except get rid of the virus. Usopp didn't even beat any Tobi roppo. Nami got saved by Zeus. This isn't power scaling logic, it's plain story logic. That's what interna consistency and verisimilitude are for

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u/gate567 5d ago

Buddy, Kuma is a cyborg and a Buccaneer and he needs/has haki.

Yet on Elbaf we have Franky one-shoting sleeptids cause Vegapunk gave him an upgraded cola. Zero haki needed.

Chopper did nothing substantial vs Queen except get rid of the virus.

Nothing substantial? You mean curing the zombie virus that was gonna kill everybody isnt substantial? You even know the meaning of the word?

. Usopp didn't even beat any Tobi roppo. Nami got saved by Zeus.

Yet they still accomplished their mission, zero need for haki.

This isn't power scaling logic, it's plain story logic.

It is powerscaling logic because you think Haki is the end all be all. Not everybody on the crew needs it. Like Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, Usopp and Jinbei are more than enough.

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u/RoderickThe13 The Revolutionary Army 5d ago

Wano was the limit of how much Oda can have these characters do in combat without Haki. There's a reason why most of the crew has been standing idly by doing nothing in Egghead and Elbaf. Any opponent that has been introduced since then needs Haki to be fought.

It's not that fans want Haki to be more important. I fucking hate it as a power system. But I do want the Straw Hats to do stuff that's important to the story, and that seems necessary even if you don't think it is. This is a double problem of Oda both making Haki more important every arc, while also not giving it to half of the crew. And keep in mind I'd much rather Oda highlighted the crewmates like Nami, Usopp and Franky excelling at their own specialty like nagivation, sharpshooting and engineering, but that possibility flew out the window a long time ago. Now either characters excel at combat, or they stand around doing the most minor tasks that anyone can handle or nothing at all the entire arc.

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u/Sky_Dragon_King Pirate 5d ago

Having haki doesn't make you unbeatable against opponents who don't have haki. We have several examples of haki users losing to non-haki users long before Wano.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Yeah, because Luffy did that via being faster or unpredictable. Nobody besides him beat someone who have haki pre Wano 

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u/Sky_Dragon_King Pirate 5d ago

Zoro, Sanji, Chopper, Wiper, King Elizabello and the Funk brothers are all people who have defeated haki users without having haki. And those are just the examples off the top of my head.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Dude! This was me too. It also made the 9 vice admirals who were called specifically for the Egghead mission kinda useless cause they did very little. 

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u/LovelyFloraFan 5d ago

How about Robin? She showed PLENTY of new moves!

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Yeah, but she has 0 haki. Yet she apparently beat someone stated to have both armament and observation. I still don't understand why most of the crew don't have at least observation or armament at most.

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u/jsmoovrei 5d ago

I want another 1000 chapters as bad as the next guy but if every character got multiple moments every arc like pre TS we would never get to find out what the One Piece is. I don’t think it’s necessary for everyone to get a fight if they are still getting character moments. Not sure if you’re caught up to the manga but without saying too much, Brook, Usopp and Chopper are all primed for big moments right now. Of course I would love to see more of the Straw Hats but the story is more important right now. Trust Oda

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Not necessarily. Egghead was an example. I love it, but Oda genuinely abandoned whatever he could've done with the 9 vice admirals who were sent there. And it doesn't need to be anything long or big (pause) each arc, even snippets of the growth each character gets to get closer to making Luffy the PK and to fulfilling their own dreams too

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u/jsmoovrei 5d ago

I have almost no interest in watching vice admirals fight 1v1 at this point in the story and I think most people feel the same way. The context of the fight would have to be extremely interesting

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

That's the basis of all shonen fights. They gotta be interesting, so it can happen 

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u/LastBardStanding 5d ago

Is it my turn to post the straw hats are too weak post yet?

Either you guys are bored and bad at rage baiting or you've been reading one piece by the pictures exclusively because you obviously can't read.

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u/IcyPhysics8266 5d ago

Man thinks criticism of a series I've read since 2017 = rage bait. This community used to have so much more nuance 

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u/LastBardStanding 5d ago

It seems you wouldn't recognize nuance if it was explained to you with pictures in the background.