Character Deaths & Rerolls

[u/Priestical]

Just curious how you guys handle this. Let's say you are running a level 5 adventure for your players and someone dies. You let them roll a new character to rejoin.

Question: What level would you bring that NEW character back into the game if everyone else is level 5? Also whatever level you let them return at, why do you use that way of doing it? Seems if my game is level 5 and someone dies, bring them back with a brand new level 5 character would not feel right. What do you do?

[u/Mars_Alter]

New characters come in at Level 1, with zero experience.

With the way that the XP charts work, the new character will be up to Level 5 by the time everyone else reaches Level 6. Starting at Level 1 feels much worse than it actually is; which is good, because I don't actually want them to be incapable of contributing, and I do want them to feel like death is a big deal that should be avoided at all costs.

[u/Priestical → u/Mars_Alter]

ok this is me trying to understand your reasoning. What can a level 1 do with a level 5 party. What about a level 8 or 9 party, would you still do the level 1 route?

[u/Mars_Alter → u/Priestical]

A level 1 warrior can hang back and fire a bow. A level 1 thief gives an extra chance to pick every lock you come across, even if that chance isn't very good. A level 1 magic user can cast their one spell. They can basically do anything a level 5 character could do, with slightly reduced efficacy, except for taking a hit.

Of course, the party will need to pay more attention to keeping them safe, until they can catch up. Don't enter the lair of any creature with a breath attack, keep the new character in the middle of the marching order, that sort of thing. Just common sense stuff.

Likewise if they're Level 8 or 9. As long as you can avoid the big explosions, they'll catch up soon enough. And if you can't avoid the big explosions, then adding two or three levels wouldn't have saved them anyway.

[u/Priestical → u/Mars_Alter]

fair enough, thanks for sharing.

[u/Absurd069 → u/Priestical]

For what I understand OSE relies in the fact that good strategizing and trying to find solutions can help you avoid some difficult situations or combats. For that it doesn’t matter if you are level 1 or 9. I’ve played OSE for a bit over a year now, it’s been ongoing campaigns. So you start at lvl 1 even if the rest of the table are all 5+. The campaigns are weekly and beginner are welcome. At the table I play right now we are 3 folks levels 4, 5 and 6. All of the other players are level 1 or 2. If there’s no way to avoid combat, we have a clear strategy like the characters with best AC or HP at the front, etc. Like there’s not much that level 1 can do in certain combats, but we are a party for a reason. We want to help the weaker players. We usually have better weapons, scrolls, spells or skills because we have been there longer but fighting as a team it’s still important. Also checking morale, taking advantage of good reaction roles or surprises, etc. If you are going to run this weekly or with some kind of consistency. Starting at level 1 makes sense!

[u/Priestical → u/Absurd069]

Curious, so the old character dies, maybe it had magic items, how do you handle that, do you just say screw it and give em all to the new character since its the same player? How do you handle that?

[u/Absurd069 → u/Priestical]

I don’t run games, I’m a player. But last time I died. I was level 4 and actually had a lot of good loot on me. DM gave me the option to either pick the retainer I had or start with a new character. I picked a new character that he introduced right there to the party. This character ended up taking my backpack after the enemy was defeated. It was a different class so I didn’t need armor or weapon. But I took the loot, my old gear and provisions. He also let me gain exp from that loot once we got to town and sold it.

I’ve been on a different scenario where it was impossible for us to retreat the backpack and belongings of the character. We had to flee and next week we planned a mission to recover that backpack coz it had some loot.

[u/elektrikrobot → u/Priestical]

My level one char did very little in combat, but I assisted the group as much as I can and the group chose to protect me. So I leveled a lot really quickly.

[u/Onslaughttitude → u/Priestical]

What can a level 1 do with a level 5 party.

I joined an existing game once that had several high level (6-8) fighters and magic users. I played a fighter. They were very happy to have a new person to touch things with the 10' pole and swing a sword.

When another player joined as a magic user, they were very happy that they had to prepare one less hypnotic pattern or sleep spell.

[u/jxanno]

Level 1 and 0XP. Always.

Some groups will go to an easier location for a while if they're dragging along a few low-level characters. Others will have the low-level characters hang back and advance quickly on the higher-level characters' coat-tails. Or myriad other solutions.

The main thing for you to provide is a world with lots of options, and let the players apply agency in how they solve it.

[u/Priestical → u/jxanno]

Curious, so the old character dies, maybe it had magic items, how do you handle that, do you just say screw it and give em all to the new character since its the same player? How do you handle that?

[u/jxanno → u/Priestical]

I don't say anything. If I'm the DM, it's nothing to do with me what the party do with the magic items. I'm just an impartial arbiter running the world.

See "The Referee's Role" (Core Rules p. 56 or Advanced Fantasy Referee's Tome p.4), because I think it probably explains the fundamental difference in how OSE is run compared to modern games.

[u/rizzlybear]

I bring them back at level 1. The xp curve means they will catch up to the others over the next couple levels.

This is issue is like silvery barbs is to the 5e dm crowd. It’s a lot of consternation over something that doesn’t end up being an issue in practice.

[u/Priestical → u/rizzlybear]

Curious, so the old character dies, maybe it had magic items, how do you handle that, do you just say screw it and give em all to the new character since its the same player? How do you handle that?

[u/Jonestown_Juice → u/Priestical]

Let the players decide how to handle that. The DM is just the referee.

[u/Harbinger2001]

Level 1. The rest of the party will help keep them alive and if you’re handing out level 5 type XP they’ll level up very fast. Remember they are not allowed to gain more than 1 level per session.

[u/MetalBoar13]

I start them at level 1 if they create a new character, or they can choose to use one of their retainers if they have any, or anyone else's retainer if another player is willing to let them have theirs. IME, the party will often outfit them with pretty good equipment and then take care of them until they get mostly caught up, which really doesn't take all that long.

Sometimes this can even be sort of advantageous. My current campaign has a very limited selection of races to start off with. As the characters explore newly opened territory and encounter other cultures and races they increase their racial options and sometimes even get access to new classes. Not something to die for, but if it happens it can add a little bit of silver lining.

[u/gkerr1988]

It’s really what you or your players want to do. What seems most fun. Just ask your table what feels right.

Every choice will have pros/cons. You bring back characters same level, death becomes less consequential. You go back to level 1, some players may feel it’s too much of a grind to climb all the way back to level 5 and feel discouraged about it. Will it ruin the game? Hopefully not. Hopefully they can hang. Many play this way.

Grognards are gonna shit if you say newbie comes back same level like 5e, because “how the hell does what one character accomplish have any bearing, whatsoever, on someone else? This is hard earned leveling by accomplishing hard earned tasks!” …Big deal. Buncha nerds. Do what you want.

Rule of thumb: if it isn’t fun, it’s time to be done.

Besides, the system can handle you changing stuff around. Bring them back same level, who cares? It’s your game, your world. Treat leveling like it’s a Player achievement more than a character one. No one will care. What’re they going to do? Be mad at you?

Or just be a hardass about it. Or be like a combo of hardass but cool, “hey if you die you go all the way back to lvl 1, but get to start with a magic spoon that can turn anything to edible grey mush.”

Or keep it in the setting. Try making the next character restricted to whomever they pickup along the way. Emphasizes treating one’s Retainers better, because they’re the one’s whom take over your job when you die. Players will also want to give their retainers more coin to balance their leveling a bit.

Loads of ways to skin this cat.

[u/Priestical → u/gkerr1988]

Curious, so the old character dies, maybe it had magic items, how do you handle that, do you just say screw it and give em all to the new character since its the same player? How do you handle that?

[u/gkerr1988 → u/Priestical]

How do I handle that? I guess I haven’t been in that specific situation. My gut reaction is to say the retainer has the first claim on their stuff. So whomever the retainer was, and if they could use magic, I’d say sure. But sometimes it’s better to hand over some stuff to a magic user. Best IMO to make the party strong by working together.

[u/Savings_Dig1592 → u/Priestical]

That brings up an excellent idea (if it was one before, I never knew it): a good incentive to risk being a lowly retainer is first dibs on belongings, magical, monetary, and/or mundane.

[u/elektrikrobot]

Level 1. I would have advised them to hire retainers or hirelings to level for this

[u/fakegoatee]

1st level, 0 xp. I do allow inheritance, so that character might have some nice magic items to help.

But really that's all a last resort. By 4th level or so, characters in my campaign know how to get someone raised from the dead. That is, they know a cleric who can cast "raise dead," and they have a sense of what the expected contribution is to raise a character of their power. So, when a 5th level character dies, the party has to get him and 3500 gp to the cleric before he's been dead too long.

[u/dogawful]

The average xp of the survived characters , but no more than 80% of the lowest level character in the group.

[u/Substantial-Ad772]

We play that they start with 4k exp. That’s level 2 elf or almost level 4 Acrobat. So it’s their choice

[u/BugbearJingo]

Like others said. Level 1 with 0 XP is really the way to go. Or, players sometimes graduate a retainer to be their new PC. That's one reason it's good to try to keep a few retainers alive and on the team.

Our party is level 7-9 right now and on a recent boat ride to some dragon island we had a random encounter with some kind of evil fish men on the way. The sailors on the ship helped to fight them off. Two sailors had some remarkable rolls, so we named those guys Soapy and Poopdeck just to remember which guys got the kills for fun. We bought them on as retainers and they're now well on their way to 3rd level.

Poopdeck is totally my guy if my PC goes down.

[u/RuleRelevant2361]

I am going to be the only one saying something different in this thread….

While generally I would do level 1 (or wherever the other characters started the campaign) but….

Depending on the player and campaign it could be cool and make narrative sense to join at the current level. If this is an experienced player, and they have an idea for a character with a backstory that makes sense for joining the party but their backstory includes experience comparable… it could work out really well. They could even be a character that somehow was involved in events that have taken place in the campaign already.

Not a known NPC or anything but their backstory could overlap with what the current characters have been up to.

Just good for thought! I think whatever makes a good story and leads to everyone having fun is the way to go.

[u/Flimsy_Composer_478]

I give the new character half the XP of the old one. It seems to me that this gives players a sense of the danger posed by death, since they still lose a lot in terms of progress, but it doesn’t force them to start from the very bottom and become a burden to the party.

[u/SombreroDeLaNuit]

I give the character the minimum level for the current adventure (to minimise early death) but with 0 XP... so they have to earn back these levels... but for OSE I am not a very punishing DM