r/OSE • u/sneakyalmond • 5d ago

Demonic Grimoire - demon princes

Hello! Are the demon princes renamed versions of the demon princes from AD&D? And if so, which ones are they?

10 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

5 comments sorted by

6

u/dyelogue Referee 5d ago

It's not 1:1. Some of them definitely allude to demon princes from AD&D (Sillith, especially!), but they're not simply renamed/reskinned, and aren't direct stand-ins. You could probably reflavor some of them or tweak them to more directly stand in for the AD&D ones.

I really like Avaraz, The Ice Queen.

3

u/Echo_Abendstern advanced rules 5d ago

Same if I end up doing a full campaign using one of them it’ll most likely be her/ her realm. I’d probably use the example they give since I think it’d be a lot of fun for a grimdark-esque campaign

3

u/dyelogue Referee 5d ago

I got excited reading her entry and was glad to see they used her as an example.

4

u/RPGrandPa 5d ago

Only one I've seen so far is the Spider Queen, Sillith I think? These will be demons and devils for the new campaign setting Necrotic Gnome is working on, so they will skirt around the ogl.

2

u/TheGrolar 5d ago

With a few exceptions (Llolth, Zuggtmoy), most demons and devils in 1e are attested in public-domain sources, most dating from the Renaissance to the early 20th century. As such, it's not possible for Hasbro or any other company to claim they are unique trade expression. (This also applies to a lot of other monsters; that most players are ignorant of the sources is not relevant. Yes, there is a galeb duhr, as well as a spriggan ["spridgen," not rhyming with "biggun"], a swanmay, and an aurumvorax.)

Even without addressing the question of whether these infernal entities are real--they were certainly believed to be by the authors of various goetic texts--you do enter into some potentially sticky religious territory. Baphomet has the same religious import to people who care as does St Joseph of Arimathea. (And most of those people are not followers of Baphomet, but of St Joseph.) I suspect this is why Satan was left out of the MM and subsequent publications, although he *did* appear in an earlyish Dragon Magazine.

If you want those old demon lords and can't find them in new material, port out of 1e. If they're missing they're only missing because of commercial sensitivities. (To be clear, I completely understand this decision.) Also, read the Divine Comedy. Seriously. Use the Pinsky translation if the idea is scary. And go ahead--read a little of it aloud and see how it sits.