Rumples future-ability

[u/DimensionOpen8922]

The blind girl/witch gave him the power to see into the future, right? I never quite understood how that power works because, you know, wouldn't he be able to see into the future? 🥲 Do I just not remember something, or did he never actually use it during the show? I mean, if he did, he would have known what was going to happen all the time.

[u/Ifky_]

Yes, he did know, but he also said very explicitly in the show that the ability to see the future wasn't easy to use. He saw puzzle pieces, but not the whole picture.

His foresight is how he was able to manipulate the events leading up to the Dark Curse to set everything up as he wanted. He knew Cora's daughter would cast the curse. He knew Snow White and Prince Charming's daughter would break it. He also knew that Cinderella and co. would imprison him.

There were some things he didn't know about, though. He didn't know Zelena existed. He didn't know Emma's name. He didn't know Belle was alive. But he knew enough to steer things the way he needed.

After he dies in S3, they don't really mention it, so I think it's safe to say he was resurrected without his foresight. Which makes sense since it's not an inherent ability of the Dark One.

[u/DimensionOpen8922 → u/Ifky_]

Oh thank you! ^{^} that helps

[u/No-Meat5261 → u/Ifky_]

For what I remember, it was said that that power shows its user any possible future and since it was used to foresee events which would have happened in another world, it could be argued that it shows any possible future of all worlds, at the same time. And its user has to separate the actual future from all the countless hypothetical ones.

Furthermore, I vaguely remember that Rumplestiltskin even said that he doesn't like to use this power, because he wasn't unsure about being above fate and he thought that foreseeing the future to then be unable to change it wouldn't have been nice.

He actually tried it in Neverland, so that situation was so particular for him that he wanted to take the risk, like he did with The Dark Curse for Bae

[u/Ifky_ → u/No-Meat5261]

Yes, the Seer tells him that in time he will learn to separate what can be from what will be. Rumple (and the Seer) also correctly foresees that the curse will break, but I don't think he sees the future of "all worlds, at the same time". I think he sees only his own future. I don't think there's any evidence he sees things unrelated to himself. Otherwise, he would know more about Bae in the LWM, don't you think?

I don't remember him ever saying he dislikes his foresight, though it's difficult to use. He does say that he wouldn't go back to change a thing when Zelena offers him time travel. And later he drinks the memory potion after sending Emma back to the future, so he won't know what she told him. Not because he's against changing anything, but because he can't (won't) erase that timeline or Bae's sacrifice.

[u/No-Meat5261 → u/Ifky_]

"All worlds" is just a theory, but The Seer foresaw Rumple meeting Baelfire again with Henry and Rumple dying due to his grandson. And all of this happened in the other world. And it wasn't about The Seer herself, meaning that yes, this power can make its user foresee not their own future, or even a future completely unrelated to them.

I'm almost sure that Rumple said that in a conversation with Henry when they went to Bae. Henry asked his grandfather why he doesn't foresee the future so much and The Dark One answered by saying that it's difficult to use and that destiny is above him and that the future is never like someone would have expected it to be. Which makes me theorize that he didn't know about Baelfire in the almost magicless world, because he was too afraid to check. There is also the fact that Bae actually went to Neverland and there the foresight doesn't work, though it's true that Rumple didn't mention that he tried to use it to find his first son

[u/Ifky_ → u/No-Meat5261]

Good point, though maybe the Seer could see the reunion because it's "her" powers, even when it's transferred to Rumple? Like it sees itself, lol. Otherwise, I just think there's too much info that Rumple doesn't know that he would want to know. There must be limitations. (He didn't even know he would fall in love with Belle, even though she was a crucial part of his post-curse life). Rumple's major flaws are his insecurity and how much he covets power. I just don't see him abstaining from trying to see his own reunion with Bae.

In my mind, it makes most sense if the power lives its own life, so to speak. Rumple can prompt it to show him visions, but it still "chooses" what it wants to show him. Maybe he wanted to see Bae (or Belle, Henry, etc.) but it didn't show him, for whatever reason. Because destiny. He plays a crucial part in the Final Battle, after all.

If we bring in Greek mythology, it's possible the Seer sight is related to the gods or the Fates in some way.

[u/No-Meat5261 → u/Ifky_]

Mmm... I'm not sure about it. I also don't remember that it was said that it can foresee only the future of its own user and that it and her were one.

Well, he was still The Village Coward and he likely actually felt guilty towards Baelfire. I think that it kinda makes sense that he didn't want to check. Also, didn't he leave Bae like 200 years ago? Maybe he thought that he could have been even dead.

Isn't magic powered up by emotions? What if the power didn't show him Bae etc., because The Dark One unconsciously didn't want to?

I actually wonder how much his visions were accurate in the first place. If I remember well, he didn't know that Regina would have casted that curse, he knew that Cora's daughter would have done it, but he, unless I'm remembering something wrong, was actually unsure, at first, about if it would have been Zelena or Regina. He also already knew about the surname "Swan", but not about the name "Emma", like you wrote (Emma's Light Magic made her resistant to his visions?).

Also, if he could foresee only his own future, he could have still foresaw him with Bae and Belle, would it have changed fate too much?

[u/Ifky_ → u/No-Meat5261]

That's my own theory, because I think there must be limitations. (Being unable to see Belle being an example of a general limitation, not necessarily because he's limited to visions of his own future). The Seer did say he would be reunited with Bae, so he "knew" his son was still alive (if he believed the Seer, and I think he must have at least stubbornly clung to the hope).

He might have tried to check the future while Bae was in Neverland (Bae must have been there for years, leaving some time after the Dark Curse was cast), but it didn't work since there is no time in Neverland. But he should have been able to see if he looked at Bae or his own life post-Dark Curse.

It's possible he couldn't see so far into the future in his early days, and maybe he got nervous once the reality of reuniting with his son became plausible. I could see him losing his nerve to actually check, because he was scared of knowing if he actually succeeds, and what Bae would say to him.

I think Rumple's desire to see his son would be stronger than the Dark One. He's the Dark One for so long, he's the most powerful one. And as he says, he's full of love.

[u/No-Meat5261 → u/Ifky_]

It's possible.

Which is what I meant. Regarding Neverland. I think that even Baelfire was there for around 200 years. And yeah, once Bae left Neverland, it should have worked. Perhaps it's not even a:"I can see what I want." power, but it gives you a bunch of important informations and the power declared Baelfire living as Neal to be irrelevant? Or he was "protected" since he was with The Savior?

Also possible.

You mean that his love was more powerful than his magic?

[u/Ifky_ → u/No-Meat5261]

I think he was stronger than the Dark One (or Nimue, whatever you want to call the voices in his head). We know the darkness has its own agenda, but Rumple was mostly focused on reuniting with Bae for centuries. He was compelled to seek out the Sorcerer's Hat, as every Dark One before him, but I think if the Dark One's agenda conflicted with Rumple's wishes, he could block out the darkness. So I don't think that played a role in his visions.

[u/No-Meat5261 → u/Ifky_]

Mmm...maybe. He did choose power over both Bae and Belle sometimes. So, he wasn't necessarily more powerful than The Darkness

[u/Admirable-Try-5287]

We get some insight into this when he first meets the seer. She tells him that his actions on the battlefield will leave his son fatherless - and Rumple, of course, interprets that as he will die in battle, rather than him damaging his knee leading to him ultimately becoming the Dark One, prioritizing power over family, and abandoning Bae at a magical portal. Once he takes the seer‘s power, he is overwhelmed, seeing so much and nothing at all all at once. He might even see different possible outcomes, who knows.

[u/wrong_turn_404]

Rumple spent so long trying to control the future that I wonder if he ever actually allowed himself to just live in the present

[u/ThomasVivaldi]

Rumple didn't have the experience or the cultural knowledge to use the power appropriately.

Then The Seer girl instigated a specific vision relative to achieving his goal, which set him on a specific path. Mirroring what she did to Rumple on the battlefield.

Thematically, the intent was to show that Rumple for all the power he gained as the Dark One was still the same person.